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Posted by: camjom ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 12:29PM

New Church Handbook wording...

"The interpretation of "hot drinks" in the Word of Wisdom is not only meant to be interpreted as tea and coffee. Members should use their best judgement in determining what is best for their bodies. Tea and coffee will no longer keep members from having a valid temple recommend."

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Posted by: angela ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 12:31PM

SERIOUS???

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Posted by: CrispingPin ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 12:31PM

Can you share your source for this?

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Posted by: camjom ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 12:33PM

Just got a screen shot from my Brother who is in a bishopric. Told me I am close to not being an apostate anymore.

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Posted by: chprro ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 01:58PM

I don't buy it. Currently in a Bishopric, just synced both mobile and online versions of handbook. Neither has changed verbiage regarding coffee or tea. Post a pic if you can.

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Posted by: camjom ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 02:15PM


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Posted by: Finally Free! ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 02:58PM

Not sure where you're getting your info from, but I checked the website listed below and it states:

"21.3.11
"Word of Wisdom
The only official interpretation of “hot drinks” (Doctrine and Covenants 89:9) in the Word of Wisdom is the statement made by early Church leaders that the term “hot drinks” means tea and coffee.

"Members should not use any substance that contains illegal drugs. Nor should members use harmful or habit-forming substances except under the care of a competent physician."
https://www.lds.org/study/manual/handbook-2-administering-the-church/selected-church-policies-and-guidelines/selected-church-policies?lang=eng#title70

In other words, nothing about a temple recommend at all.

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Posted by: lurking in ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 04:41PM

From OP's screenshot: "'The interpretation of "hot drinks" in the Word of Wisdom is not only meant to be interpreted as tea and coffee.'"

That statement would indicate that MORE than just tea and coffee are now included under WoW "hot drink" restrictions (hot chocolate, Postum, etc.).

But then the screenshot continues: "'Members should use their best judgement in determining what is best for their bodies.'"

That statement would mean the entire letter of the WoW is out the window and the restrictions are all subjective/conscience-based now--totally contradicting the previous sentence!

That being said, I would love it if this claim were real. I think it would really be a "testimony shaker."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2019 04:43PM by lurking in.

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Posted by: SixAM ( )
Date: April 05, 2019 03:09AM

The first part of it seems to indicate tea and coffee are still included.

The latter part seems to indicate to me that anything else they want to abstain from is up to their own judgement.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 12:50PM

What if you heat your alcoholic beverages? Still good to go...to the temple?

And besides, it's not like there are angels guarding the hen house! When, ever, did ghawd keep an unworthy recommend holder out?

Certainly it's clear that the church uses the temple to shake down the members for the Holy 10%. If Lucifer coughed up his 10% they tell him, "Look, we're not happy about this, but you can go on in. But FYI, you may see some unflattering pictures of yourself...but other than that, have a good time."

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 12:55PM

Some members have been trying to pass herbal teas by the Mormon thought police for years.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 01:09PM

In East Asia herbal teas have been permitted for decades.

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Posted by: Finally Free! ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 01:20PM

In Korea, when I was on my mission in 92-94, the rule was no Black Tea, no coffee, everything else was perfectly fine and often encouraged. The Mission President's wife constantly served tea. Pretty much every beverage I drank except juice and soda was some form of tea. You couldn't even get straight water at a restaurant, it was always barley tea.

That, of coarse, didn't keep my parents who came over to pick me up so they could see Korea from all but gasping in horror at the the thought of hot water that had been steeped with barley. They worried about "the appearance of evil" and all that. I wonder what they'll think of this policy change.

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Posted by: fossilman ( )
Date: April 05, 2019 01:01PM

In Japan, we were allowed to drink mugicha (barley tea), just not ocha (black tea). People would often offer us cold mugicha in the summer as we tracked through neighborhoods. Just tasted like burnt water to me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2019 01:01PM by fossilman.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 12:56PM

Pot calling the kettle white and delightsome?

