So they can have a child together and create a family of their own.

The egg donor was one of their aunts.

Mazel tov, gentlemen !

The precious little girl they welcomed into the world is named Uma Louise.

The happiness on their faces is immeasurable. ❤️

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/30/us/woman-gives-birth-to-granddaughter/index.html

Rainbows and flowers
bring little girl showers.
Their hearts are all aflutter
as they cuddle and coo her.

The grandmother is 61 years old! Brave lady. What we women do for the love of our children. These young men were ready to be parents and their family was able to help them make that a reality. Simply amazing.

the cult messed me up enough but i can't even imagine what i would be like if i was a baby girl being raised by 2 daddies.

anybody else feel this way?

I've been to shul with the most loving gay couple who is raising twin infant boys. They are adorable little fellas. The dads are over the moon with them.

The hardest part of this whole thing for me is wondering how the 61 year old mother was able to pull it off so well? I'm 60. With my health issues, I don't believe that I'd be a viable candidate to carry a child even if it were placed in vitro like this precious little cargo was.

Women's bodies weren't designed to carry babies into our old/er age. But she must have been in good enough physical shape to have been able to and I'm sure she's not complaining because it's as much her grandbaby as it is their daughter. And actually niece too, since one of the boys aunts donated the egg.

Jesus F. Christ! I'm on Amyjo's side on this issue!! And it's still March 31st!!

I don't know where you live forevergone but I'm glad I don't

live there. I can imagine seeing this happen because I do see it

happen all the time. I've never seen a more loving and caring

family than two gay men or two lesbian women raising children.

Its a shame your place of birth didn't allow you that same

opportunity. My daughter is a lesbian so its a common occurance

for me to know gay and lesbian families with beautiful happy

children. Too bad there are still some people who have no idea

about this. because they live in a world crowded with the narrow

mind set you have mentioned.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2019 11:02PM by saucie.

saucie...why do you attack me? I didn't attack anyone but stated I would not want to have two daddies. Is it OK for me to feel that way?

You did ask for comments anent your perspective regarding two daddies. Your assumption that having two daddies would have to be worse than your unspecified situation is grossly homophobic.

so you think i am homophobic because i could not handle 2
daddies? i guess i asked for it, just didn't expect what i got.
good bye to everyone here and good riddance to me i am sure.

What is the meaning of Sodom and Gomorrah?

Synonyms. two cities in the Bible that were destroyed by God as punishment for the sexual behavior of the people who lived there. People sometimes say that a place is like Sodom and Gomorrah as a way of saying that they are very shocked by people's sexual behavior in that place.

Forever gone?
Not agreeing with your position is not construed as attacking you. I don't agree with you and I voiced it. It is not an attack
its a difference of opinion . Capice???

this one didn't work out too well. but i am sure families with gay parents are just like other families.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/06/us/hart-family-crash-inquest-searches/index.html

Hey 4evergone,

I know what you mean having grown up in the Morridor and homophobic Idaho. Honestly I didn't know (really know,) about gay people or homosexuality before I moved away to California by my senior year of high school. ETA: The Morridor of Idaho has changed a LOT in the years since I moved away. There is a sub-culture there now of LGBT that wasn't there before, and many of them are from the Mormon community. Two of them that I know of were my cousins, both now deceased. One died suddenly in her 30's from an aneurysm. The other at 15 from suicide after she had been bullied by some kids at her high school, and she received no support from her school teachers over her being gay. Her mother, a closer cousin by relation, moved to Boise following her daughter's death to help propel passage of laws that will protect children in the future. She ended up getting hired by Idaho State to become an advocate for its civil rights agency. Idaho still has a long way to go.

It has taken me a lifetime to undo some of that thinking about gays.

My children grew up in New York state, where they were taught to be accepting and open minded of LGBT lifestyles. It has never really been an issue for them *except* during their early years here prior to our leaving Mormonism.

It *is* a lot of unpacking, but you can do it to become more accepting and tolerant. I've let my children know that I'll love them regardless of their sexual orientation, and will follow through with that should one ever decide they are other than hetero.

