Hi all. I've lurked on this board for well over ten years now but this is the first time I've said anything.

First off, I'd like to shout-out to both Lot's Wife and Mel for their terrific posts. LW, you're a true gem and a rare intellect. Keep it up! Mel, you remind me of me when I first got out. I'd been in since I was 16 and cut the cord officially at the age of 27, but those feelings of betrayal and wasted time stayed with me for years afterward. It will get better and I'm glad you seem to have a good sense of humour about it.

I was baptized when I was sixteen, the penultimate holdout in my family of two parents and three younger brothers (only one of my brothers never took the plunge). I'm from the Maritime provinces of Canada. As an aside, I understand there's a member here whose daughter is serving in the Canada Halifax mission: your daughter has almost certainly crossed paths with my still-TBM parents.

Since I was part of a branch whose membership hovered constantly around the 50-60 member mark, there were many aspects of the faith that never showed their face to me (early morning Seminary, for instance). It wasn't until I was into college that I began to have issues with Church belief; to wit the Word Of Wisdom and the Proclamation on the Family. I consider myself very liberal, and it consistently bothered me that the Church felt the need to regulate my own behavior when I was more than capable to handle it myself. It was well and good for missionaries to come over to our house, but when I was constantly grilled on my own life and what was pleasing to God... I wouldn't answer and felt it invasive.

Questions were always coming to me. "Do you have a temple recommend?" There I was at the age of eighteen being asked if I masturbated, as if there's an eighteen year old boy anywhere on the planet that doesn't. I obtained a Patriarchal Blessing at the same time, telling me I would certainly serve a mission and that I was wise beyond my years. It was only when comparing mine to some of the other 18 year olds there (four of us if I recall correctly) that I realized they were substantially the same. "Inspired of God..." Yeah, ok. Once I was out of college and on my own in a larger city, that was when the real pressure hit. Gotta go on that mission! Get that girl who surely is waiting for me! Don't forget to tithe 10% of gross on the minimum wage you're making!

I drifted somewhat, but the real, true killer of it all came from a TBM friend of my parents' who I was particularly close to (a friendship, nothing more). We had a long discussion about marijuana legalization, and I took the view that it was beneficial. I didn't smoke it but who am I to pass judgement on those who did? His words, which I never forgot, came to me then. "The Word of Wisdom bans it, and if you don't believe in this, then you don't believe in anything the Church says or does. It's all-or-nothing."

It didn't take long for the doubts to come. I thought it was me that had the problem - it was the Church! If it's wrong about this - which it had to be - then the whole house of cards cones down. I straight up stopped going after that and a few years later had my name removed from the membership rolls.

This wasn't the end... there was an epilogue. My well meaning parents had my membership record, which had never truly been expunged, moved to the city I now live in. My fiancee, now wife, started getting calls from well meaning people inviting me to Young Single Adult functions. It wasn't easy to calm her down after that! I went to the local ward chapel with her and stood back while she let loose, furiously, on the ward president who was supposed to have insured my name had been removed. Haven't had a call since.

That's my story in a nutshell. It's been a long time getting over what was really a blip in my life, but it was during my formative years. Old wounds take longer to heal. I'm glad this group is around.

Welcome! House of cards. Yep.

Healing comes. Think of it like going from caterpillar to butterfly in life and flying free.

Caterpillars are stubby and have no wings at all. Within the chrysalis (questioning the church) the old body parts of the caterpillar are undergoing a remarkable transformation, to become the beautiful parts that make up the butterfly that will emerge.

Welcome! Thanks for sharing your story. Gotta love those all or nothing types. They're often the most helpful in pushing people out.

"The Word of Wisdom bans it, and if you don't believe in this, then you don't believe in anything the Church says or does. It's all-or-nothing." that pretty much described me to a T when I was 18. Wasn't going on a mission and the W of W was just a bunch of words that I couldn't care less about.

(anono this week)

"Don't forget to tithe 10% of gross on the minimum wage you're making!"

This is a great line that reminds me of so many years of my own life. I wish the advice would have been find yourself decent employment, get out of debt, set up your nest egg, and then be generous, or as Dave Ramsey says, "live like no one else, so that later you can live and give as no one else."

Congratulations on thinking your way out of it.

