One of the thousand things I don't miss about Mormonism is that I don't have to mingle with people who I would otherwise would never want to have any interaction.

It is no secret that Mormonism has had a history of attracting people on the fringes of society. On my mission 90% of the people I baptized had notable mental, social or economic issues , the rest were forced into baptism or were normal folks experiencing treat distress.

I remember that in my ward on North Salt Lake, while was the elders quorum president we had a steady 10-12 attending members, 5 WHO WERE REGISTERED SEX OFFENDERS. I remember one day thinking I don't need to spend my Sundays down the hallway from my own family, listening to the moral musings of pedophiles. The feeling of a forced meeting, where the only ones to volunteer, read, say the prayer are becuase of a worn out sense of duty or awkwardness.

I I don't miss monthly visits a guy who believed that playing allowing playing cards in my home was inviting the devil. I don't miss the racists. The men who refused to work and provide for their family. I don't reminisce about watching eligible, beautiful smart girls being chased around by weirdos and losers in the singles ward, that becuase they were coming to church to harass these women, they felt entitled to do so.

I don't miss having scientific, historic or spiritual discussions with people who are close minded and shrug at anything they don't know.

I don't miss the lazy cooking and the lame activities. I don't miss leaders who use the "commitment pattern" to try to get people to do things they do not ever want to do.

I don't miss sitting on the couch of a family that does not want me to be there, reading something we have heard 400 times, saying a prayer we don't mean to say, as we dutifully waste each other's time.

I don't miss the disingenuous interest and scheming to try to fake-friend someone into joining or returning.

I don't miss spending nights in a tent with the scout master in his garments, while he tries desperately to get into a right wing conversation so he can parade his conspiracy theories.

I don't miss getting marital, financial and medical advice from uneducated idiots. I don't miss the MLM pitches. I don't miss the physical contact with gross people.

At the risk of sounding snobbish, I don't miss being forced to associate with weird, odd, smelly, ignorant folks.

I made a few genuine friends in Mormonism. But for everyone of those pearls there was an ocean of weirdness and forced association that I surely don't miss.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2019 12:55PM by sb.

What a list! Glad you're free of all of that.

I think we'll sideline the perverts but "notable mental, social or economic issues" - all I can say about that is that you're talking about a quarter of the population there at least. If I said that here I'd be shot down.

"The men who refused to work and provide for their family. I don't reminisce about watching eligible,.

"I don't miss having scientific, historic or spiritual discussions with people who are close minded and shrug at anything they don't know.
I don't miss the lazy cooking and the lame activities."

Don't worry, you don't need to go to church for that. Plenty of this on Facebook

Sounds pretty much liKe any other slice of culture.

No. its not. in no other "slice" would complete strangers be forced to visit my house or tell me how to live my life.

Door-to-door salespeople, homeowner association people...

Oh yes. I forget I get nude in a poncho with my mailman and discuss the eventual planet creation with the alarm salesman.

Churches likely have weird members and if I were church shopping, I wouldn't go back to a church full of members who made me feel uncomfortable. Often, we can't choose who we associate with, but in church, that seems like a reasonable goal.

I don't think reasonable and church really fit together much.

SB has pointed out some very difficult things about American Society. That there is diversity and that the mainstream is suppose to accommodate for the outliers. And if the mainstream doesn't want to then they get called bigots, sexist, intolerant, red necks, etc. But I'd say that the outliers estimate is even higher than what Jordan has suggested as 25%. It's closer to 50%.

Now interestingly looking at N. Salt Lake that SB brought up. This is an interesting stake. The upper class of Mormon Royalty built their big gawky houses there over the decades and now down the hill recently lots of poor people and immigrants have been moving in. The stake boundaries were situated back in the 80s to segregate certain kinds of people together. The mormon nobility arranged things so that their offspring would associate away from the rift-raft. The bretheren and their children are big on promoting diversity and acceptance in their public speeches, but always in other peoples lives (not their own). They don't send their teens to Woods Cross or West High. No GA (or relative) wants to live in Rose Park.

macaRomney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
The
> mormon nobility arranged things so that their
> offspring would associate away from the rift-raft.
> The bretheren and their children are big on
> promoting diversity and acceptance in their public
> speeches, but always in other peoples lives (not
> their own).