It's the way families are meant to be IMO, if they are to stay families ie, need to reinforce and foster bonds of love and community. Reading an article like this about this particular family what I find striking is how MUCH love they have for each other. It takes a lot of sacrificial love to do something like that for the mother of one of those boys, and now the grandmother of their daughter.

In TSCC that family would be excommunicated. What a difference.

That in itself puts churches such as TSCC on watch lists like the Southern Poverty Law Centers hate lists because of the harm it has done to gay individuals within its walls.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2019 03:49AM by Amyjo.

no one here seems to understand that all i said is that i would not want to be that kid with 2 daddies. guess that makes me the oddball. wow. what a different world i am from

All we did was assume that your "two daddies" comment was homophobic.

Show us the error of our ways.

And on this type of forum, going to the old testament for support of a stand against biblically nonsanctioned sex is not going to get you much in the way of support.

All we did was assume that your "two daddies" comment was homophobic.

ASSUME at least is the right word. you can assume i wouldn't want 2 mommies either.

Wherever you're going with this, could you please hurry up and get there? Maybe there's something for me to learn!

[edited]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2019 07:01PM by Amyjo.

>> ".... i can't even imagine what i would be like if i was a baby girl being raised by 2 daddies.

anybody else feel this way?"

>> "ASSUME at least is the right word. you can assume i wouldn't want 2 mommies either."

Since all you can do is imagine what it would be like, you are also making an assumption. To express that it would be more damaging to you than the experience you had in the church implies there is a negative connotation associated with being raised by gay parents. Because you see it as a negative influence, based on nothing more than your assumption.....it stands to reason that others would see it as a homophobic response. Its an assumption based on no real experience or documented research.....just how you "imagine" it.

People are merely making assumptions about you based on your own assumptions of being raised by gay parents.

And you did ask if anyone else felt the same way, so why be surprised when people reply and say they don't, and and then tell you why? At least many replies included that persons direct experience with knowing and observing gay parents raising kids.....where as you didn't.

What is it that causes you to feel like being raised by gay parents would be a bad experience?

for fear of getting their heads lopped off.

But, yes, it is weird. The norm is a father and a mother. The world is, unfortunately upside down and people don't even want to see it.

I can't picture myself in a gay loving relationship, it took me years to be able to become more accepting of it as a lifestyle. Which I'm still in process because of the times we live in. It's not so black and white to me. Isn't what really matters are the fitness of the couple to be parents and to co-parent? That seems more fundamental than their sexual orientation.

If, on the other hand, a gay parent is trapped living a lie in a straight marriage, that would lead to an unhealthier outcome than being gay inside a gay marriage. Domestic abuse rates are statistically the same for hetero or gay couples.

Growing up in a loving, healthy environment is the precedent for raising healthy children. Healthy families are no longer dominated by father mother households. Many more single parent families today than ever before, gay parents whether married or not, grandparents raising grandchildren is also a reoccurring theme of our times.

We evolved as a society. For better or worse. You don"t have to like something you don't approve of. You are as entitled to your view as others are. It's just the hands of time don't turn backward. The world we inhabit today continues to evolve at a rapid pace. I doubt it will be recognizable to any one of us in 2-3 generations from now, if less. Most of us won't be around by say, the end of this century, to see all the changes in store.

Changes all the time. In the Information Age, it is going to at an ever more rapid pace. I try not to fear the future, but do wonder what the future holds.

Artificial Intelligence has already replaced human. Kind of scary, huh? Maybe that "One World Government" isn't going to be a Communist society after all. Just one governed by AI.

>
> Artificial Intelligence has already
> replaced human. Kind of scary, huh?
> Maybe that "One World Government"
> isn't going to be a Communist society
> after all. Just one governed by AI.
>

"regular" or human intelligence can't compete with AI when it comes to speed of computing. Right now the only thing going for the human brain is convenience. We can each carry one in our head and each one requires the energy of a dim light bulb to operate. Supercomputers are big and they consume a lot of energy. Cut the power and the AI is immediately useless. Give human beings access to the occasional Big Mac, fries and diet Coke, and the human's brain will keep on 'calculating.'

