https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2019/05/19/texas-teen-dies-during/


It seems like they lose a couple every year due to Carbon Monoxide poisoning. Maybe it's time for Mr.Mac to start selling missionary kits with CO detectors. Tragic.

A friend of mine went on a mission to South America and was killed by carbon monoxide.

Seems like it's not uncommon. I'm betting that zero MP's or their wive's have died, that way, on their mission.

Won't change until the child of a G.A. is affected. But then, most G.A.'s kids aren't in the slums of Mexico, are they?

How awful for his loved ones.

Two missionaries died during my mission, England Manchester, in the late 70's. The cause was a blocked flu. I came very, very close due to the same. The tragedies continue.

Disgusting!! This brave and smart young man cut down so young due to church negligence in providing substandard housing! Inexcusable and that church statement is the worst! The parents should sue for millions! At the least missionaries should be issued smoke detectors and CO2 detectors, at a total cost of maybe $30 each?? Why not? Outrageous!!!

Combo slarm, $17.23 at Walmart.

elderolddog Wrote:
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> Combo slarm, $17.23 at Walmart.


Which makes this story even more depressing. So needless!!!!

The saddest part is that the missionary was preaching a totally

B S religion and died in a stupid accident doing it.

Life really does have the last laugh sometimes and its always

at our expense.

would be for the church to pay for water heaters and heating units that do not emit carbon monoxide. In the overall scheme of things, it wouldn't be that expensive. They could even work out deals with landlords, so that landlords get upgraded heating units as permanent fixtures in exchange for a bit of a discount on monthly rent.

I lived in a mission where CO poisoning was a constant danger. Just to be safe, we opted for turning everything off that could emit CO before going to sleep and had to buy extra-thick blankets to compensate.

If I were his parents I'd be ticked off! I heard horror stories from my nephew who served in Brazil. He wrote home about being shocked while taking a shower because of exposed electrical wires.

The Mormon church is aware of the hazardous living conditions they place inexperienced kids in - kids who have never lived away from home - and yet they do nothing. In the very least they should inspect all apartments before the missionaries move in, and then on an annual basis to make sure there are working fire/carbon monoxide alarms and no exposed electrical wires. Missionaries who are paying for the privilege of serving should at least be guaranteed a safe place to live.

The parents are being good TBMs and are not expressing any ill feelings towards LDS Inc. Don't they realize that if they don't raise hell the Mormon church will do nothing to protect their missionaries? Once they get over the shock I hope the parents take action.

But the Lord’s anointed can do no wrong. He must have been needed on the other side.

babyloncansuckit Wrote:
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> But the Lord’s anointed can do no wrong. He must
> have been needed on the other side.

Yes!

That's their crappy thinking and how the family will rationalize their grief (or lack of emotions).

Literally just happened to a friend today who lives overseas. Water heaters are not grounded and the electricity gets sent through the water and shocks the person using it. Fortunately she only touched the water to see if it was warming up before she got in, otherwise she'd be dead.

Lawsuit, lawsuit, lawsuit. Every human dwelling in the US has to have a smoke detector in every bedroom plus one more on every level. And they are required to have a carbon monoxide detector in every bedroom. The landlord is liable if they don't work. And the church is negligent if they send their sales reps to live in places like that.

Or am I mistaken?

You're stated the case for the USA. Things are different in Mexico.

mel said it right; every missionary apt should have those detectors. Every mish apartment should be inspected by someone qualified to check those things before they're allowed to move in.

I bet that most mormons never even hear about this.

They should teach about these things. A lot of these kids are traveling to third world countries where housing tends to be of a low standard, thanks to corruption and non-inspection.

But there are ways to ensure decent ventilation other than detectors. I can see why this might be a problem in parts of Russia etc during the winter.

I'm amazed so few die, to be honest.

"The Mormon church is aware of the hazardous living conditions they place inexperienced kids in - kids who have never lived away from home - and yet they do nothing"

I'm surprised senior missionaries don't inspect them. But I think there is a bit of exaggeration here - these guys are the same age as many of the students, volunteer corps, military etc who go to similar places.

Rape though - how many missionaries are raped (inc. men!) and/or robbed? Do they cover it up to avoid upsetting their families?

"I'm surprised senior missionaries don't inspect them. But I think there is a bit of exaggeration here - these guys are the same age as many of the students, volunteer corps, military etc who go to similar places."

What do you base your information on? I'm no expert, but I believe there are US military bases in Brazil that house the military personnel. They're not scattered around the country in groups of two in random apartments to fend for themselves. They may be the same age as missionaries but they receive proper training - not just two months of scripture/language study. There's quite a difference.

A quick google search shows that there haven't been peace corps volunteers in Brazil since 1981. Maybe there's a good reason...

