My "No Proselytizing" sign had blown off during a windstorm earlier this winter. The "No Soliciting" sign is still there. Since I had to scrub the gummy thing from the storm window off before replacing the sign back in place, I've held off to see how long it would take before a bleeping JW showed back up.

It was app 3-4 months since the sign blew off til today.

The doorbell rings. I go answer it. I see the JW tract pamphlets in his hand. As I point to the 'No soliciting' sign and tell him that missionaries are not welcome here. Then I asked him was he a JW? He said he was. I proceeded to ask him to remove my address from their contact list ... which I know will not be done as he turned and walked away from my porch.

They make me so angry that I even need to post more signs not to come to my door. One sign should suffice. They are selling something. They're selling their bleeping religion. That makes them solicitors.

The sign that blew off over the winter was ordered off Amazon. Guess where it was shipped from? St George, Utah. Priceless..

Why wouldn't they remove a name from their list if they are told to do so? I wouldn't think they'd be pests for the fun of it.

I've never had a sign on my door and if I tell someone or some organization to stay away, I expect them to comply.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2019 07:42PM by Cheryl.

I expect them to also.

But they ignore people's requests.

I may call the local Kingdom Hall. Someone else mentioned that in a different thread sometime ago. But why the heck should I have to?

When I asked him to remove my name from their contact list is when he turned and walked away like it didn't even register.

He did kind of freak out though because he could tell I was mad..

I shouldn't have to point to my sign and say 'no soliciting' includes NO missionaries. And that includes JW. Especially them. They are the only ones who show up in our neighborhood. Not even the Mormons come around here anymore. They moved away years ago. They used to keep an apartment down the street for years for missionary companions. Not anymore.

You don't know the JW's!
They do not care and will not stop.
We lived 1 block from Kingdom Hall, and the families would start from there and hit our houses at least once a week. Finally we got off their radar when my Landlord, who lived in the front house, answered the door, nearly naked, with a 5 gallon bucket of water in hand. All he said was: 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, and then splashed the 5 gallons of water out the door, juuuuust missing the fleeing JW's.
Our address was put on their do not knock list :-)

Thanks for a hilarious visual.

Your landlord and Cheryl may be related - she uses a waterhose.

:D

They will own your house in paradise.

As things stand the bank owns it. I trust the bank over Jehovah Witnesses.

And that isn't saying very much.

I have a no solidity sign that everyone ignores. So I installed a camera at the front door with an intercom. I can see who's there and I can tell them to get lost if I want to.

Yeah, that would be a big help. I have a security door that is a combination storm door. It still isn't enough.

After buying into the neighborhood where I moved my family 20 years ago, was informed by my neighbors the reason why the former owners of my home sold was because their own teenage sons were the neighborhood cat burglars!

My church at the time when we moved in (RLDS,) insisted on moving day that I change my locks as a safety precaution. The elders of our church did that for me. It was before I even learned the prior owners sons were burglars. I was so very grateful for their assistance and guidance during that time.

Some door to door callers are just scouting the neighborhood to see whose house is an easy break-in. Jehovah Witnesses are no more welcome here than a cat burglar. I honestly cannot tell them apart.

The two teenage sons who lived here before their parents sold out of embarrassment after the sons were finally arrested, didn't last long. One died tragically from suicide after the parents banned him from moving into their new home where they went to. The older son got electrocuted when he broke into an old commercial building downtown and stripped some copper wiring from it. He touched a live electric wire and fried his genitals, hands and feet off. The neighbor behind where I live whose house he burglarized when police finally caught up to him, told me what happened. He read about it in the news.

What a horrific end to his fugitive career.

I doubt that I would've bought this house had I known in advance the history behind their selling it. They were what were known as "motivated sellers." Their children were credited with nabbing at least 8-10 homes in our neighborhood.

So who the hell wants to open the door to flippin' strangers? JW can take a flying leap off a short pier! I'm sick and tired of them.

Too bad that the real estate agents don’t have to tell potential buyers of that property, if something like that was connected with the property, like they have to do if someone was killed there.

You were lucky that none of their enemies that they wronged ,tried to break in to get back at them and you were there instead, I heard about a few stories, where new owners were killed because the scumbags went after the wrong people( you)

Your neighbors were probably profoundly grateful that you moved in.

Just add a sign that reads "Blood Transfusions in Progress Enter at your own risk"

With them that just might work!

:D

The trouble is--they adore persecution.

I believe that's why Russia has so little humor these days with proselyters. JWs have been in Russia raising absolute hell.

So what ours are in jail--theirs are BEATEN and in jail !!!!!! Oh, their joy.

That's why if someone sends their kid on a foreign mission, my advice is to check out what hate and discontent those arrogant and defiant-the-laws "Witnesses" have been doing in those places.

So, if they defy Putin and the ROC, why will they take you seriously at your own door?

The most effective is to tell them the sad story of how you were a previous JW, but were so heinously excommunicated due to others' lust for that super-hot, primo AB-negative blood of yours at the blood bank which brought you some big bucks at Christmastime.