California has a lot of social-justice billionaires who live in some neighborhoods, and a lot of homeless in other neighborhoods.

I've read of people on social security who support politicians who want to do away with it.

whoa easy there. I did not say race or gender. These are simply folks that I don't like for who they are not for their national origin, sex, etc if you don't want to hang out with people based on that, then you ARE a bigot.

I guess I'll claim to not be one of them. (LOL)

I can claim that I had a bunch of weird guys chasing me in the singles ward. OMH And I'd then wonder why in the hell I had let the nonmembers go. Mormon dating even back in the 1970s and 1980s was insane. It is worse now. I won't explain the ones I had chasing me. I've had 4 stalkers, so that can give you an idea of the guys I dealt with. I am "too nice" (and that is probably why I have people inviting me to church all the time).

I can say I was forced to associate with jerks, assholes, etc. I was given the lady in the ward that no one else wanted as a VT. Because I put up with her, they left her as my VT for 3 years. I probably requested she not be my VT any longer after she pulled some obnoxious things on me and I never spoke to her again. The ward was all excited when they put up a for sale sign on april fool's day and then realized what day it was. They did eventually move. Nobody in the ward liked them. They were expecting to be taken up into heaven at any time (translated) as they are so holy. Half the valley knows who they are and don't like them.

Jerks like that. My family was not treated well as my dad wasn't very active. I was treated better in mormonism when I was with my gay husband who was cheating with men as he knows how to play the mormon culture. Most of the people I went to church with every Sunday, especially in the ward I grew up in, I wouldn't want to associate with just because they are jerks or assholes. They don't have to be weird or smell bad or even pedophiles, but thought they were better than my family. I can't believe I stayed so long. I put up with SO MUCH abuse at the hands of mormons. They treat me better now than they ever did while I was one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2019 04:28PM by cl2.

sb, I understand totally. That could be my list to a T. Thanks for the validation. :D

But what about that wardhouse smell ? You will miss it.

the image of the scout master in garments had me vomiting

After a couple decades you forget how weird that world and its people (my old self included) really were, especially if you’re thousands of miles from Utah. When I go back sometimes all I can do is laugh. No, I never could, nor would want to, fit back in or be around it for long, but the silliness of it all and the conformity sheep mentality is now kind of amusing.

And it's like there's one, perfect, personality they all want to have. Patient and caring, sweet and nurturing, and the rest of the scout oath...

Well said, sp. Your post reminds me that I'm not alone in this!

In my old ward of my birth and growing up, things weren't as bad, but in the Utah wards, yes, you describe the Mormon experience very well! No, income and race have nothing to do with it. My ward right now is in an affluent area of East Salt Lake, and yet my ward was the same. Instead of men who refused to work, there were men who would perpetrate one scam after another (like my former bishop). There were a few men who lived off their wife, (my sanctimonious, authoritarian deadbeat of a HT) and a few who inherited and "retired" at age 38, like my bishopric nephew.

You are spot-on in your reply to olderelder:

>>>No. its not [like any other slice of culture]. In no other "slice" would complete strangers be forced to visit my house or tell me how to live my life.<<<

We were FORCED to relate to these people. Mormons use peer pressure, parental pressure, fake authority, manipulative tactics, bullying, threats, etc. In the case of my boys, the FORCING was done by hitting and kicking my boys, forcing them into their clothes, and shoving them into a van to take them to church. What-the-hell "church" does that to get kids to attend?