I agree, a large org like the LDS could take better care of their charges, but anyhoo...

A lot of students study abroad, maybe not so much from the USA but certainly from other developed countries. Some of the accom they live in off campus is pretty bad.

Since the 1990s, if not earlier, many young people from developed countries have worked abroad for charities. I've no idea about the Peace Corps but there are other orgs out there.

It's become fashionable in some parts for kids to take a year out between high school and college. Often this involves traveling in poorer countries. Maybe even earlier. I know people who worked in kibbutzim back in the sixties and seventies, and came back with a few stories about the living conditions.

I suppose you could factor in hostels abroad. I've stayed in some, and many of them are VERY bad! Even in relatively developed countries including the USA. I stayed in a horrible one in Venice Beach some years ago. Not to mention Air B n B.

I'm not understanding your point... this thread is about a missionary who died due unsafe living conditions while serving a mission in Brazil for LDS Inc. What do hostels, Air BnB's students studying abroad, the military, etc. have to do with the discussion? You keep mentioning "volunteer corps" but haven't mentioned one by name or how they compare to the missionary program in Brazil.

Sometimes it seems that you are just trying to throw the discussion off track and to aggravate people. I don't think I'm the only person who has noticed this.

My point is that it's not as unusual as some may think for people that age to go abroad, and find themselves in substandard conditions. It's not a jusification - it happens. Where things differ is that LDS missionaries won't get involved in drink, drugs or sexual liasons in the aame way those kids would (and there are risks attached to all of those)

I don't carry a list of such orgs in my head, but the one that does come to mind is WWOOF (Willing Workers on Organic Farms). Many a youngster has gone off to WWOOF with starry eyes and naïve utopian notions - the stories they come back with are varied. They operate all over most of the world. For many people it's a way to pay for travel, but they can end up in bad accom with bad bosses and low pay.

The LDS is different in that you're pushing a religion, have a distinctive uniform and early rising etc. It's like a cross between an ashram and door to door sales.

No one is arguing that people do not go abroad for various reasons. It does not justify the unsafe living conditions of LDS missionaries. If anything, a multi-billion corporation should do everything within its power to ensure the safety of 18-19 year olds. If they can't - at a very minimum - provide adequate housing with smoke/carbon monoxide alarms and showers free of electric shocks, they need to abort the missionary program.

Why even mention getting involved in sex, drugs, etc? More off-topic nonsense.

"Why even mention getting involved in sex, drugs, etc?"

That was a passing comment in a discussion of the general health and safety of young people abroad and I didn't intend to dwell on that. "Inexperienced" people as someone above called them.

Anyway what you call "off topic nonsense" is called CONTEXT. It is always valid to put things into a broader context because without one will only gain only the narrowest type of understanding, if that, as I'm sure you know.

"If anything, a multi-billion corporation should do everything within its power to ensure the safety of 18-19 year olds."

I already stated this above, but you choose to ignore it.

I'm not choosing to ignore your comments, just trying to make sense of them.

It would help if you did a little research before posting comments.

You might want to start by googling U.S military bases, humanitarian volunteer organizations, and study abroad in Brazil. Maybe get back to me and let me know how housing conditions for those organizations are similar to housing for LDS missionaries. I'd be interested to learn how they compare.

Bottom line, it doesn't make it okay. LDS Inc. is liable. It doesn't take a whole lot of effort to instal working battery operated CO2 monitors. That is the least LDS Inc. can do for its missionaries, even if no one else in Brazil does it.

Those deaths are horrible and totally unnecessary. I hope they sue the s*** out of the morg, but probably won't. I went to a third world country for a mission decades ago, and we missionaries lived in rat holes with no heat or air or hot water, etc. (and I do mean rats like chihuahuas and huge bugs everywhere) while the MP and his family lived in a nice house with a full time maid and a personal assistant. Then there was the nice two story mission office. I got an amoeba there and long story short, almost died. Did they care? No. Did they send me home? No. Because if you are sick or killed, it's either God's will and you should gladly suffer, and/or you didn't have enough faith or this would not have happened. And let us not forget Job. Being compared to a fictitious character in a made up story does not help. If missionaries have to live in rat holes, then so should mission presidents.

almost like manslaughter. Buy every missionary abode a gas detector, fire detector and a can of Raid. And include safety training before leaving the training center.

Simply put: this should never have happened and the mormon church knows it.

Enough missionaries have died or been injured by carbon monoxide poisoning that there is a specific rule in the "white bible" about safe use of fuel-burning heaters. At least there was 20 years ago when I was out.

That said, I didn't have hot running water a single day on my mission (outside the MTC and mission prez's house). About half the time we didn't have reliable running water at all. We learned to shower with a bucket. Some guys would heat up their shower water on the propane stove first, but I never did that. Waste of time and gawd's money in my "flecha" mind at the time.