Excommunication scares them away. They won't even talk to their own excommunicated children.

You are so funny, Kathleen. :D

With these pesky JW, I could see telling the one showing up on my doorstep yesterday that I'm a former but now excommunicated JW scaring him off.

Until the next truckload arrives. They don't seem to pass messages much to the next missionary unloading in the neighborhood. They pick a spot and start knocking on doors. They are so annoying.

Even with the no soliciting sign they are unperturbed. Since my no proselytizing sign blew off in a windstorm, instead of putting up another gummy sticky mess on my storm door I'm thinking of just adding a handwritten sign next to the no soliciting one that says, "And that includes you too, JEHOVAH WITNESSES." Maybe then they'll take a hint.

Mormon's are bad but Jdubs are worse ...

At least in the mormon church there is an afterlife for sinners. But Jdubs think that when you die you don't exist anymore god annihilates you and then only the 144,000 get to the Jehovah- resurrection. Never mind that there have been over 144,000 cult members over the years all believing they are the special ones.

God is really mean to Jdubs apparently?

And around here we have old people who lie dead in their homes for six months, a year, maybe two longer if they have electronic payments.

No one calls and they die alone, forgotten...

It's all part of the atomisation of capitalism. Divide everyone into smaller groups and set them against each other so they can't overthrow the system until they are just individuals all alone.

So don't let any strangers near your home. In fact, don't talk to strangers. And be careful of your friends. On Facebook you'll find you hate a lot of what they do. If you're male you're an oppressor. White. Ditto. Doesn't matter how poor you are. Hetero? You're an oppressor too. You're all oppressors... Stay away.

Are you saying that JWs coming to the door will somehow help elderly residents who don't answer their knock?

It's up to every person in their home to see that someone is aware of their situation.

JWs are only in charge of spewing their dogma if they can.

I'm not an oppressor. Nor do I owe any stranger at my door entry or any kind of donation or special consideration.

If you feel threatened by everyone, you'll end up alone. I used to do a door to door job - it stank. Horrible attitude of everyone thinking I was a rapist, thief or worse... When I was just a young someone desperate for work who took an exploitative job. (Never did an LDS mission, thank Joe) You could argue the company I worked for was evil - it was - but that didn't make me evil.

With JWs, just say "no thanks". That's all you need to do. They're not usually bad people, just misguided. I've always had pleasant interactions with them, I'm not rude to them. They've appeared here twice or three times in twenty years. Remember they're like many of you once were, human beings with feelings and being nasty to them both hurts them, and cuts them off more from the world. It isolates them and isolates you.

I hate the way the world has become. Everyone's potentially evil now. Everyone's set on each other, while the real threats are ignored. We need human connection now more than ever - jobs are being automated, like payments etc. You could spend decades of your life now without ever speaking to anyone in person. It's sick.

Agreed. A polite "No than you" is all that's needed and saves a lot of high blood pressure.

I suspect the OP wonders: how will such people know that I'm much better than they are? What's the point of being a better human being than someone else if I can't find some way to express that point? Maybe she thinks it's better to treat people as she has deduced they need to be treated, rather than trying to figure what the hell it means to treat other people as she would want to be treated. What the hell is that all about!! She wouldn't be going door to door if she were that person, so that person should take the hint!


OKay, imagine with me, if you will, that the OP was reporting that this was how she treated mormon missionaries who'd come to her door. Sure, there might be some here who would say that every new pair deserved to be treated as if they'd violated a restraining order, but for the most part, many of us would not treat mishies in this fashion, or plot on how to foil their future endeavors in this regard.

There'd likely be a wide spectrum of real or theoretical behavior by members of RfM in such an instance, just as is finally developing here.

I think it likely that we could eventually agree that no one way is "correcter" than any other way. Not being religiously observant, nor believing in a ghawd, or guardian angels, I can't say what the best approach should be for religiously inclined people, believing as they must that there will come a final judgment.

Who knows, maybe this is not an "...even as you have done it unto the least..." but rather a "cleansing the temple" situation and ghawd is okay with rude treatment? How the heck would I know? For all I know, ghawd really is on Facebook!

Being able to read a door sign that says "No Soliciting" is a good starter for anyone going door-to-door to pass by that house.

It's typically a no-brainer, unless one is a Jehovah Witness.

It's illegal to ignore "No Trespassing" signs. It is rude and disrespectful to invade other people's private space without being invited.

Your home is that private space. Knocking on a door where a sign says to "keep out," is enough warning to stay away if you are not welcome to be there.

So you worked for an exploitative door-to-door sales company? So you know how feckless they can be. Sure I feel bad for you. Does that mean I have an obligation to open my door when you come calling?

Heck no!

I agree the world is becoming more automated and everyone is potentially evil. That is a reality we live with.

So it is a reality we either choose to deal with or ignore at our own peril.

Ever watch Dateline? Maybe not so surprisingly are a good percentage of Mormon and JW psychos who are featured for having committed heinous crimes against families and neighbors, even complete strangers.

