Just been reading an interesting article on a major pizza chain's international sales. In many places, it is failing to break even, or only just managing to, despite having previously been #1.

The company blames the emergence of rivals. I suspect healthy eating, veganism and food faddism have all played a role too.

So why am I posting this here and whg isn't it marked "OT"? I think there's an LDS lesson here: the pizza company is probably trading in most countries where it will turn a profit, and it has brand recognition. It has reached saturation point in some of these countries, has had its methods copied and also has had criticism.

Both the LDS and the pizza company have the choice to spread into less profitable markets, do something completely different or to try and fight off criticism which will probably be counterproductive. A few markets may open up in the future. In the case of the LDS, I have been doing some simple number crunching - the number of missionaries has fluctuated wildly, but convert baptisms are remarkably even. In the same way, there comes a point that you can only build so many pizza outlets, and you are chasing the same number of orders.

The main pizza problem is that papa john's still exists.

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
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> The main pizza problem is that papa john's still
> exists.

Well I did write you a reply there, Dave, but the spam filter ate it up.

I've never eaten said brand, but I can assure you this post isn't about them. PJs is one of their competitors.

Why? It's the best pizza chain IMO. Way better ingredients than Pizza Hut or Domino's.

Everyone's ingredients are all the same and John Schnatter is a total douche. And so is his buddy Peyton Manning.

I disagree. To me, Papa John's tastes way better than Pizza Hut or Domino's.

I don't know those people, but your dislike for them doesn't affect the flavor any.

You obviously have not had Kum & Go pizza. It's the best.
Costco pizza is a lot better than Sam's Club pizza.

Agree Costco pizza is the best!

Costco pizza at the food court is great--for some reason the ones you get in the food department to take home and bake yourself never seem as good.

There must be a church analogy there I haven't come up with.

Chicken N. Backpacks Wrote:
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> Costco pizza at the food court is great--for some
> reason the ones you get in the food department to
> take home and bake yourself never seem as good.
>
> There must be a church analogy there I haven't
> come up with.


I've considered this and checked multiple locations on Wikipedia, but did not find an apt corollary until I checked on LDS(dot)org. Try this from a conference talk in 1946 (when lots of WWII vets were rushing to get married, finally!):

"Don't make love in the temple right after the sealing; it's better to wait till you get to the parking lot."
--Elder Judic West, Presiding Deacon


ETA the word 'not' so as to get a wee bit closer to making sense.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2019 10:02PM by elderolddog.

So true. They are different pizzas altogether. Total ripoff.

It's like how church seems when you're an investigator vs. when you have to start paying tithing.

Your analysis holds so long as the product is converts. But if the church runs the missionary problem to rope in young missionaries, then converts is the wrong variable to observe.

Would they like more converts? Surely. But that is a secondary desideratum.

The two figures I looked at were missionary numbers and convert baptisms - both taken from LDS websites. It was clear that much higher missionary numbers didn't raise a fairly steady conversion rate.

From the LDS POV:
* Female missionaries are less in demand, and can be cut/not recruited.
* More missionaries vs similar convert numbers means fewer baptisms per elder, which is not a good incentive to keep them in.
* Opening up a major new territory will be a good market for them. China is the obvious one.
* Some territories are open but have very little coverage e.g. Africa. Expansion is an option there but with lower financial returns.

Useful.

I think they are well past serious conversions. Africa is promising but China, with such strong anti-American and anti-Western and anti-religious sentiment, is probably not.

Africa. That's the future--until they get access to the internet.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
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> Useful.
>
> I think they are well past serious conversions.
> Africa is promising but China, with such strong
> anti-American and anti-Western and anti-religious
> sentiment, is probably not.

Chinese people make up the majority of new LDS converts in my area. If China opened up, it would be like the Soviet Union back in the early nineties. I could see there being quite a few joining to begin with (a small number out of a billion, but probably in the thousands at least), then that figure would flat line.

The anti-religious sentiment is mainly from the government, not the people. (Although it pretends to be a "people's republic" like all Marxist projects). There are a lot of Christians in China, but many have had to keep their religion secret. It's a much lower percentage than Korea or Japan, I believe.

> Africa. That's the future--until they get access
> to the internet.

Erm, huge chunks of Africa already do. Haven't you received your email from Engineer Lot asking if you want your cousin's twenty million?

I read something recently about cell phone usage in Africa, and it was surprisingly high. Africa is a vast place though, and some parts of the continent such as South Africa are more advanced than others like Liberia. (Although South Africa is on its knees from corruption and having one party rule for twenty years.)