What struck me most is the notion that one AI will triumph... Sure this may come to pass, but it won't be based on computing power or "knowledge" (whatever that is!), rather it will be based on defenses and attack weaponry.

I think AIs will end up being riddled with AI angst and that they'll congregate with the AIs they can get along with.

What will really be cool is when the first AI prophet starts trying to spread the first AI religion.

I remember seeing gay Mormons, decades ago,* in a gay pride parade with signs, "Family Is What You Make It." Wow, if they had any idea...


*I'm so old I remember seeing NAMBLA in the parades!

I hate it when this happens.

Pretty wild stuff.

Amazing! I think this is GREAT! This child will be LOVED, WANTED. That is what I've seen with gay couples. In order to have children, they have to go to extraordinary measures.

My cousin died when she was 37 leaving behind 6 children. Her sister is a lesbian and she and her partner have watched out for the children. Their father remarried within a month after she died and the new wife didn't like the kids. They ended up living with relatives everywhere.

In fact, this lesbian couple took my brother's horse in and are taking care of him as my brother needed to find somewhere else for him to live and his mother had just died. They have property and 4 horses and they took this horse in and ask NOTHING in return.

This will become more and more common. Thankfully, word is getting out that there are so many gays. It isn't uncommon anymore. Thankfully people accept my children. We have quite an interesting life because of this situation. My son's friends love his dad. Most of their friends love their dad. My son's friends go on vacation with my ex.

This child is already so loved and will continue to be.

A German grandmother gave birth to her own granddaughter. New horizons in consanguinity, I guess.

https://www.ketv.com/article/gretna-grandma-gives-birth-to-granddaughter/26991262

I tried to make sense of some polygamous genealogy by diagramming the relationships, and got helplessly lost. This sounds about the same. "I'm My Own Grandpa" and all that."

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A German grandmother gave birth to her own
> granddaughter. New horizons in consanguinity, I
> guess.
>
> https://www.ketv.com/article/gretna-grandma-gives-
> birth-to-granddaughter/26991262
>
> I tried to make sense of some polygamous genealogy
> by diagramming the relationships, and got
> helplessly lost. This sounds about the same. "I'm
> My Own Grandpa" and all that."

Haha! It would be fun to track Joseph Smith's DNA and see how many bastard children he fathered.

Wasn't there at least one that is documented?

Remember, there is no such thing as a bastard child.

Just illegitimate parents.

I'm surprised younger folks weren't used in getting the baby. A family that without modern science, would never exist.

It would seem to place the grandmother at a greater health risk. I wonder if the same is true for the embryo and forming infant during gestation to be growing inside the body of a 61 year old?

I think it all depends on the health of the person. It wasn't her egg of course. I've seen many women in their 30s who aren't all that healthy and are carrying babies. I'm much healthier at 61 than I was at 38 or even 48, but definitely not healthy enough to be carrying a baby.

My sister wasn't able to get pregnant for a long time and she wanted one of us to carry a baby for her and I just couldn't do it as I would want to raise the child myself. Not because she'd be a bad mother, but the baby would seem to be mine. Like I said, I wish I could be that selfless. What a gift! (My sister did eventually have a child and he is the JOY of her life. He's 21 now.)

Wait what? They used a guy's sperm to impregnate his aunt's eggs, and then got a sixty something to carry the baby? Never mind the LGBT aspect, those two bits sound unethical.

I would conjecture the sperm that came from one of the domestic spouses went to an aunt of the other domestic spouse. So therefore there would be no 'inbreeding' generationally that coud lead to genetic disorders or disease.

Two unrelated men marry. Only one aunt donates her eggs to the unrelated partner. In turn, the volunteer grandma is the carrier for the baby to term. It wouldn't matter which side she is because she is neither sperm or egg donor. The blood match though I wonder does that need to be in harmony with in vitro fertilization treatments?