Even family betrays their own. Trust is a delicate thing, once broken..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2019 10:16AM by Amyjo.

I watch Dateline and don't recall seeing any stories about JW or Mormon murders.. Can you please provide dates for when these
programs were on since I'd like to watch them.

There are a handful. Dateline and Investigation Discovery and 20/20 do their own stories eventually on each of the various murder episodes - so there will be several involving the same people.

One of JW was Ralph Candelario who murdered rather than get a divorce (common reason among JW to murder their spouse because they don't want to get excommunicated at church. Murder is preferable to divorce so long as the psycho doesn't get caught.) I It's alleged that Ralph murdered his first wife also, but was never charged with that crime as no body was ever found. Her son is still looking for her body, years later.

Another chronicled was a JW in Houston wife, Sandra Melgar, who murdered her husband so she wouldn't have to go through divorce.

And recently there was one on tv of a Hispanic woman JW in southern California, who was involved in a lover's triangle with another man from church. Her husband was in the process of leaving her so she murdered the other guy but it didn't save her marriage. She fled to Guatamala and then snuck back into the states where she was arrested in Florida, extradited back to California and convicted of murder.

I'm surprised you missed just those ones. There are more Mormon psycho stories too, I've found than JW. Jodie Arias for one. And then the son who murdered both his parents because of gambling debts. Both of them from California. There are others.

New one recently was the man who murdered his wife in Utah to get custody of his children, then fled the state. By the time the law caught up to him he had trapped his two little boys in a house he was renting back in Utah while the CPS worker stood helplessly outside as he murdered his children inside.

His wife refused to leave him although he was a domestic abuser. Out of duty as a Mormon wife she wanted to save her marriage. She was in serious denial. He drove her little boys with him in the night to watch him dispose of her remains in an abandoned mining shaft in Utah.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2019 07:38AM by Amyjo.

No. that isn't the case. Everyone has a legal and moral right to react in whatever way suits their needs and their blood pressure isn't an issue here.

It has become very unwise for people, especially women who are home by themselves, to open the door to strangers. In my county, there have been numerous home invasions where robbers push their way into homes where the doors have been opened to them. There have been injuries and even deaths when this has happened.

There is no law that says you have to open your door to strangers, or even respond to them in any manner. You can respond to callers through a closed and locked door, or even ignore them if you wish. If they are in need of help you can call the police on their behalf. And I agree with Amyjo, "No Soliciting" and "No Proselytizing" signs must be honored.

If a stranger knocks on my door, I vet that person through a closed and locked door. Sometimes their story adds up, sometimes not. I live in a locked entry building, so unanticipated callers are rare. And my private community has a "no soliciting" rule, so random callers are not allowed anyway.

It has nothing to do with being "nice" or being "friendly." It has to do with protecting your space, your time, and your privacy.

ETA: In my community, seniors and other vulnerable people can sign up for a program where a volunteer will call you at home each morning to see if you are okay. If there is no response, the police will be sent to do a welfare check.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2019 11:01AM by summer.

It's I who threaten creeps like you. "Get off my property or I will spray you with the garden hose."

My husband is much more aggressive.

We don't get religious fanatics more than once.

You claim to have saved lives, but you don't tell details. That's likely because you didn't save lives as a door to door fanatic.

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's I who threaten creeps like you. "Get off my
> property or I will spray you with the garden
> hose."

I told my co-worker today about your garden hose, Cheryl. She is the one who was there the day the bleeping intruder tried to break into her grandmother's house when he thought no one else was home, to rob her. She loved that idea. She said to get my garden hose on the JW next time they show up! :D

>
> My husband is much more aggressive.
>
> We don't get religious fanatics more than once.

I don't get the *Same* JW missionaries twice. Just the missionaries returning to the same neighborhood, differing faces over and over again. They sometimes travel in pairs or singles. Yesterday the guy was traveling alone. That made me very uncomfortable too. ANYONE can get pamphlets of JW and go door-to-door. What a RUSE to get inside someone's house if someone is up to no good.

We owe them nothing. It's like a scammer calling on the phone invading our privacy. Only someone showing up at the door has the potential to do bodily harm.

I had a friend who was a wheat and commodities CEO for Nabisco prior to his retirement years ago. He never took cold calls for anything from anyone. He told me if he wanted something whatever it was he did the calling. Period. That was how he lived his life. He took no crap and did things on his terms. Until he was forced to take early retirement because of sexual harassment on the job. He was a very wealthy self-made man so he could afford to. Nabisco gave him the ultimatum to bail to save them a potential major lawsuit. Then he died on the golf course within a couple of years after that. He was such a sweetie. Self-made guy. I was sad for him he didn't get to live to enjoy retirement. He was only like 56 when he died. :(



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2019 04:39PM by Amyjo.

How macabre.

Most places, USA, people who go missing are reported as such and have welfare checks run on them by local law enforcement when family & friends are unable to get in contact. Including old folks. Especially older folks.

