I'll never understand.

It is rife in Mormonism as well as all over the place.

If you don't want to be judged a bad person why put yourself in situations where it is bound to happen? Are these situations necessary for your survival? Are there not less judgmental alternatives?

Why do people do this to themselves? The BYU Honor Code is another similar thing. I'm an alumni and I knew going there what it was and I had read it. I didn't think it was guidance but a code of judgement, of me, as a person.

Why do people think they are victims of these judgmental jerks? They had to know that they didn't fit. I knew I didn't at BYU and I didn't break their rules.

Anyway, here is the poor mother's "trial" with her judges.

"It wasn't about whether they had their scholarship in place," Grant tearfully told the paper. "It was more or less about me just not living right. ... It was an uncomfortable conversation, but I sat through it because I really wanted my children to go to the school."

"This situation has really put me in a bind mentally," Grant said. "I can say I've done some 'not so ok things' in my life. Done some things I probably shouldn't have but I don't want to be judged as a bad person! [And] I especially don't want my kids to be judged for my actions."

"However I've been the same unmarried woman with children who have different fathers since the day he first accepted me [and] my children and the money for them to attend and that's where he's wrong."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mom-says-kids-kicked-out-of-school-because-shes-unmarried/ar-BBW6Szw?ocid=spartandhp

If this woman’s ten year old gets into a fight with the school bus driver and police have to be called something is seriously wrong at home! The kid hasn’t learned proper behaviors and that is the fault of the mother.

I don't know about all that. What I surmise, theorize, and suspect is she is teaching her children to associate themselves with a group with rules that their mother chooses to ignore.

Is that what she wants to teach them about religion?

bus driver, what exactly happened?

My son was "in a fight" in middle school. His friend, who is much smaller than he is, was being beat up by another student and my son stepped in front of his friend and took the beating. My son didn't throw a punch and the witnesses said that he didn't, BUT because he was in a fight at school, he also had to go to some kind of student discipline board for a while. He also had to go eat lunch in the assistant principle's office because he was late a lot to 5th hour. The AP and he became best friends. He was also suspended a day for threatening a kid who had threatened his twin sister.

My son was not your typical kid. He was goth from late middle school on, but he was not a behavior problem, but he was pegged as one because of how he dressed.

So we do not know what happened on the bus. We don't know the whole story.

I'm surprised they let her children in the school as it is. I do know my friends put their son in a "christian" school--not the religion they were, and it was rather interesting, but I don't remember that they were asked what their lifestyle was, but maybe they were. They were married. They didn't attend any church and were Catholics who also didn't attend their church.

cl2 Wrote:
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> So we do not know what happened on the bus. We
> don't know the whole story.

Yep. But we do know what their mother is dealing with - judgmental people she wants her children to be influenced by.

It's a private Christian school, and the school can accept, reject, or eject whomever they wish. Isn't that the point of a private school?

Personally, I think that the school is using the mom's unmarried status as the official reason, but in reality the bus issue along with the other issues were probably the driving factors. Why was her daughter giving the bus driver a hard time? That is my question.

My personal experience is that the bus issue is probably indicative of many other issues. And that this is a non-story.

summer Wrote:
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> And that
> this is a non-story.

It is but the psychology of the mother is what boggles my mind. Is it tribal identification? The idea that private is better than public? Why have such a disconnect between home and school for your kids? Do you expect them to live some "higher law" than you?

Again, if my experience is any guide -- even many dysfunctional parents want the best school available for their children. For instance, I would not place any child that I loved in most schools in my district. Sad, but true. It's not that the teachers are incompetent, it's that the kids are around too many other kids from dysfunctional homes. There is foul language, disrespect to adults, and fighting. You also have a lot of low-performing kids which can drag down achievement.

For low-income parents looking for an option, you have charter schools (which may or may not be better than the local public school,) and private schools, usually religious schools, because those are often the least expensive. The mother had good intentions, but (IMO) likely lacks parenting skills based on the bus incident and other unspecified incidents.

I've seen students who were bounced back to the public schools from religious schools because they could not cut it. It's not unusual.

"It's not that the teachers are incompetent, it's that the kids are around too many other kids from dysfunctional homes."

My wife teaches basically to two demographics - the government assisted and the neighborhood where a couple NFL players live.

She is a wizard with classroom management - a legend in fact. She shows love with expectations.

I get that private is often viewed as better. I don't really disagree but the fact that this parent thought/thinks that she doesn't play into the equation and that a private school should just accept her kids and not be bothered with herself is either highly ignorant or just plain stupid. To think that you could matriculate your kids into a private school with least common denominator acceptance criteria regardless of the charity they offered seems like she is mad that her handout didn't work out and so scorch the earth they walk upon.

Fascinating question in the OP -- why indeed.

A flip-side question is:

Why the fear of judgment of others at all -- good or bad. Why would it matter so.

On taking thought, can only hypothesize may have something to do with evolutionary biopsychology - those less fearful of judgement were excluded and so perished (think Socrates). Death tends to select the socially fearless out genetically, so only the compliant remain.

A "pale" is the vertical post that in quantity makes up the fortified boundary of a settlement delimiting civilization from the wild - and so to be "beyond the pale" was to be expelled outside of the fortification, to face the wild alone. And of course that meant almost certain death. And death meant no reproduction. And no reproduction meant that trait was selected against.

Great thoughts! Humans often do not do as they say they do.

So what about overconfidence? Getting the "good" judgement of others through over confidence and lying. Is it more of a survival advantage?

The mother in this thread isn't going to change her lifestyle regardless of being judged a bad person. Is her kids going to a "Good Christian" school part of her being judged a good person? Does this give confidence in herself?

Is she deceiving herself?

“When a person cannot deceive himself the chances are against his being able to deceive other people.” Mark Twain, Autobiography of Mark Twain.

“Show me someone without an ego, and I’ll show you a loser.”
Donald Trump, How to Get Rich.

https://rationality-and-competition.de/wp-content/uploads/discussion_paper/25.pdf

Good points, Elder.

I was sad to see this mother command so many front-page headlines.

She chose to have children out of wedlock, they are on scholarships so obviously she does not have a good career herself, since they are causing problems at school they have not been taught proper behavior, but despite that she wants red carpet treatment at private schools, and to play the victim when the school didn’t keep going along with her agenda.

Very entitled person. They’re everywhere now, it seems. The school did give her kids a chance and they blew it. Having to call the police because of a dispute with the school bus driver?
That tells you right there, her kids have not been taught to behave.