My dear elderly cousin whom we met doing genealogical research, has shared with me this week a very upsetting event.

First off, note that she was getting ready to go on a trip with her church group to Palmyra, NY this month and was looking forward to that. Meanwhile, she's been doing her normal things where she lives. Going to doctor visits, attending church, and is active in Daughters of Utah Pioneers.

She is the same age my mother would be if my mom were living. And a real treasure of a person. But still very independent in her own right, and has been living on her own for her lifetime.

Her son was driving her home from a medical procedure this past week, and his wife and he conferenced called each other on the telly while my cousin was riding with him in the car. They were discussing their upcoming plans to move and relocate out-of-state. My cousin was telling me she understood that was a distant plan in the distant future, and to somewhere like say Boise, Idaho where they were heading off to. Because the cost of living where they are in California has become so high that it is running a lot of locals off to lower cost of living states in the outlying areas.

No, it wasn't distant future. It is like right now! They are planning a move to Arizona in the immediate future.

Without consulting my elderly cousin, they let her know that they intend for her to move with them. They want her to sell her house so they can keep an eye on her where they're going. She can either live with them in their house where they'll have a large room for her suited to all her needs.

Or she may prefer to keep her own place as she's accustomed to, and find something on her own.

But the thing that struck me as ironic was they planned this without consulting their mother. She was an afterthought.

I was in shock and surprise for her. She's lived in her California home for decades. She could say "no." But she'd be lost without her son nearby.

So maybe it isn't taking advantage of dear sweet mummy, but they really do want what's best for her? I do think they might have included her in the planning stages more instead of after the fact. To at least have let her be a part of the decision making process.

I asked her if this means her trip to Palmyra is now on hold permanently? The poor dear woman is processing this sudden news with about as much shock as one might imagine. But she is doing it with aplomb and class because she is that kind of a lady.

She is an admirable woman, but I don't envy her right now to be put in such a position by her children.

When we become elderly is this normal for our children to just make these decisions for us? Lord, I hope not. I realize they are wanting what's best for their mother. They don't want her far from them. Her son still takes her to her medical appointments and all.

Is this the Mormon way? The Patriarchal Order? Or just a family decision where the children have become the caretaker and the mom has to rely on their decision making. She is not incompetent by any means. Yet she must feel vulnerable because she is not asserting herself. As soon as her son told her they're moving and therefore so must she ... she is now listing her house for sale and getting ready for the move on this short notice.

It just sounds wrong to me on so many levels. I hope for her sake things work out for the best.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2019 08:55AM by Amyjo.

In my opinion, they are not making the decision for her. She can stay in her California home if she wants to. They are doing what is best for them, and informing her that she has a home and care in their new locale if she wishes.

I don't think this is unusual. Adult children seldom consult their parents about where they live. They go where the jobs and opportunities are, or where the lifestyle would be a good fit for them. A lot of young California families and retirees are relocating to places like Arizona, Utah, Idaho, etc. due to the high cost of housing and living in California.

My brother and I brought my mom to Maryland when it became obvious that she needed family close at hand looking after her. Our decision was rather quick as well. My brother's employment was based here in Maryland. I relocated to be closer to him and his family, and was already in grad school at the time. It became obvious to even my mom that she needed to relocate. Yes, it was difficult for her. She had to let go of lifetime friends. But she did make new friends down here. She had her own apartment for a year, and then I shared an apartment with her for the balance of her life.

If I need family close at hand when I am elderly, then I will relocate to wherever my nephew or niece are at the time. I have no illusion that this will be a happy move for me. But at some point, it may very well become necessary.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2019 09:11AM by summer.

The way she explained it to me, summer, was that the decision was made for her. Not with her, or that she made it herself.

The son and DIL basically let her know they decided this and she is going to move with them.

That is what I found unsettling about it.

Yes, she could stay where she is. But she wasn't given an opportunity to discuss her concerns with them when they made this decision regarding her move with them until after the fact.

Now she is the one scrambling to get her house ready for sale, when they've had months to consider selling theirs. She's lived in her home for many years. It's harder for an elderly person to uproot than a younger person. Without much notice, I would think it's even that much more difficult. She owns her own home. She isn't a tenant.

Suddenly she feels displaced as if she didn't have a say in the matter at all. It was thrust upon her.

That is what I find unsettling about it all. I believe she does too, but is too ladylike to assert herself. She will go along because she doesn't want to be left behind. Her son is her only family, and that part I completely understand.

It would have been nice if they had given her a heads-up, but it could be that they made the decision to move very quickly. Sometimes it happens that way.

She doesn't have to move right away. She can follow them by a few months or more. And as Elyse pointed out below, she doesn't have to move at all right now if she doesn't want to.

On a positive note, she has family members who do want to look after her. The situation could be a lot worse for her. If her son is being rather headstrong about it, it might be because *it's time.* Facing reality is not always pleasant.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2019 01:01PM by summer.

It sounds more like an economic consideration for them than anything. The high cost of living in California has made the decision for them. But then it's getting higher elsewhere too.

That's one of the setbacks I'm facing with my retirement plans to relocate to Utah is the rising cost of housing in that state. It's a disincentive for me to want to move there. I live in one of the least expensive places to live in the United States. If it wasn't for the cold winter climate, I wouldn't mind staying put lolol.

Is it so wrong to want to retire to a warmer climate that I can afford? ;o)

I hope they'll help her transition, but that's up to the three of them.