Even mailmen are taught to be aware of old folks not picking up their mail which in turn alerts not only them but neighbors or apartment managers. And odor of decomposing flesh? Goes without saying if you live next door.

I know of no such place like where you live. Not saying it doesn't happen, it isn't routine in anyplace I've ever lived.

My dad when he was older and unable to get around as much, his mail woman would check in on him every single day to make sure he was alright. That was in a desert town in Idaho. People are like that where I live in a bustling metro area.

Strangers are just that: strangers. When someone comes to my door unless they have a legitimate reason to be there with valid identification, they are not welcome. Door-to-door salesmen are not welcome. The only door-to-door sales people knocking on doors where I live are scouting out the area to do burglaries. They aren't here to sell anything.

In today's climate of con artists and thieves it is sad but true you cannot be trusting of strangers. The generation we grew up in if you grew up in the 50s, 60s, maybe even the 70s, is not the same one it is today. Con artists and thieves are a dime a dozen. They will break down your walls and rob you if give them half a chance.

Jehovah Witnesses, whether they're really missionaries or pretend going door-to-door, I still hold in the same category as thieves. They are fleecing innocent, trusting, naive and gullible people. Make no mistake, Jehovah Witnesses, like Mormonism, is selling a C-U-L-T.

When you've been burned by one C-U-L-T, the last thing or person you want showing up on your doorstep besides a burglar or someone worse wishing to do you harm, is a bleeping missionary for a C-U-L-T.

If you won't protect yourself, your home, or your family from danger, who will?

It is a sad commentary but true we can no longer afford to be so trusting of anyone, especially strangers.

Likewise, if I were a young Mormon missionary, I would want to ask their parents what the holy heck they are thinking sending their children out to go door knocking in this day and age? Young mishies barely out of their teens if that, have wound up dead because of entering the wrong house of a predator who looked nice because he was/is a sociopath.

One of my co-workers told me earlier this week that her grandmother when my co-worker (27 years old,) was staying with her in her home on Long Island, came to her door one morning when some guy came knocking demanding she let him in for some reason to do with a house repair or something she knew nothing about. He knew she was elderly and lived alone. My co-worker was sleeping upstairs at the time, and came down and told him to get the eff off their porch and stop pounding on their door. She was more menacing at him than he was at her grandmother. He took the hint and backed off. She knew if she hadn't been home with granny that day he would've broke down the door and forced his way in to rob her.

He could've claimed he was a JW, or a gas company rep. That's a ruse they're known to use to gain entry into people's homes.

If someone purports to be from a utility company, (sometimes the crooks even have a uniform on,) still the utility companies say do not let them in before contacting the utility company to confirm they are in your neighborhood and that someone has indeed been sent to your residence.

Knowing some simple rules to protect yourself and your household can save lives.

He was selling magazines but when he saw the frail elderly woman open the door, he shoved her inside and dragged to her bedroom. There he tied her down while he ransacked her house and hauled her valuables to his car. Then he raped her and left her tied up where she died of thirst and hunger after a couple of days of agony.

No one should answer the door to strangers who can't prove their trustworthiness.

Salesmen and religious fanatics are much more likely to do harm than people in the general population who don't harass people on the street or in their homes.

That is horrific.

How tragic.

There is absolutely zero reason to answer the door to anyone who has no purpose to be there that isn't invited or expected in advance, excepting emergencies or acts of God.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2019 03:57PM by Amyjo.

So the Prize Patrol is out then?

Who are you referring to?

A few points of order. Just because I was a JW, as I've said, so have a different perspective.

1. The name is "Jehovah's Witnesses": Witnesses of Jehovah (God) - therefore plural (not "Jehovah Witnesses"). They are literally "witnessing" for Jehovah, in their parlance.

2. Every JW is not a missionary. The regular congregants (who are all encouraged/expected to go door to door) are called "publishers" ("publishing" the Good News - their message - by going door to door with the message). There are some JW missionaries but that is over and above the regular publisher efforts. As I've said here before, I went to Quebec to be a JW missionary (preaching to the French-speaking population who were largely Catholic by definition - so yeah - good luck with that - number of converts due to my efforts = 0). When I lived in BC, I was a publisher or member not a missionary.

The quota of time spent preaching the word then was 1-2 hrs/wk from what I remember in order to be considered active (so you'd go out door to door on a Saturday morning, for instance). Not participating as a public preacher was grounds to consider someone not active - I forget the exact term they use/d to denote that you weren't participating in the preaching. Not a good place to be. In but not in. A cause for great unhappiness to be sure. Some people just don't want to do it but with JWs, as with Mormons, there are expectations laid down from top leaders. If you adhere to them you are in good standing, if not you are relegated to the back benches, or worse. It's hard on members when one standard is forced on everyone despite differing abilities and interests.

At some point the focus switched from preaching to anyone you encountered to "finding the lost sheep". They interpreted that to mean not persisting in trying to persuade those who are not interested. Their new approach was that only the lost sheep, those meant to be JWs, would be interested. They've morphed even further lately with the relatively new method of silent preaching - setting up those kiosks in public places we've spoken of recently and not directly approaching anyone but just displaying their literature.