Chinese have very little interest in religion. They've seen two successive moral systems--the old imperial ideology and religions, followed by Communism--collapse completely and, like people who've seen the same sort of sequential failures in Japan, Germany, and Russia, have lost interest in religion and ideology. The "religion" of modern China is materialism and wealth. The government (never Communist) is totalitarian rather than ideological, and the people are almost as cynical. Small overseas communities may be more receptive, but Chinese in the PRC are highly unlikely to respond positively to Mormonism in general and especially given the extent of nationalist hostility to the US in the country today.

As for Africa, your post persuaded me to look up the rates of internet penetration. They are very low by global standards--about 36% continentally and below 10% in a lot of countries--so I remain comfortable with my assertion. I'd caveat that, though, by saying that internet access has to be high for long enough for people to gain facility with the harvesting and evaluation of information. So the period in which the church can sell its product successfully will not last long--perhaps another decade or so.

The church is chasing poverty and illiteracy. Globally that is a shrinking market segment.



https://www.internetworldstats.com/stats1.htm

I'd rather eat pizza, even bad pizza, than go to church, any church.

One word for you, Roy: Csikszentmihalyi.

His book Flow, or watch his Ted talk. I think you'd like him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2019 05:50PM by Lot's Wife.

OK, I'll check it out :)

As Lot's wife says:
"so long as the product is converts"

Yeah, I just don't see it. It was obvious that converts are looked down on and we all stopped coming, a little while or a longer while after baptism. Zero retainage rate, at least in my ward.

If converts were actually important, I think it would be different.

Converts as numbers, not as people.

Thus Alexander slashes the Gordion Knot and opens the mystery to our understanding.

in b 4 ~ church is not like pizza ~


there is good church ~


an there is bad Church ~


in b 4 ~ sex is like pizza ~


there is no bad pizza ~






wait ~


what is this thred about ? ~

Pizza with fish on it is bad pizza.

And what's this horrible fad of "breakfast pizza" with egg and bacon on it ?

And what about pizza with pickles on it ... Oh ... wait ...I've had cheeseburger pizza with pickles on it. Not too bad.

you doing it wrong Dave ~

I'm one of the minority who seems to like anchovies. I'm not sure I'd put any other fish on there - maybe tuna, salmon at a stretch, but neither of these are things I'd want to do.

What's up with the tilde?

There is no tilde; there is only ~

The ~ that can be written is not the true ~

To know the true ~ is to know the true ziller

To embrace the ~ is to embrace ziller...(ziller appreciates a good hug)

Wiping away tears. GregS has achieved transcendent enlightenment.

~

GregS Wrote:
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> The ~ that can be written is not the true ~

Excellent.

"Everyone's ingredients are the same . . ." said Dave. He was talking about Pizza but it's even truer for churches.

Same ingredients---Jesus, God, Holy Ghost, cute outfits --white with green aprons, or embroidered robes with pointy hats, white collars, or suits and ties, Crosses or CTR rings, pulpits, Bibles, Sermons, Baptism---dunked or sprinkled, sin, salvation, atonement. Get them all on the Giant Combo Religion--Mormonism.

But you can't get delivery. That is where Pizza wins. And, 10% to your server or delivery person will get you a helluva lot more than 10% to your bishop. If only the sacrament came with extra cheese they might have a chance. But, no.

We all know I'm not opinionated.

I love the smell of opine in the morning.

I respect that, Elder Berry. Some might say that it is a corny allusion, but I respect that.

Casey's.

IF they served pizza at meetings, the church would get more converts and attendance numbers would be up.

Pizza problem solved!

This solution just came to me in a rush of inspiration....I must have been in the flow! :)

Now I can't stop focusing on pizza! Turn it off, just turn it off!

Converts are a secondary goal and are mostly important as a justification for the missionary program. The primary goal is cementing the missionaries to LDS Inc.

As for pizza, ham is forgiveable, but pineapple is just sacrilege. It's like saying a PB&J is better made with hamburger. While that point is arguable, it is no longer a <bleeping> PB&J!! Utahns will have much to answer for in the next life. The angel Moroni is Italian, and he does not look kindly on the blasphemy of so-called "Hawaiian pizza".

(There was a Moroni's Pizza (pronounced Moh-roan'-neez) in the neighborhood I grew up in. Pizza came in one size (13"x18" rectangle), and two flavors: cheese and pepperoni. White pizza was an extra cost option on Friday night. It was hard getting into the place on a weekend night. That was real pizza!)

Being Italian well 1/2 (mom was from Italy), I can say all Pizza was not created equal. And even though to err is human, Pizza is divine;hot or cold.
But Mormonism; hot or cold,is inedible. No matter what kind of topping you put on it.