The body of the little girl has not been found, but the police say they have sufficient evidence to charge her uncle with kidnapping, murder and desecration of a corpse.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2019 08:07PM by bona dea.

Ah! They must have finally beaten it out of him.

Lol. Nah they found her blood on him and on a knife that belonged to her mother which he discarded in the neighborhood.They also found her shirt with blood on it.

Hrumph~~

I hate it when we can't abuse a criminal's right to due process!! What's the point of being righteous then?

You underestimate the social and political utility of communal violence. Bloodshed appeals to people who are angry, rightfully or wrong, and history teaches that collective violence binds people together. Mass movements frequently employ such tactics because they bring an emotional clarity, a purity, and prepare people for future group "action."

Sticks in the mud like you and I may find the violation of civil rights and personal autonomy alarming, but it would be a mistake to think such sensitivity is universal.

I have a basic understanding of bloodlust. But it's academic only, no field work.

I think he is kidding. Making fun of those who think torture should be used. He can speak for himself, but that is the way I took it,esp considering his history of using sarcastic humor.

Spot on, Bona Dea. I'm a low life but I'm consistent.

I thought so.

You're a rather complex guy, EOD.

I'm a jerk, but I make people laugh.

Maybe they should put him in the yard with some chicanos. He might not be laughing then.

We humans may be "designed" towards socially cathartic acts of violence to individuals.

If my child were missing ,I might feel that sticking a suspect's face in the toilet til he talked was a good idea.However, rationally, I know that we can't do such things for good reason. Civil.rights protect all of us and torture doesn't work.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2019 09:37PM by bona dea.

+3.14159265359

+ 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419

As ghawd is my witness, on my planet, ∏ is going to be 3

I am in Logan and something is happening. Police are everywhere around Lizzie's house (4th west and 1st south). Helicopters overhead. 3 blocks have been sealed off by police and barricaded. I think they may have located a body?

Facebook is reporting that they are searching a house where evidence was found. I hope they find her so her parents can have some closure. Sounds as if the chances of her being alive are very slim if not non existent. So sad. I had hoped she would be found alive

I just heard the attorney for the guy tell reporters they have recovered her body.

The uncle's attorney has announced that the body has been recovered.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2019/05/29/new-account-will-collect/

very sad situation.

Whipple's court appointed attorney got him to confess after hours of negotiations.

He finally broke down and led them to the body of the little girl.

Broke down?

Or got some kind of a deal...

There's a difference.

Governments are experts at deals with devils.

The deal was likely made with the consent of the child's mother ...

Someone who is possibly overcome with fear and budding grief and not in the frame of mind for such decisions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2019 05:52PM by Elder Berry.

How does one train to make these decisions? Being human can get very messy. Thank ghawd we have our leaders!

Yes, government officials around you when you are a victim of tragedy is a comforting thought.

It reminds me of war. Some could argue that grief over lost loved ones sent towards violence is illogical.

Mormons often argue for "the better off now" for their dead in their enteral promises.

a complete aside:

> It reminds me of war. Some
> could argue that grief over
> lost loved ones sent towards
> violence is illogical.


I wonder if a grieving parent, spouse or child was ever told, "You know, he killed X enemy combatants before they finally got him..."

The poor child. The perpetrator needs to be put away for the rest of his life.

Utah is a death penalty state, so the deal was undoubtedly that he be ALLOWED to spend the rest of his life in prison. And the justification was exchanging this for the whereabouts of the body, on behalf of the family.

A deal with the devil.

"Sometimes the devil is the only one open for business."

The state may have taken the death penalty off the table.

The perp has to be a monster because no one else has the capacity to do what he did with a conscience.

He may get his comeuppance in prison like Jeffery Dahmer. Once there, if he isn't kept isolated from the rest of the violent core they'll get to him before he gets to them.

He apparently has a long history of mental illness which might partially explain what he did.

1) Humor on this subject thread bothers me. It's tragic enough.

1) Even as an excop and get-tough-on-them conservative, I also find appeals to pain and violence inappropriate.

2) Annoying, but not so offensive, is the wild speculation, such as, "He probably negotiated this...or that..." We have no idea, and probably never will get the details.