Our own trusted parents and other adults led us to believe that these horrible wierdo's were good people! Mommy told me to respect them and obey them. Even, Mommy said some of them were directed from God! How did we dare contradict or question the Mormons? Let alone, close the door on them.

We could always simply close the door on door-to-door salespersons, Homeowner's Association reps, and other strangers--in fact we were encouraged to do so--and our parents and 30 other people would not scream at us, call us "followers of Satan", threaten us with outer darkness, or punish us, if we did so.

All Hell would break loose, if we didn't keep our appointment with our bishop, so he could inquire about our sex life (huh, what's sex? I still climb trees.) or turn away the kids asking for fast offerings, or say the Emperor has B.O. or no clothes.

It's the forcing that upset me. We HAD TO mingle with wierdo's.

(Also, if a girl turned down those Mormon creeps for a date, the Mormons would condemn her as being "picky", "snobby", "cold", and destined to be an old maid. Ah, weren't we fools to end things with all those lovely, normal non-Mormon guys!)

I agree wholeheartedly. I don’t know why this board has become a training ground for white supremacists who think that if they are wordy, they will sound logical and their filth sophisticated it will be palatable ...and trolls that want to argue every point of everyone’s PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AND OPINION.

I know a disproportionate number of straight crazy folks, have been hit up for loans, favors, rides, dates from complete strangers who are solely using Mormonism as some type of intimaste shortcut to familiarity.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2019 02:21AM by sb.

I don't think I've associated with that many weird people as a nevermo. Perhaps I have a gift for steering clear of them once they expose themselves.

There was a time when I moved a long way away from home to live with a family member and attend a very fine high school. So I was the new girl on the high school campus, and was feeling a bit lonely. Another girl was quick to befriend me and invite me to a Friday night "Christian coffee house." I was a lax Christian at best by that point, but I was willing to give anything reasonable a try. Turns out she was a member of the Children of God, a cult. I was later told that she preyed upon every newcomer to the school. Thankfully, after that a very kind group of girls took me under their wing until I could find my footing.

I've met a lot of strange people. Not just in church but at work, at school (the teachers especially!), at night classes and so on. Some weird people are good company and some are not.

Most people seem to follow the herd and if the herd does or believes somwething strange, then they'll do it. A lot of crazy ideas have been mainstreamed or people try to mainstream them.

Thank you for writing a list I wish I could have referred to when I was a young wife and mother whose very best friend refused to believe me when I warned her that her husband wanted to leave her for a a Mormon woman that was a friend of his brother's wife.They divorced and he married this woman, became a Mormon, Denied his first marriage , never spoke to his 2 daughters again and has never met his grandchildren. My friend since age 6 never forgave me for knowing what might happen. This was 40 years ago. Lots of people do not believe this could happen,but it can, and it did.

I did not care for Mormons, ever. We moved around and always had local Mormon friends who were odd and creepy people. I'm telling you, I've been to some small towns where the Mormons were the worst people around.

MORmONS are NOT weird

just ask Gordon BS Hinckliey !!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xphnhNopWUo

smirkorama Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MORmONS are NOT weird
>
> just ask Gordon BS Hinckliey !!!
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xphnhNopWUo

And as he says that sitting there looking and sounding like something from the bar scene in the original Star Wars movie! lolol

sb has a point. Sure, there are weird people around, but usually we HAVE to mingle with them (e.g. job, relative or cashier). This is different to me than what sb means. Dealing and interacting with weird INDIVIDUALS (however someone interprets someone being weird) is often involuntary and transient. We we all have individual fringe weirdoes in our lives.

However, Mormonism is a choice (usually) someone makes for the Mormon church to be their primary social interaction. That is the dominant culture and association to everything in their lives. It's a COLLECTIVE "Weird People" that some of us are able to walk away from. I also do not miss having to mingle with that whole weird people environment. That is what sb's comments meant to me.

I 'never' fit in well with Mormons, ? did I go out of my way to be/appear weird to them? Maybe, Maybe I was without trying...