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Posted by: stillanon ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 01:52PM

Ha!

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Posted by: Roy G Biv ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 01:00PM

This makes sense. The church is losing members. Temple attendance is down. Coffee and tea prevent you from getting a recommend. What better way to quickly increase temple attendance than by allowing coffee and tea?

What next? Beer?

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Posted by: CrispingPin ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 01:43PM

D&C 89:17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

Barley for mild drinks? Sounds like beer to me.

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Posted by: Just Wonderin ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 02:03PM

Light beer, at least.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 03:21PM

How about this?

https://learn.kegerator.com/how-to-make-hop-tea/

My coworker is a home brewer and brought me some to try. I like it better than beer.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 01:10PM

I doubt this will be enough to keep people awake during sacrament meeting.

Will they exempt amphetamines?

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 01:28PM

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Will they exempt amphetamines?

You just need a Mormon doctor's prescription.

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Posted by: ConcernedCitizen 2.0 ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 03:03PM

...or, just put a Vivarin under each eye.

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: April 05, 2019 12:05AM

I never regretted sleeping through any church meetings.

Some of my worst experiences were when, after an excellent night's sleep, I went to church meetings and found myself unavoidably wide awake and alert the whole time. Pure misery. Pure torture.

I think the only reason the LSD Church has been as successful as it has been is that most of the members are sleep walking through life and not really paying attention to details. My guess is that the leaders know this and probably pump aerosolized midazolam through the ventilation systems during church meetings.

But they also use hypnotic techniques for televised meetings. I remember as a child watching general conference on TV and always being out cold just 10 minutes in...and then not regaining full consciousness for days afterward.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 01:30PM

“Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...well I have others.” Groucho Marx, and, apparently Russ Nelson.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 01:32PM

He needs another wife, so if you don't like one you might like the other...

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: April 05, 2019 06:03AM

I have standards, you see, and I refused to be part of any organization that would let someone like me be a member.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: April 05, 2019 10:12AM


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Posted by: gemini ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 01:51PM

Is this for real???? So, my kids might stop giving me the stink eye when they see my coffee maker? Hey, I know what I can get them for Christmas! heh, heh, heh.

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: April 05, 2019 12:11AM

I find myself getting up extra early to have some coffee or tea by myself. I just got tired of the stink eye and awkwardness that they displayed whenever they saw me drinking coffee. And I knew that it was futile to point out that my unsweetened black coffee was a healthier (and cheaper) beverage than the fruit punch and chocolate milk they had in their refrigerator. The insanity can be tiring.

I have a Mormon brother who goes through cases of soda pop every month. Maybe I can get him to switch to coffee (and add some years to his life in the process).

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 01:58PM

Back in the 1970s, drinking coffee and tea was not a deal breaker. Leaders would advise people to not partake, but they didn't cut people off from a temple recommend. It wasn't until the 1980's that drinking hot drinks (yeah, should have been hot cocoa too!) became a quick way to judge personal worthiness.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 03:17PM

I was still active until the late 1970s. It was certainly a deal breaker in my corner of Mormonism, and had been for as far back as I can remember.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 03:24PM

When I was a kid in the 70s my grandmother's coffee was seen as equivalent to alcohol.

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Posted by: exminion ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 04:01PM

So...I need this spelled out for me. Is this an April Fool's joke, or can a coffee drinker get a temple recommend?

My TBM mother drank 2 cups of coffee every morning, for her heart. It was actually recommended by her doctor. She carefully hid her coffee from the other Mormons. She and my father did not go to the temple, because they did not believe in all that. Of course, the cult accepted their tithing, and their volunteer time as RS and Primary President, and gospel doctrines teacher.

Do you mean that all my mother's secrecy, angst, and self-loathing was for NOTHING?