It all went well for them, so they must feel blessed and fortunate and just part of a bigger, happier family.

It would have saved money on the surrogate's fees also, since they are familial members and volunteering their services for free (with visitation rights now that the little girl is born.)

Someday this child may want to know who his/hers/its biological parents are for purposes of health and genetic testing. Could be complicated.

It won't be hard to do a family history on them. They're related through marriage.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2019 05:56PM by Amyjo.

Do you really think they would use partner 1’s aunt and partner 1’s sperm? Do a little thinking here....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2019 01:48PM by jazzskeeter.

This story just warms my heart. I have some gay friends who are raising two kids, a brother and a sister who started out as foster kids. In fact, the boy was two when he was placed with them and when the mother delivered the little girl, they placed her in the same home to be with her brother. But is was supposed to be temporary foster care.

As time went on, the mother could not get it together or stay out of jail. They'd had the kids about 2 years when they decided to start challenging the system in this fucked-up conservative Southern state and go for adoption. They were legally married, but our state didn't recognize it. But we were all so nervous thinking they may have to give up these kids eventually when they were the only parents the kids really ever knew.

Luckily, Obergefell happened about that time and right after the legislative session ended, so they had months to work on it before the next session met to try and limit the rights of married same-sex couples. And it helped that the birth family could see what a great family they had and put their support behind them getting the kids.

What a happy day it was the day they were able to sign the adoption papers. The kids were 3 and 4 and they'd been constrained by so many foster care rules all that time. It was so neat to have a big party and be able to take pictures of all of them together and no kids could ever possibly ask for better parents or a more loving, committed family.

Anyway, what made me want to post this was that a few days ago one of the dad's posted on facebook that the little girl (now 5 years old), came out of the bathroom and yelled at the top of her lungs, "can you boys remember to put the seat down! There is a lady who lives in this house!!"

I thought of the naysayers who make rude comments about two men raising a girl, and I just laughed. She will be fine. More than fine. This girl in the article the OP references will also be great. She will also be the most popular girl around with a daddy who is a hairdresser. They have a great extended family and that baby will be so loved. And people like Russ and Dallin can just take their centuries-old set-in-stone ideas of what a family has to look like and shove it up their century-old asses.

Bwahahahaha, The horrors of being a girl living with two dads!!! <smile,smile,smile>

That is so sweet about the little girl making that quip.

Kids can be so darned funny and adorable.

I have known gay couples and individuals and found them to be good people, no different than anyone else. I admit that I have no understanding of same sex attraction and therefor make it a point not to pass a negative judgement against it. I do however believe that perhaps nature knows best and they have bucked nature with this one. Same sex attraction isn't bad per-Se, just not the ideal.

Gay parented families can be plenty ideal. Most would beat the hell I grew up with.

Many of the finest people I have ever had the privilege of knowing have been either gay or lesbian, ether single or in committed relationships. I did see this story on the news and everyone involved, including the grandmother who carried the child, were obviously so thrilled and full of joy and love for this baby. What a blessing for this child to be welcomed into the world by two very loving and devoted parents :)

I think this is a wonderful story for all concerned. No doubt we will see more stories of gay couples and their families/friends. going to these, and similar lengths, to allow loving gay couples become parents. A cause celebre, IMO.

Rachel Maddow is one of my favorite newscasters on cable news.

She is openly gay, and in a monogamous longterm marriage to the woman she loves. She said it was love at first sight when they met (for her anyway.)

It seems because of her career she made a conscious choice not to have children.

But, if she were to be a mom (ie, in a home with two "mommies,") I think any child in that home, or children, would be some of the luckiest kids on the planet. Because she would be a loving mom, funny, intelligent, and well-rounded.

I would say the same for Anderson Cooper. He's a lot the same way. I watch Rachel's show more often. They're both brilliant. I just find her show more dynamic and spot on to the news of the day.