I have the opposite impression of Mormonism - it is *too* normal for its own good. I wouldn't give most church members a second glance if I saw them on the street. There are giveaways and many of them "dress square" but that's about it.

My impression of Mormonism is mostly of very normal people doing weird things, not weird people doing weird things.

Look at the General Authorities. You could place many of them on the board of a major company, and not notice. Only their age works against them that way.

True, there are some strange converts, but eccentricity is not a crime and not necessarily a bad thing. Like I say, you will find plenty of strange people outside the church.

This was my impression of the temple. I ended up going many times, but most of the time, the bizarre thing for me was seeing apparently "regular Joes" donning those weird robes. It's no coincidence in horror films that the most boring character usually turns out to be the monster, not the most eccentric one. It would be too obvious.

I disagree. I can tell a Mormon anywhere, without seeing them necessarily. Their mannerisms, speech, subtle nuances in their behavior, laugh, slang, subject content of their conversations, etc.

For example, the other day, I was attending a grand daughters pre-school graduation. As a man and his wife entered the row behind us, this gentleman placed his hands on my shoulders as he meandered to his seat. He gave me a sort of impromptu unwanted massage for a second, while he said, "excuse me, excuse me." That send shutters down my spine as I remember the f'tard Mormon church, and having people constantly touch me with hugs, back rubs, etc. Crazy boundary-less mannerisms those idiot Mormons have. Later, as I was watching this man and his wife, I saw his eternal smile (his garment line) AND overhead him talking about the KC temple on his cell phone. He was a Mormon. I did not know him from Adam, never seen him before. That's one thing the OP left off his great list - the constant touching, which is a manipulative tactic they use.

That was a great comprehensive list given by the OP..I totally agree and relate to. I particualarly agree with the "forced meetings" comment, and this one especially, "5 WHO WERE REGISTERED SEX OFFENDERS. I remember one day thinking I don't need to spend my Sundays down the hallway from my own family, listening to the moral musings of pedophiles." Brilliant...exactly spot on.

I can tell a Mormon when I see them on the street usually, e.g. ball game, whatever. It's their out of season dress wear and garment hiding clothing.

We didn't have any reg'd sex offenders in my ward that I knew of. Friends of mine who had kids were quite adamant that they would leave the ward if such people were allowed to wander around unaccompanied in the building. I completely understand their position.

My ward wasn't in Mormon country at all. We were a minority of a minority, and although some visitors from out of town had that distinctive look, most of the locals didn't. We had little or no slang that I could point to as peculiarly Mormon. Maybe the occasional minced oath like "Oh my Days" and "Heck", but not much else. A lot of the BIC people go to schools where they are the only LDS, and they blend in. No miniskirts or revealing clothing, but that's it.

Jehovah's Witnesses look and dress very like LDS round here. Modest clothing, somewhat dowdy, shabby-genteel rather than smart. The uniting factor is how ordinary they all look, rather than weirdness.

> My ward wasn't in Mormon country at all. We were a
> minority of a minority, and although some visitors
> from out of town had that distinctive look, most
> of the locals didn't. We had little or no slang
> that I could point to as peculiarly Mormon. Maybe
> the occasional minced oath like "Oh my Days" and
> "Heck", but not much else. A lot of the BIC people
> go to schools where they are the only LDS, and
> they blend in. No miniskirts or revealing
> clothing, but that's it.

Calgary, near Lethbridge, near Cardston, as you said seven years ago.

"Calgary, near Lethbridge, near Cardston, as you said seven years ago."

Jesus, you are dense!

Someone calling themselves Jordan posted here seven years ago.

I am not that person. I did not post this forum seven years ago. I do not live in Alberta. Never have. I have never been married. I am not dating a LLatina woman. I have traveled around the world and lived abroad. All of this is too hard for your Communist peabrain to understand.