In the 1980's, before I was divorced and lost all of my social status, I went to lunch with some TBM women who were married to Mormon big-wigs. You would know who they are, if I named them. These wives ordered diet coke, iced tea, and de-caf coffee. I had just barely moved to Utah, from California, and I was shocked!

In our RS, after I was there for 10 years or so, I gradually discovered that over half the women were on some sort of psycho drug--Ambien is the most popular right now, Prozac, Valium, Zoloft, Imipramine, and what is that one for bi-polar disorder? There's not much mention of these substances in the WOW, and I think I know why.

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Posted by: Finally Free! ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 04:06PM

It's not clear where the OP got their information, but according to the Church's website, coffee and tea are still a deal breaker:

Look for section 21.3.11
https://www.lds.org/study/manual/handbook-2-administering-the-church/selected-church-policies-and-guidelines/selected-church-policies?lang=eng#title70

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Posted by: Levi ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 04:56PM

I ran it past an exmo friend who has a very close, VERY TBM friend currently in a bishopric. He checked the "Leadership" version of this and it remains exactly the same as the old, however, he did say that it has been rumored to be announced in GenCon, but just rumor.

I'll believe it when I see it.

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 11:38PM

In one sense, it's would represent a very welcome triumph of common sense over unexamined dogma.

They've repudiated other lunatic policies of past prophets before. But the coffee and tea prohibition has become virtually synonymous with being Mormon.

I made the mistake many years ago of telling a colleague (in an office where there are zero Mormons) that I had been raised in the Mormon church. I also told him on numerous occasions that I was no longer a Mormon and had dropped it in my early twenties.

But for years, every time he saw me drinking coffee, he would say something like: "I thought your people couldn't drink coffee." (Lesson learned: Don't tell anyone you're a former Mormon unless you have to. The word "former" goes in one ear and instantly out the other. The word "Mormon" goes into their head and echoes and reverberates in there forever.)

If this really goes through, I think a lot of devout Mormons will be confused and will feel that confusion intensely in the very core of their being. They'll put on the mask and pretend that it's all great. But I think they'll start going nuts inside. Giving themselves self-congratulations and massive virtue points just for not drinking coffee and tea has been a deeply ingrained part of the mindset of the typical temple-worthy Mormon. They literally won't know what to think when they see other people--especially active Mormons--drinking coffee and tea.

In the past, I remember hearing about BYU professors being snitched on for being spotted drinking coffee off campus and getting in trouble with the administration. What will the snitches do if it becomes officially okay to drink coffee?

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Posted by: bettydee ( )
Date: April 04, 2019 11:32PM

The Mormon Cooperation most likely purchased or heavily invested in a Columbian Coffee Bean Plantation.

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: April 05, 2019 12:20AM

"I give-a you one...okay two...coffee plantations in South America. What-a you gonna give-a to me?"

"Well, sir Pope, your excellency, we will give you those three golden temple baptismal fonts on 12-oxen bases, fully converted into jacuzzis, with the whole works...bubble dispensers, massage jets, aroma therapy infusers and whirlpool features, just as you requested in that e-mail last month."

"Fine! Molto bene! Molto bene! We have a deal!"

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Posted by: wowbagger ( )
Date: April 05, 2019 08:49AM

Fake

Even the Mormons would spell « judgment » right ( unless they have suddenly decided to labour under the challenges of honouring British spelling norms)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2019 08:53AM by wowbagger.

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Posted by: anon 4 now ( )
Date: April 05, 2019 12:48PM

Yes, fake.

They would not capitalize the word "coffee" in the middle of a sentence like that. Rookie mistake.

Nice try, OP.

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Posted by: Hockeyrat ( )
Date: April 05, 2019 01:33PM

I think of hot drinks back in Joe’s day as hot toddy’s and other hot alcoholic drinks popular then.
I remember seeing a herb called “ Mormon tea” at the GNC Store in the mall. I also remember a few members who drank decaf tea and coffee

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