3. We've discussed recently, Amyjo, that they are specifically taught that they are *not* solicitors; therefore, a sign saying "No Soliciting" goes over their heads. They do not consider that it applies to them. They are specifically told by leaders that it does not. I think you'll have to get your more specific sign replaced ("No Religious Calls" or whatever it said). I know it's a hassle, and an expense, but it seemed to work, no? I'm just mentioning it as I know the situation irks you but there is a solution albeit one causing you some expense and effort. If they ignore *that* sign, then that would be another story and I believe you could take further steps. Or you could just ignore them. (Do they call that often? If not, maybe you could do your BP a favour and just let it wash over you). I'm not saying it's not annoying. I felt annoying when I was forcing myself to do it as it was a requirement to be in good standing. I would say that most JWs would rather *not* engage in the formal preaching part of their religion.

I know their activities bother many people, especially those with no use for religion at all. I'm not going to justify what they do. They annoy *me* when I have to see their kiosks in not one, not two, but three of my favourite shopping and recreational areas. Annoying because it's a big reason that my time as a JW has come flooding back lately and raked up all the memories and feelings I didn't even realize were still niggly. Undoubtedly, I'd feel differently if I hadn't had the personal involvement.

And yeah, even though most don't like JWs in their face, they are not zombies or parasites or criminals, just people who are following the precepts of their faith, like Mormons, in order to fit in, follow along, fulfill the expectations of the leaders.

I'm not saying how you should feel about their unwanted intrusions but just that maybe some insight into it would tone down the annoyance level to a lower level. No point in spending a lot of energy getting too worked up about it. Isn't life challenging enough with everything else that goes on?

I know I have a soft spot for the rank and file that most non-JWs will not feel or care about. I'm not saying you have to like them or what they do or that it isn't irritating. But they're not generally known to be criminal masterminds or rapists looking for easy opportunity.

However, as Cheryl says, it is wise to exercise caution whenever opening one's door to anyone. There are a lot of door to door salespeople and others and undoubtedly some have nefarious motives. One time I had a guy knocking, saying he was a neighbour and his wife needed urgent medication they didn't have money for due to some glitch with their insurance. He blurted out a sob story that didn't hold water for me. If the situation was as dire as he made out there were remedies for them other than begging for money from neighbours. I started querying him and saying the system doesn't work that way (we have "socialized medicine" here but even if not there are usually solutions to be found with MDs and pharmacies, cutting out any need for drastic means such as begging door to door). He departed abruptly. Even so, it took me a while to realize it was a scam. I'd never seen him around either which if he was a neighbour would have been strange. It can be hard to think when a stranger shows up at the door wanting something from you. We get a ton of guys calling who want to fertilize the lawn or fix the roof or repave the driveway. Annoying, yes. Luckily, I'm in a very safe area (to date) and it's a nuisance (as they often call at dinner time) but not a danger. However, always good to keep in mind that situations arise unexpectedly and safety should be our top priority. I often choose to just not answer. Including when JWs or Mormons call. I note that lately JWs just put their leaflets through the letterbox rather than knocking and trying to start a conversation. That's fine. I can live with that.

I sent a fax to the JW Kingdom Hall this morning when the call wasn't picked up (it went to a fax number after a few rings.) Although the fax didn't go through either.

So I drove it to the Kingdom Hall on my way home from work to drop it off and make sure it got to someone in the office.

A guy cleaning the big room for services this weekend is in charge, he told me when I entered the building. I explained to him that I have told their missionaries at least a couple dozen times to remove my address from their contact sheet when they've come to my door, and they have continually ignored my repeated requests. I informed him of my no soliciting, and no proselytizing signs on my porch telling them I do not wish to have any contact with them.

I asked him why they do not get the message when it is relayed the first time, times 99?

He apologized and said he will take my letter and enter it into their "no contact" database. Like wtf? Why couldn't someone have done that before my having to drive up to the Kingdom Hall and go there in person?

I told him I don't care who it is that I don't answer my door to strangers. Unless it's an emergency, or a family relation, friend, or someone I know, or whomever like the fire department or the police (we have a very safe neighborhood, one of the safest in America.) I told him I once belonged to the cult of Mormonism, and I want nothing to do with proselytizing on my doorstep.

He mentioned something about Jesus' earliest disciples being Christians, not Jewish followers of him. I told him that was wrong. That Jesus nor his apostles, like disciples, were Christians. They were Jewish, and that Jesus was a rabbi. He agreed he was a teacher. I wasn't going to get into a discussion further other than the only thing JW and Jewish people had in common was the Holocaust because they were murdered in the camps same as the Jews were. Otherwise the two religions really share very little history in common. And that Jews do not proselytize nor want to be proselytized to.

Hopefully now that I've made my request in writing it will finally be honored.

On a sidebar, I put the Kingdom Hall address at the top of the letter form, where it was faxed initially. He pointed to that address and said he would enter that in the database. I had to point out to him that the address in that corner was HIS address, not mine lolol. Not the sharpest tool in the shed.