Tough way to go...if there is any positive here, it is painless and symptomless in the beginning. In other words he had no pain. Poor kid, just beginning life. On a winter camping trip, one of the LDS dad put a portable gas heater in his car where he sleep - just a little butane heater. He didn't vent the window enough AND I believe he didn't intend mean to fall asleep. In any case, the next morning, Brother Smith was stiffer than a board when we went to wake him for breakfast. Very sad to see people go in their prime.

Just senseless and tragic.

Does the church not have a system for evaluating data, like cause of death, related to their mission program?

Wouldn't they have to fill out some kind of report for adverse events under their watch, even for themselves to review? I'm guessing they do and chose not to do anything.

Real businesses have to track this stuff and put in corrective actions.

They read the news which has reported similar causes of death in their missionary program. They have to know that is a risk related to their business model and organization.

They have a sales force acting like a business and masquerading as a religion. Maybe they should have regulations and regulators checking them so they take some responsibility.

The church should require that each missionary carry a CO2 detector w/ him at all times - for every apartment he/she goes to. They should just keep it with them are they move from place to place. It should be on their "checklist" of things to buy. Faulty equipment, especially water heaters and furnaces happen everywhere. Some countries have sub-standard codes (if there are even any codes). Senseless and easily avoided for <$50 bucks per missionary.

There are currently just over 60,000 missionaries. Assuming 2 missonaries per apartment, that is just over 30,000 apartments (many of these are in the US where most of them would already have CO detectors). TSCC could buy a smoke detector for ~$20 for each apartment for about $600,000. They are reportedly spending $800,000 to fly Russ and Wendy around the Pacific.

How about Russ cancels his next foreign trip and spends the money on safety for his missionaries.

On my first night on my mission in Puerto Rico in the 1980s, my companion and I went to spend the night at the mission president's large house in San Juan. After the entire family had gone upstairs to bed, my companion and I and the Pres. wife were in the kitchen, just delayed a little in preparing our room for the night.

Don't remember why we had delayed and were still talking in the kitchen. Suddenly an electrical short caught fire under the sink and started to burn the cabinets. There was no fire alarm. We had to put it out with water because there was also no fire extinguisher.

If we had been asleep, without a fire alarm, the whole house would have gone up in flames.

Many other dangerous things happened too. I don't think missionaries are safe on missions.

From some of these stories of hardships and danger it almost seems that kids are punished for serving a mission. With the justification that it builds character or is god’s will — not the churchco fault. While they take the kiddos money and time.

Do parents ever sue successfully? Has anyone ever heard of that happening?

What doesn't kill them makes them stronger, I guess. That is what the church banks on. If they survive their missions they come home stronger, more dedicated and faithful members.

Didn't work for me. Didn't work for my brother either. I survived my 90% tracting (no baptisms), soul crushing mission and then went inactive. My brother did the same. TBMs do have a breaking point.

I was very sick on my European mission. I needed antibiotics. Mission pres did nothing. The intestinal bug finally left my system after almost 3 months of misery. I didn't even think of complaining because I knew it was my fault for drinking out of a stream where cows were grazing nearby. Stupid. Young people do stupid things. Nine of us were stupid (we were really thirsty) and were sick. No one helped us. Mission pres was aware of our plight but didn't send us to a doctor. We just endured the same way we endured our missions. It's all a test of endurance.

I haven't heard of parents suing. Lawyers are expensive. If they sue, maybe it is kept quiet. More likely they were fed the line that their missionary son/daughter was needed to teach the spirits in the next life. That's always comforting to hear (sarcasm).

Yesterday, a young man in a waiting room started talking to us about his mission, in New York City. My friend commented that she knew of several missionaries in inner-city missions, in NYC, Chicago, and Detroit, and she asked if it was true that the COJCOLDS sends only large, strong missionaries into the inner cities, and never female missionaries. The young man laughed (he was big and strong), and he said that NYC wasn't that "scary," and they knew the neighborhoods to avoid, especially at night. Then he hesitated, and frowned, and said, "Except...we lived in a really, really bad neighborhood...."

My large nephew was a missionary in Chicago, and there was a shooting in the apartment building where they lived! There had been shootings there before! Even after that, the idiots kept living there! Nephew got an abscessed tooth, and the mission president made him wait for 4 months of agony until he went home, to see a dentist. For the last two months, they kept him working in the mission home, rather than send him to a dentist, or send him home early. It was agony for him! My large nephew looked like a pale skeleton--lost 60 pounds, had a fever, and was very sick, until the antibiotics got rid of the infection. The tooth had to be pulled, anyway--a procedure not all that expensive. BTW, he converted no one.