The key to remaining in is to do what they tell you to do in the temple: "bow your head and say yes". Adopt that attitude toward anything that the "Brethren" in SLC tell you to do and you will never stray from the Church.

If you insist on understanding the what, why, where, when and how of everything...you're on the road to apostasy. You're thinking too much. You're questioning too much. You're obsessing too much over what is and isn't true. According to the leaders, that's not good.

Like you, the nuttiness of the way the Word of Wisdom was interpreted and enforced was one big factor in helping me realize that the leaders couldn't be what they claimed to be (unless god himself is an illogical, nutty guy who enjoys gaslighting his children).

Sounds like you missed out on the temple experience. (As in, you missed out on experiencing first-hand one of the most ridiculous, culty, farcical aspects of Mormonism.) For me, there were tons of things that couldn't withstand scrutiny and logic tests in Mormonism. But the thing that tipped me over the edge was the temple experience. It was like I found myself in a play that was a twist on the fable of The Emperor's New Clothes. There I was doing the most idiotic things imaginable, wearing underwear that the church sold to me and wearing a goofy costume...and I was surrounded by people who were all pretending that it was sacred and sublime because they had been told that only righteous, worthy people could see how sacred and sublime it all was. It was burned into my memory. The voice of reason was screaming in the back of my mind the whole time: "WTF!!?? WTF!!??". I kept fighting the impulse to ask the person next to me why they couldn't see how silly it all was. "Are you serious? This is the special experience that has been hyped up to me since I was 5 years old? These goofy handshakes. This creepy underwear? These bloody oaths to commit suicide if I slip up and reveal the silly handshakes to someone?"

Sorry. Just thinking about it gets me into rant mode.

No worries. It's easy to get sidetracked into a rant.

I never had the temple endowments performed, but I was sealed to my family at the temple at the age of 18. It was rather odd. My brothers and myself, waiting in what appeared to be a Primary classroom, until we were trotted into a main room, and there's my father, dressed like a baker on Saint Paddy's Day. It was all I could do to keep from chuckling.

If you could have seen the other stuff that your father got up to while wearing that costume, not only would you have chuckled, you probably would have ended up rolling on the floor laughing hysterically and, eventually, having to go to the hospital to get stitches--especially if your father got his "endowment" before 1990 (when they eliminated the bloody-oath pantomimes and the part where you have to hug a mystery man through a curtain and whisper your super-secret "new name" in his ear. (As it turns out, everyone participating in a particular session gets the same super-secret new name.)

I still can't believe that they've been able to keep the temple gag going for so long. It's so patently ridiculous.

At the time, it was all "part of the mystery". Today of course, I'm well aware of the idiocy that goes on. Fyi, that happened in 1998 at the Toronto temple - at the time, the closest Canadian temple.

Here's a howler for you. My uncle is a whatever degree Master Mason, as was his father before him (my paternal grandfather), and to my knowledge, his father too (my great-grandfather.) When I was younger, I asked my dad if I could ever join the Masons, knowing that it was something of a family tradition. His response? "They don't like Mormons, so no." If my father only knew that he's essentially a Mason himself...

"Are you serious? This is the special experience that has been hyped up to me since I was 5 years old? These goofy handshakes. This creepy underwear? These bloody oaths to commit suicide if I slip up and reveal the silly handshakes to someone?"

Soon after I married my wife, but before I did any research into my wife's religion, I was approached by the ward mission leader after an investigator's class. After some friendly chit-chat about who I was and how I came to be in class that day, he asked if I had any questions about what my wife may have already told me about Mormonism.

Well, I'm a bit of a smart ass and it is against my nature to give a straight answer if I see an opportunity for whimsy.

Thinking that I would come across as being good-naturedly over-the-top, I said, "Nah, my wife filled me in on all the blood oaths and secret handshakes."

He suddenly got real serious and, after a long pause, said, "It's sacred, not secret. You're not supposed to get the meat until you've had the milk."

I knew immediately that I had crossed a line and may have gotten my wife in some hot water, so I told him I was just kidding and that my wife had actually told me very little what Mormons believe and practice.

He was mollified, but it wasn't until I started doing my research that I learned that my attempt at humor was nothing compared to the reality of what goes on in the temple.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2019 11:22AM by GregS.