My address was highlighted throughout the letter so he really couldn't have missed it. Instead I had to go over the simply written letter and underscore where I had highlighted my address to make sure he entered the right one.

My, oh my.

"Hopefully now that I've made my request in writing it will finally be honored."

I wouldn't count on it. Not long term anyway. They figure, like Mormons, that people move and they will come across new occupants they haven't spoken to before. Or that you will change your mind (people do) and want to talk to them at some point. If you manage to get on the Do Not Contact list it is not forever. Just saying.

As for the cleaner, he may or may not have been a JW himself. He's likely excellent at his occupation. I wouldn't be that shocked that paperwork is not his thing.

Who knows if he will pass on your message or if it will be honoured anyway. Yes, you've gone to a lot of effort but it may not be the last word on it.

I'm kind of laughing at the mental image of a Jewish ex-Mormon lady debating with a (possibly) JW janitor the ins and outs of Jesus. As for JWs and Jews sharing a common experience - yes indeed. Human history is rife with unexpected twists and turns. Many of them tragic.

I feel a common bond with folks just because this being human thing is not an easy road for most of us. I personally feel better if I can manage to be courteous despite some situations being irritating. I don't really like yelling at people. It doesn't feel good. So yeah, basically my approach is selfish in some ways. Also, of course, when it comes to JWs, I've been there.

He was not the janitor.

He said he is in charge of the Jehovah Witnesses there. I took him at his word.

It would be very disrespectful were they not to honor a written request. Even oral should suffice. Maybe they are from another planet. Because most reputable establishments honor boundaries.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He was not the janitor.

Oh. I thought you said he was cleaning the place. I didn't notice the part about him being in charge.

> It would be very disrespectful were they not to
> honor a written request. Even oral should suffice.
> Maybe they are from another planet. Because most
> reputable establishments honor boundaries.

Fundamentalists don't see "boundaries" the way others do.

I don't see a lot of point in continuing to bang one's head against a wall. [Edit to Clarify: I meant this comment to refer to arguing that JWs et al should change their outlook and/or behaviour - not gonna happen, wasting breath to go on about how they should be different. I wasn't referring to myself engaging on this topic - on re-reading I realize it may sound like that. Sorry if so. Not directed at anyone or at this discussion].

I have tried to explain it. I will stop now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2019 09:17PM by Nightingale.

Nighty said:
>> I'm kind of laughing at the mental image of a Jewish ex-Mormon lady debating with … the ins and outs of Jesus.

I chuckled at that too. I'm surprised Amyjo didn't join that religion too.
Amyjo, surely you have a JW relative or connection somewhere!

I'm with Cheryl on this. I don't like to open the door to people. I've heard horror stories too. Even when someone is hired or there to do something, I'm not comfortable with them roaming around in my house.

I get not opening the door to people you don't know (except on Halloween, of course), but I'm perplexed about going to the door to tell people you are not going to open the door, and to go away and not come back.

And who here is not aware of the fact that mormon missionaries and JW door-knockers both think that what they are doing is more important to you than your privacy?

Maybe stamping one's foot would get the point across? ...with a moue of annoyance!

One of my Mormon cousins joined JW as a young artist in the 1970's. It helped him to detox. His dad was an alcoholic. The alcoholic gene runs in my Mormon family DNA. It only helped him for a while. He soured on it eventually.

Nah, I don't care for JW at all after learning what a scam it is, like Mormonism.

A cult is a cult is a cult is a cult. At least there is no generational cycle of JW in my family like there is Mormonism. I actually think JW is possibly more sicker in some respects than Mormonism is because of its inability to allow access to blood transfusions to save life and other reasons. In Mormonism everyone practically is "saved." It is almost a "New Age" religion. As opposed to JW where only 144,000 will inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. Both are ludicrous, it's just by degrees.

To each their own. Just stay off my doorstep.

One reason I love Judaism is because of the prohibition on proselytizing. And that runs through MY DNA.

:D

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> In Mormonism everyone practically
> is "saved." It is almost a "New Age" religion.

Really? Never heard that before. I guess it depends on your definition of being "saved". Mormons are at least alive in some level of "heaven", apparently. Is that what you mean? The latest utterances of the current Mormon prophet don't make that sound too enticing. Something about living in bad houses. And he knows this how? And can someone please tell him how utterly ridiculous that sounds? And vindictive? And materialistic? Is that an accurate depiction of the Mormon god?


>As opposed to JW where only 144,000 will inherit the
> Kingdom of Heaven.

If people are going to be scathing and critical I like it to at least be for accurate reasons. In JW theology, the 144,000 is the group that goes to heaven. All the rest of humanity that survive Armageddon (namely, rank and file JWs and anyone who has never heard of them so supposedly didn't get a chance to join the group) will live forever on Paradise Earth. The way God meant things to go in the first place. Until Adam and Eve messed it all up for everyone. And hey, living in Paradise doesn't sound like a bad deal. Fearing heights as I do, in fact, it would be my strong preference not to float away into the sky.