It is not that hard to understand.

You must have met dozens of people called Mary or Paul or Chad or Cheri/Sheri, and can't be so dumb to think that they are four individuals.

Also this Hwint trash... Assuming that Hwint is not another one of your alter egos, I have zero motive to post as him/her. You say s/he posts content which is suspiciously similar to my own - what would be the point of that? Unlike you, I don't want an echo chamber or affirmation. You on the other hand, do have several personalities who seem to follow you around like flies to the proverbial, and hang on your every word.

Yes, I do know how to spell Latina. There is no edit function.

If you create an account, you get the ability to edit your posts until the thread is closed, I think there's a time limit of several days if the thread remains open that long too, but I'm not sure.

> All of this is too hard for your
> Communist peabrain to understand.

Yes. But at least this Communist realizes that "pea brain" is two words rather than one.


------------------
> Also this Hwint trash... Assuming that Hwint is
> not another one of your alter egos, I have zero
> motive to post as him/her. You say s/he posts
> content which is suspiciously similar to my own -
> what would be the point of that?

You have a compelling motive to post as different people. You have done it several times. And when accused, you then disguise Hwint's writing--but then you get tired of the effort and Hwint's writing style, punctuation, and politics revert to your pattern.


---------------------------
> Unlike you, I
> don't want an echo chamber or affirmation.

Really? Then why did you post as LogicalCanuckExmo? Are you going to deny that was you? Are you going to tell us that the reason the admins deleted that account was NOT because it was you?


--------------
> You on
> the other hand, do have several personalities who
> seem to follow you around like flies to the
> proverbial, and hang on your every word.

I have friends, or people who agree with some of my views, but that is distinct from sock puppets--despite your and Amyjo's accusations that I am EOD's marionette. Nah, you should try it sometime: show some sympathy to others, engage in discussion rather than lecture, abandon the extremism: maybe you too can form a friendship.

Then you won't have to draw your own fan base out of the recesses of your mind.

> despite your and Amyjo's
> accusations that I am
> EOD's marionette.


I get a real kick out of this! I think most of us know what a compliment this is to me. (Hey, maybe this is their way of insulting Lot's Wife?)

Hey, watch it old man.

I basked in the glory of Amyjo's accusation that I was your sock puppet many months ago. I take pride in being associated with such an articulate, cynical, witty, irreverent soul. If Jordan, Amyjo's equal in many respects, reached the same conclusion independently--a rare case of convergence NOT between Jordan and his many alternate personae--I exult in that coincidence.

An excellent gauge of one's character is her enemies. An arguably better one is her friends. In this case I am judged, and come out smelling like roses, on both scores.

You may be the Most Interesting Man in the World, or in outer space now that you hitched that ride on a rocket, but I will not let you deprive me of the honor inadvertently conferred upon me by Amyjo and Jordan.

Now I only await further confirmation from Hwint!

Convenient timing and similar style.

Caveat lector.

Yes! You got it!

But here it is two people expressing a tongue-in-cheek friendship whereas when you deny Hwint, it is one person denouncing himself. That's a different!


---------------
Returning to our other discussion, you said:

"an explanation can be simple, logical and yet 100% wrong.

- major premise: all green eyed humans are from Mars
- minor premise: I have green eyes
- conclusion: therefore I am from Mars"

Now that you've had time to consider your example, have you realized the two fundamental flaws that prevent your argument from being in the least logical?

Or are we going to pretend you didn't say yet another something stupid?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2019 08:17PM by Lot's Wife.

I think the original formulation you are looking for is "all Cretans are liars".

Well I ain't no weirdo! I know vinegar and rum is a great drink!!!

Yeah! We don't HAVE to be part of RfM! We do it cuz we want to!

My active time among the marmints was less than 6 months - and I can still recall feeling uneasy being among those weird, phony, affected people who could not stop talking about their religion, in church or not. Nothing less than syndromic behavior.