You are so lucky it was just a "Blip." As many on here my bip lasted 30 years, a mission, marriage, three children, and a seperation where I loose sleep about the emotional damage done to my children on a weekly/daily basis. I am glad you got out early.

I say go to the function, but don't hold back. Hand out copies of the CES letter, testify over a pot luck dinner the happiness you feel after realized it was all horrible, while thanking them for the invite.

There will be a note in your file, and the invites will eventually stop, and you might help someone!

That was in 2007 or 2008. Too bad the CES letter wasn't in existence then, because it would have been terrific ammunition.

I'm sorry to hear of your experience. Being here (but silent) for a decade, I've read some sad stories. It makes me happy I'm out, and redoubles my attempts to convince my now-retired parents that they should get out too.

What's worse is that I was so close to leaving when I was 17. But I was bombared by well meaning support. My mom coming to me with tears saying this is the saddest she's been in her life.

This group is glad you are around... and not asquare.

Welcome-

M@t

Welcome. :)

Hi Wandering K,

Thanks for sharing your story. I loved that scene in "Grosse Pointe Blank" where the hired assassins say "first time caller, long time listener"-- hilarious. In case you were giving a shout out to that great flick.

I am always so sad when I read stories like yours where people were kept in so long from pressure and guilt though they knew it was hooey, and time to leave.

Thanks Wally also, I am SO glad I never no way no how got sucked into any Temple prep or visits!!! The more stories I read the more glad that I am!!!

I was, and good on you for picking up on it! That movie coloured my view of John Cusack for a long time.

wanderingkolobian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was...

Yeah, John Cusack was great in that and there were some priceless lines. Great movies when they didn't just depend on CGI effects!

I remember that crazy time when it all collapsed. Then the realization that it’s not me, it’s them. According to everything I believed before, it was supposed to be me. Nope, definitely them. I checked and re-checked. I know I’m not crazy. You’re not crazy either. You jumped the ship of fools.

babyloncansuckit Wrote:

> I know I’m not crazy.

You're right about that, Babylon. They do everything they can to make it seem like we are the crazy ones. :(

WanderingKolobian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LW, you're
> a true gem and a rare intellect. Keep it up! Mel,
> you remind me of me when I first got out. I'd been
> in since I was 16 and cut the cord officially at
> the age of 27, but those feelings of betrayal and
> wasted time stayed with me for years afterward.

I agree RfM is much benefited by Lot's Wife. She's the salt of the earth.

"feelings of betrayal and wasted time"

These are a part of what I'm trying to recover from since Mormon nonsense and conditioning started for me from before I was born.

Elder B,
>
> These are a part of what I'm trying to recover
> from since Mormon nonsense and conditioning
> started for me from before I was born.

Ouch! Can’t imagine how hard it was to overcome that!!!

Wandering,

Glad you are here. We’ll all get through this together.

:). :). :)

Mel

Welcome, WK!

>>I thought it was me that had the problem - it was the Church! If it's wrong about this - which it had to be - then the whole house of cards cones down.

I went through the same thinking process when I left the Catholic church in my teens. My initial problem was with the Catholic church's ban on most forms of birth control (which most Catholics ignore, but the ban remains.) My reasoning at the time was that birth control was a gift from a loving God to women. It was a blessing to women to be able to avoid undesired pregnancies. There were other issues as time went on, but that was the first one.

This introduced me to the idea that I could rely on my own moral reasoning to make good decisions.

I also disliked the idea that I had to constantly examine the state of my soul in order to determine if I was good enough and pure enough. I decided that was not a healthy or productive way to live a life. I came to the conclusion that I was "good enough." I decided not to sweat the small things. It took years to rid myself of the destructive, Catholic-induced guilt.

The whole idea of confessing to a priest now seems so foreign to me. Either make it good with whomever you have wronged, or resolve to do better. I don't need someone to mediate on my behalf.

And of course, reading about the priest abuse scandals, and the subsequent cover-up by church authorities, has left me with the feeling that churches are human endeavors with a range of human behavior, both good and bad. For me, the Catholic church at the present time has lost nearly any claim to moral authority. I still admire the charity work that they do, but that's about it. I will never again hand over my thinking to any church. I may at times listen to people who have a spiritual message, but in the end, I will use my own good judgment.