> One reason I love Judaism is because of the
> prohibition on proselytizing.

There are plenty of other faith groups that don't actively proselytize. Funny how most people tend to go with the one closely aligned to their own country and heritage. If I had done that, I would have stuck with either Catholicism (mother's religion, although non-practising; also the one into which I was first baptized) or with Anglican/Church of England (i.e. mainstream Protestant). As my central reason for attending church ended up being to accompany friends (a pattern I only noticed after the fact) I ended up as a JW and then a Mormon. The two have many general similarities, in my experience.

>Both are ludicrous, it's just
> by degrees.

I'd hesitate, as a religious believer of concepts that others find questionable or outlandish, not to point fingers at the "weird" doctrines of other faiths. Could come back to bite. :)

Nightingale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Amyjo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > In Mormonism everyone practically
> > is "saved." It is almost a "New Age" religion.
>
> Really? Never heard that before. I guess it
> depends on your definition of being "saved".
> Mormons are at least alive in some level of
> "heaven", apparently. Is that what you mean? The
> latest utterances of the current Mormon prophet
> don't make that sound too enticing. Something
> about living in bad houses. And he knows this how?
> And can someone please tell him how utterly
> ridiculous that sounds? And vindictive? And
> materialistic? Is that an accurate depiction of
> the Mormon god?

Everyone is saved in Mormonism. Only sons of perdition will be outcast to Outer Darkness, such as Judas Iscariot, and traitors of Joseph Smith. Haha. Essentially though, Mormonism teaches that all people regardless of religion are saved. Only Mormons though reach the highest level in heaven. Everyone else will have to settle for one of the 'lower' kingdoms because they didn't accept the gospel.
>
>
> >As opposed to JW where only 144,000 will inherit
> the
> > Kingdom of Heaven.
>
> If people are going to be scathing and critical I
> like it to at least be for accurate reasons. In JW
> theology, the 144,000 is the group that goes to
> heaven. All the rest of humanity that survive
> Armageddon (namely, rank and file JWs and anyone
> who has never heard of them so supposedly didn't
> get a chance to join the group) will live forever
> on Paradise Earth. The way God meant things to go
> in the first place. Until Adam and Eve messed it
> all up for everyone. And hey, living in Paradise
> doesn't sound like a bad deal. Fearing heights as
> I do, in fact, it would be my strong preference
> not to float away into the sky.

So your having been a JW, you say that is correct. 144,000 do go to heaven, and the rest (who survive Armageddon,) stay on earth? Who doesn't survive Armageddon? Non-believers?
>
>
> > One reason I love Judaism is because of the
> > prohibition on proselytizing.
>
> There are plenty of other faith groups that don't
> actively proselytize. Funny how most people tend
> to go with the one closely aligned to their own
> country and heritage. If I had done that, I would
> have stuck with either Catholicism (mother's
> religion, although non-practising; also the one
> into which I was first baptized) or with
> Anglican/Church of England (i.e. mainstream
> Protestant). As my central reason for attending
> church ended up being to accompany friends (a
> pattern I only noticed after the fact) I ended up
> as a JW and then a Mormon. The two have many
> general similarities, in my experience.

I wasn't looking when I discovered I was Jewish. But yeah, if I'm going to align myself with a religion it would seem logical to align myself with one that shares my values.

>
> >Both are ludicrous, it's just
> > by degrees.
>
> I'd hesitate, as a religious believer of concepts
> that others find questionable or outlandish, not
> to point fingers at the "weird" doctrines of other
> faiths. Could come back to bite. :)

Well, I'm a sixth generation Mormon on my dad's side. A Protestant/Anglican of mixed heritage on both sides (going beyond my dad's Mormon side,) and my mother's Jewish maternal side going back hundreds of years. They all have outlandish teachings. But I am still a believer in some of them.. because I still believe in God and the people of the bible.

I don't believe in organized religion. And I do have contempt for cults because of the destruction they have caused to my family and others. Especially Mormonism. By extension I don't see good in other cults. To each their own. Just don't knock on my door when I have a do not disturb sign placed there because missionaries are not welcome, and it is only Jehovah Witnesses that are pests.

Bad guys don't always stay in "bad" neighborhoods.

I live in an upscale very safe city, but we do have bad guys who come here to take advantage.

The Golden State murderer lived in an upscale area and did rapes and murders there and in other very nice "safe" cities in Northern California.

Living in a safe or affluent place doesn't mean it's safe to open the door to strangers. That means any non-emergency person the owner doesn't know. Being a religion pusher doesn't make someone nice or safe.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2019 06:12PM by Cheryl.

I agree, Cheryl. Caution is always the best option. I too often take people at their word as I "can't believe" they would do or say untrue things, such as the guy pretending to be a neighbour and making up a crazy story to get strangers to give him money. I know - I'm naive and I can't get over it.

Re my mention of living in a safe area - I should have said that is part of what makes one careless, unthinking, too trusting (which is my nature anyway).