3) I'm glad for, and genuinely respect, the suspect's lawyer. It's his job to make sure the suspect's rights are safeguarded, SO THAT THE PROSECUTION'S CASE DOES NOT COLLAPSE. Allow me an example from case law:

3A) A child was missing, and presumed murdered. The suspect was in the back seat of a cruiser. Without the body, there would be no provable homicide. Knowing the suspect had religious sensibilities, one cop said, in earshot, "Gee, It's too bad we can't find the body. This deprives the parents of giving the kid a Christian burial." Note the suspect was not directly asked.

The suspect, hearing this, volunteered to show them where the body was. Okay, legal beagles, what's missing here?

Miranda warning! the suspect was not "Mirandized." Therefore, his statement regarding the body was inadmissible, and the discovery of the body invalid as evidence against him. His conviction was later overturned.

These are the kind of Constitutional safeguards and procedures that enter into even ugly cases like this.

--GoodCopBadCop (mostly Bad).

Thank you for that.

It is tragic,but the humor was directed at some posts from another thread on how to deal with suspects a t the expense of due process. It was not directed at the sad situation with this little girl.Perhaps this wasn't the place for it, but civil rights ,even for suspects is an important subject. Some posters were advocating whatever violence necessary to get a suspect to talk. I strongly disagree with that for many reasons.

I understand and appreciate that, (always-kind) Bona Dea.* Rahter than get into naming and finger-pointing, I'm simply suggesting that everybody refrain from such posts.

*Such a sweet monniker, I liked you from the start!

Not gonna happen. Nothing personal, but just not gonna happen, oh lord and master.

All I got are suggestions. (the Rocking Chair's Fiend)

Ah thanks. I didnt find the humor particularly off putting as it was directed at those favoring vigilante tactics which I do find offensive. As I said, maybe a separate thread would have been more appropriate, but I didn't see anything disrespectful to the poor child. I do agree with you about the calls for violence and the speculation. I remember when Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped and people had all sorts of theories about her family-none of which had any validity. I found it disgusting.

We all have our ways of dealing with very tough stuff. But I would agree that those advocating the loss of rights for the comfort of revenge were a bit off putting. This is one of the sadder cases of the depravity of humans. No one feels ok about this.

Agree. If I were my kid, I might feel that way but I hope I would regain my sanity.

...such as encountering a murderous assailant (e.g. mass shooter), fast-moving fire or vehicle crash. Everybody thinks they know what they'll do, or at least what they would like to do, but one never knows until it actually happens. The strong and the weak run to the danger, just as many of the weak and the strong run from it.

And whatever the decision, second-guessing oneself lasts a lifetime.

> second-guessing oneself lasts a lifetime.

A pregnant statement if ever there were one.

Sadly, sadly true. I've seen it up close and personal.

If you come through such a crisis, then you did at least one thing right.

I only wish we could apply that to Lizzie's family.

None of us has any control over what befalls us. In so many cases it's not doing something right or doing something wrong. It's much worse and scarier that that. It's luck or the lack thereof.

Luck may be the deciding factor, maybe not. In an emergency, do you freeze, flee, or respond? Which door do you run to? Actions like those are not luck. It sees you and I know that some things can be controlled; others, not.

The piece of shit deserves to die - but, of course, he gets a deal that takes the death penalty of the table...this is not justice for Elizabeth, the innocent 5 year old girl. Nor is it justice for her family that will live the rest of their lives in anguish.

Surely the family gets to decide what is in their interests--like getting her body back.

I'll volunteer to be on the firing squad.

This would be done at the prisoner's request. I assume this is a legacy of the "blood atonement" doctrine, which would allow a condemned man's blood to be "spilled upon the ground."

After criticizing others for making jokes on this thread, I shall now be a hypocrite and offer one of my own:

Capt. Dave T.A. as he blindfolds the prisoner and lights his last cigarette: "I have some good news and some bad news. The good news is that all 10 men on the firing squad are shooting live rounds. The bad news is, they're all lousy shots."

The way the Utah firing squad works is that the men are handed 3030 rifles loaded with one round except one rifle is loaded with a blank and nobody knows whose rifle has the blank round. This gives the shooters plausable deniability.

But I think you get my point.

I volunteer too! This was premeditated - shooting him is too easy. That piece of shit should die as horrific a death as he gave Elizabeth.