If a cluster B-person does not change, and perform malignant hot-cold emotional treatments year after year and consistently keeps moving the goal post in a relationship, why should anybody stay and try to make any difference in that persons life?

It seems to me almost impossible to solve this. Do people who stay in such relationships feel that they need too solve such complex problem so that they feel that they make things end up right at some moment?

Is self-rightousness some kind of problem in this kind of trauma bonded relationship?

Like the relationship, and like everything in their life, it's all about the Cluster B person. It's not about the victim, at all.

Cluster B's are master manipulators. They are life-long, practice-perfect liars. They know how to evoke pity from others. They easily take on the role of the underdog. They know how to make others feel guilty. They blame everyone else.

They take advantage of good people, so self-righteousness does come into play. I think people of principle stay in bad marriages, because they believe in marriage. IMO, spouses of Cluster B's are more stubborn and gullible and self-deluding than they are self-righteous.

My Mormon parents and their cult raised me up and groomed me to be the victim of sociopaths. My father spanked me for every little thing. My brother was allowed to beat me, whenever he felt like it, even with my parents looking on. My parents blamed me for my brother's assaults. They also kept saying that my brother loved me very much.

The Mormon religion is abusive, especially towards children and women. When my husband started beating me, I stayed in our temple marriage, according to the dictates of the church. I was not self-righteous--quite the contrary. I thought I was making too many mistakes, or was flawed in some way, to "deserve" such beatings. When nothing I said or did make any difference in his behavior, I started to study about wife-beaters. This was back in the day when people didn't talk about "domestic abuse". I read about sociopaths and psychopaths in the medical journals, and learned that there was a very low "cure" rate, like, around 2%. Those men who stopped beating thier wife (or wife beating her husband) still retained their Narcissism, their bad attitude,lack of respect for others, anger issues, and all the other warped personality traits that go along with the clusters.

I also talked to people in my ex-husband's past, which he and his family had covered up. He had seriously injured his sister. His Mormon-employed stake president father had beaten him and his brothers regularly with a stick, and also had beaten his mother. My ex had also tortured animals. I didn't know this before we were married.

People who stay in Cluster B relationships certainly have false hopes.

I have one thing to say to people who are involved with a Cluster B: "You need more information! Then, get help in getting away from that person."

There is probably nothing you can do to alter the situation, except to leave, to rescue the children, if there are any, and perhaps to warn others.

I used several kinds of birth control all at once, to make sure I never had a child with my abusive ex-husband. He ended up almost killing me, and I had to flee, barefoot, to the police, to save my life. While he was locked away, temporarily, I got restraining orders for me and to protect my parents and sister, moved out of our apartment, and to another city, far away, and changed my name. I had been supporting my ex, but he quickly found another victim, in another country, and one year later (the divorce waiting-period) he married her in the temple. He beat her, too, and was divorced again. Later, he was in jail for assault and battery, in a foreign country, and I felt safer, as time went by. I still have PTSD, though.

I have a feeling that your first two questions are rhetorical questions. You already know the answer.

To answer the third question, it's not about the victim or their weaknesses, it's all about the abusive Cluster B.

Hello Valium and Pepsi! Awesome feedback.

Yeah, I was a rethorical.

Just needed to triangulate with someone or anyone who know what I am talking aobut.

I am in a life-situation right now when my life has emotionally stabilised after decades of emotional chaos and I do not feel the need to keep the dynamics of traumatic bonding in my life. But I am still a bit disoriented on the issue about how I should handle people that still are in my life.

My family keeps doing it - this trauma bonding . especially two of my siblings. Sometimes it feel just as fun as catching the flu. Seriously.

It feels awkward to have siblings in their 40 and 50s baiting and dog-whistling me to get emotional reactions.

In some way I understand that they want it all to go back to how it where before the change in my life. They want dominance and control, if tehy can get me angry or unhappy it is like they feel safe and calm. Personally I think they are insane.

"They want dominance and control, if tehy can get me angry or unhappy it is like they feel safe and calm. Personally I think they are insane."

That's it, Alfonso!

My older brother never stopped abusing me, except when we got older, and I got big enough to defend myself or out-run him or threaten his fake reputation as being a good Mormon boy. His abuse turn into verbal threats and sexual innuendos, breaking my belongings (by accident) trying to spy on me while I was dressing, and stealing my underwear. I never had the courage go against my parents' wishes and to put him out of my life completely--until he started pedophile behavior with our nieces. By then, I was married, and had my own children to protect! The break had to be complete. I tried attending a family reunion, when he was there, and he grabbed me in the back hallway, and put his hands all over me. I was 32. My little girls were 4 and 7, and they said my brother spied on them, when they were in the bathroom. My parents denied this, even when my mom found my daughters' missing underwear in my brother's suitcase.

Since my brother was living at my parents' house all of his life, I would invite my parents to fly over here, and visit me at my house. We took some vacations together, while my brother stayed home.

Sometimes it's the right thing to put these sick-o's out of your life, and it can be very, very hard to do. The sociopath will convince your family that you are the villian. Your own happiness and peace of mind comes first! If there are children to protect, they come first, too.

Down the road, your family will understand what your siblings are doing to you. Most sociopaths end up shooting themselves in the foot--or getting shot by someone else, like what happened to Joseph Smith.

A few years later, my brother had several lawsuits of "sexual harassment" filed against him, he lost. My parents still maintained his innocence, but they stopped criticizing me and my children. Our two TBM nieces are much older, now, and they are having psychological problems. They are pretty, and straight, I think, and they refuse to date, and have vowed to never get married.