As I mentioned, quite often lately I don't even answer the door. I get so ticked off by all the guys wanting to look after my lawn and just assume that if it's suppertime it's them again. Funny - they bug me more than having Mormons drop by. The latter is a rare event in this area.

Anyway, in general we all seem to agree on the main things. A lot of our approach depends on our own experiences. Which makes sense.

There's nothing wrong with that.

Everyone has a right to react as they see fit depending on their own needs and situation.

I do object to those who say there's only only true and honorable way to react to strangers who confront residents. We don't owe strangers at our doors or strangers on the internet more consideration than we give ourselves.

That is exactly right.

Where I live is a 'safe' neighborhood. Nearby is one of the FBI's "Safest" cities in the USA to live. And the inner city of where I live is probably one of the more dangerous to live.

If you go several blocks one way or the other into differing suburbs the neighborhoods do change. And yes, criminals do move around.

Thieves are constantly on the prowl. They scout neighborhoods constantly. My neighbor told me recently of one home near a park around the corner that was burglarized in broad daylight. More burglaries are done in daylight than at night time.

People posing as salesmen and utility workers use that as an excuse to get into people's homes or to scout the neighborhoods. So people do need to pay attention, even in "safe" neighborhoods. I've worked in law enforcement for the duration of my career. I suffer from PTSD from violence to loved ones. And I just do not trust smiling faces. My own uncle is a con artist (Berkeley grad engineer/scientist.) Mormon TBM cons.

I've seen and had enough. I'm so done with crooks. Add that I'm burned out on religion if not for my being Jewish through my mother's side, I don't know what I'd be right now. ETA: however, I am definitely NOT an atheist. I have faith in a Creator. In mankind, not so much.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2019 04:51PM by Amyjo.

I don't remember if I related my encounter with the JW, they don't show up as often as LDS missionaries.

About 10-15 years ago and couple of older JW's came to the door and their spiel started on how when the attacks on the WTC in NY were happen, many people ran to the JW church, or what ever they call it, to seek sanctuary from the terror.

The JW's said we didn't know the terror of what happened in NY.

I told them to hold on, I went upstairs and got out my ID's and security passes to enter into WTC recovery site.

I showed them my mementos of my time in NY and the recovery effort. I told them that I saw, I felt, I smelled, I tasted the results of the attacks and how I will never forget what I witnessed.

The JW backed off and thanked me for my service.

About a month later, one of JW's again came to the door but with another partner. Before I could say anything, the original JW said he just wanted his partner to meet me, shake my hand for what I had done. They both said thank you and left. Haven't seen a JW since.

A handshake and thank you to you, Tumwater, from many of us as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2019 09:41PM by kathleen.

Thank you,Kathleen.

Agreed and concurred.

I worked near the Twin Towers for nearly a decade before moving away. It was a permanent landmark so we thought until it was gone.

I grieved for all the lives lost when 9/11 happened, and the loss of our nation's 'innocence' if you will.

But I also grieved for that mammoth building square where I spent many lunch hours, and morning walks, running errands through the WTC concourse (it had a shopping mall and business center with banks etc on the ground floors.)

Also there used to be a blood bank there where people could donate blood to the Red Cross. I did that on occasion from work (WTC was kitty corner from where I worked across a public square.) I could see the Trade Center from my corner office window where I worked. On 9/11 I was told those windows got sucked out on that side of my building. (I had moved to upstate NY by then, or would have been there on that day. My last stop to the Twin Towers was in March of 2001 for a training class. Flew into Newark and took the shuttle bus to the Marriott at the Concourse and walked over to my office for the last time. I haven't had any desire to go back since.)

Thank you for your service, tumwater. Again and again.

There were all kinds of heroes that day on 9/11 and what followed. That speaks to the heart and soul of what our country stands for. Some good came out of that horrendous event because it united us and brought us together to stand against evil.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2019 07:52AM by Amyjo.

The JW's show up in my neighborhood every few years - and always give me a wide berth.

Apparently I'm on the shit-list ...

Please do share what it takes to get on the doo doo list?!

It probably happened when years ago a grandfatherly JW prodded a 10-year-old 'acolyte' up my front-porch stairs to tell me about Jesus. I regret to say that I was a bit rough on the lad - I now wish I had handled it with more grace, but it was certainly an uninvited imposition.


Makes up for the 2 JW's who basically connived their way past my two small children _into_ my house, to be discovered by my TBM wife as she came down the stairs. I would have physically thrown them out had I been there ...

Maybe you should put a big flag on your front door. Some signs supporting our troops might work too. They hate that stuff. I know when we lived in Virginia, I saw them walk past our neighbours house who had a flag on his porch, then when they came by my house, they just looked at it and were talking to each other and passed my house also.
( my car in the driveway has military tags and military pumper stickers)

That's a thought. Thanks for the suggestion!

:)

Hmm - DW has had a flag hanging in our front porch window for 10 or 15 years - maybe that's part of the anti-JW mystique?