You have my sympathy, Alphonso. I'm making a big deal out of this, because damage is being done to you! When those siblings come in the front door, you disappear out the back door. You don't owe anyone any explanations, either.

Here's a hug, I'm glad you got away.

Thank you Al and Valium for sharing. I thought the people in the church were suspicious abusive rude and unwelcoming with a thin veneer of nice clothes and manners.

I cut them all off and glad I’m not letting myself be treated so poorly anymore. Recovery takes time but just keep plugging away. :)

I've just come to realize that there is a real possibility that my sister is high functioning BPD.

It's hard.

My ex-husband is. What was more dis-heartening is my daughter who I raised without his assistance inherited that personality disorder from him. It went full blown by her 20's. I met my ex in his 20's when his was by then full blown. (I didn't know at first but there had been signs. I was just not trained to see them.)

Albeit my ex is high functioning BPD. My daughter is struggling because she suffers from chronic disabilities my ex didn't.

It is painful for me because I am not able to help her as she is on her own. She's cut off all ties to her family, and there are no words to describe that heartbreak. She's doing more harm to herself than to anyone else, but she doesn't see it.

The Mormon church aided and abetted her to separate her from the only people who really give a damn about her. For that I will never forgive the evil cult. They added to her malaise.

I wrote an essay on Smith as a cluster B-person here:

https://www.postmormonperspective.com/2018/09/did-joseph-smith-have-narcissistic.html

All these posts reminds me of how Mormonism is a great place for many cluster B-persons. For example a woman writer who is a sociopath says:

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a sociopath's dream. Mormons believe that everyone has the potential to be godlike—I believe this includes me. ..."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/articles/201305/confessions-sociopath

Growing up Mormon I noticed a lot of those who were narcissistic and controlling and lacked empathy, yet they acted "holy," they checked all the boxes of a "good Mormon," but behind closed doors they were manipulative and cruel.

Mormonism, as a works-based religion with a heavy emphasis on appearance, e.g. Sunday best, shirt and tie, garments, temples all pristine; all this aids in allowing real toxic people and cluster B-persons to APPEAR good and holy publicly while being toxic in private. Then when confronted on this they gaslight, and the Mormon leadership that are normal decent people just see this public image and don't SEE the real person (as they don't really have the spirit of discernment, and are not trained in psychology to spot a cluster B-person that is toxic and needs treatment and/or accountability). So I think Mormonism is a safe haven for these types.

Wonderfull,

You have nailed it totally.

And I think everyone in the cult knows who the crazies are but never warn anyone nor try to rein them in. They let them use the church as their playground to find new unsuspecting victims, probably as you say, because they look good superficially.

Your link looks interesting and I will now go read it!

So weird, I literally removed every word I thought they'd ban and still won't work. May be a glitch.

Hey Mel,

No, I have not read her book. I have skimmed it though at a bookstore. It seems interesting. I have learned a lot about those like her from other places already.

I did just finish listening to an audio-book about Kuklinski and watched the cable TV interviews with him which are both fascinating and disturbing.

Hey Mel,

No, I have not read the book. I have skimmed it though at a bookstore. It seems interesting. I have learned a lot about those like her from other places already.

I did just finish listening to an audio-book about Kuklinski and watched the cable TV interviews with him which are both fascinating and disturbing.

Wonderfull,

That psychology today article by the sociopath was amazing! In fact I was positive it had been written by my own SS teacher until luckily a few later details did not match up!

Have you read her book that the article was excerpted from? I may read it but it will be scary, for sure!!! Thanks for the link.

I think she is right about moron-ism being a playground for persons of her ilk. I was so naive and they moved me around like a piece on a chessboard.

The only people I thought were truly without ulterior motives were the Mishies. They were nice and truly wanted to teach and me to learn. It’s ridiculously sad that they pay to go on missions—the church should pay them. They’re probably the only ones really deserving it.

Is TSCC an institutional cluster B personality?

I just wrote a post and it says that I used a banned word but it doesn't say which word. so I read through it and removed any word I thought might be a problem, and it was still banned. Is there a link to a banned words list?

wonderfull Wrote:
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> I just wrote a post and it says that I used a
> banned word but it doesn't say which word. so I
> read through it and removed any word I thought
> might be a problem, and it was still banned. Is
> there a link to a banned words list?

No--by design, there is no link to the banned words list.

Report your own post (the one which posted at 12:11 AM), and on the report, ask Concrete Zipper (the owner of this board) what to do. (I think you may need to be logged in, in order to report a post.)

It’s a Fight Club rule, so chic. Especially when you consider that the name of Fight Club’s antihero is a banned word.

I will try one more time, ... to Mel

No I have not read her book but it sounds interesting. I wrote more than this but it keeps glitching.

wonderfull Wrote:
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> I will try one more time, ... to Mel

I went ahead and ordered the book on Amazon. That is an interesting idea from Babyloncansuckit, that moronism is an institutional cluster B. I think he’s onto something.

Yes the banned words are unpredictable. I think some may have been used in hacks and that is how they ended up banned. I have had to rewrite things at times.

Between the automatic word changes on my cell when I type things from there as I am doing now, or posts using unallowed words, and the ever-present risk of being attacked or misunderstood, it’s a wonder we all do indeed have this great sharing and meeting of minds!
:)