Yeah, it will be hard on her to move, but it might be harder on her if she stays put without her family nearby.

She's very attached to them. And they are to her too.

I am in a similar situation but slightly different my mom's husband is dying at this moment...he is on hospice already uptunded (in coma) and we are just waiting, it will be any day now, maybe even today. She is 80 and doesn't drive, she wants to stay in her home, I want her to come live with me, but I won't talk her into it, we will take things as it comes. But we live in same city just at opposite ends.

Oh dear, that has to be tough on you and your mom. (And dad.)

Letting go and saying goodbye is never easy.

((((Hugs!))))

If she is able to take care of her her activities of daily living she should be able to stay in her own home.

California has Dial-A-Ride and meals for the elderly. Unless her mind goes she should be fine.

Her mind is sharp as a tack. It's her co-dependence on her son that makes her inter-dependent, which I understand at her age.

He feels a duty to look after her. She is getting up in years, but still very independent.

I can't see her thriving without her family nearby.

Her only other child has predeceased her. For her, her family means everything to her. Which I totally relate. I grieve with her though because I know how attached she is to her home. It has to be hard on her letting go of the things and places she's grown accustomed to for decades.

She has friends where she goes to church, and in her social groups. She might do well on her own, but then she'd miss being near her family soon enough. It has to be rough on her. This will age her by a few years, surely. It can't be good on her health to go through a move like this at her age.

Arizona--ugh. Yes, it is too bad that Old Mom didn't get a vote on where.

Still--Mom has a vote on WHEN. Who says she has to move immediately?

She can take her time selling her house. She needs more time to pack up a lifetime precious memorabilia, her furniture, her clothes, etc. Rushing this huge move could injure her health! Will the movers be doing all of the packing for her?

I would advise her to take her house off the market until she is pretty much sorted-out and packed-away. I made a huge move with small children at home, and a husband who did not do one thing to help (we later divorced). I packed boxes gradually, over a period of 6 months, kept them as small and lightweight as possible, and stacked them neatly in half of the garage. When we put the house on the market, buyers understood that half the garage was being used for storage. The rest of the house looked sensational. We stored some of the furniture, too, to make the house look more spacious. We were in California, and the house sold very fast. There would have been too much strain on the children, as well as myself, had we been rushed.

Often, when ultimatums and deadlines are given, submissive people fail to see that they still have choices within those parameters.

--She can choose the time-frame.
--She can choose whether to live with the family, or live separately.
--She can choose to stay in California for a few more years.
--She can have family come and visit her in California.
--It isn't "now or never."
--She can choose to visit her family in Arizona, any time she likes--preferably in the winter.
--She's got her doctors, her friends, and for transportation she can use Uber, or her friends. She might be fine.

Why is the rush being put on her to move NOW? This makes me suspicious. Obviously, since she has lived many years in her house, she will make a great deal of money from selling it! I suspect that her son wants to use that money for his own move, and his own new house. He probably wants her to "pitch in" on a bigger house with that extra room and bath for her. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Many old people love helping their kids. Her son would do better just to ask her outright.

Personally, I LOVE living with my daughter and her husband and family! Everyone has their own preference. I love my grandchildren, and my house is way too big and expensive for just me, alone. We have a rent-to-buy agreement. It's a good neighborhood, and all of their family members live nearby, and go to the good schools here. My son-in-law (who has a great career) helps with the taxes and utilities, and he and my daughter have done a lot of repairs and renovations. It's a win-win, and I'm happier than I've ever been.

As for the "eternal order", the old-school way of thinking has been that the job for the primary breadwinner is the top priority. The old woman's son has to support his family, and perhaps the best job for him is in Arizona. Children usually are considered ahead of old people, too. They need a safe neighborhood, good schools, opportunities for lessons and interests, part-time jobs, college, etc. The elderly need mainly good medical care, and happy surroundings. Friends, travel, interests and hobbies are up to them. Luckily, most communities in the USA provide well for old people.

Elder abuse, to me, means bilking them out of their money, perpetrating fraud (such as quack doctors, bad elder-care institutions, fake miracle potions, scam investments, etc.)

Elder abuse is coercing old people to leave their families, and go away on multiple church missions, and pay for all of it. Old friends just got back from a mission in Hawaii, where they were forced to live in a Mormon-owned apartment with no air conditioning! She was sick most of the time. Finally, she and her husband moved into another apartment for the last two months of the mission, which made the Mormon leaders angry. One mission isn't enough, now. My old TBM neighbors went on three missions, until the wife died two weeks after coming home.

Elderly Mormons are accosted in their homes by sales teams, persistently harassing them to "remember the church in their Will", or to donate to BYU, or the Perpetual Education Fund, or anything they can grab money for. These teams are usually an older couple, in the same ward as their targets. They pretend to be concerned friends. A pair of them came to my parent's house, when my father was dying of cancer. They came unannounced, but we knew them as "friends," and invited them in. They said they wanted to visit with my parents "privately", so I left the room. That should have been a red flag, but I had no idea why they were there, until after they left. They stayed until 10:30 at night, yammering at my sick father and distraught mother. I didn't listen, so didn't know what they were saying. I finally came into the room and told them, jokingly, that it was my parents' bedtime. My father didn't turn over any of his estate to the cult, but he did write a huge check to BYU! We stopped payment on it the next day.

What about all those old people doing temple work? Do they seem happy?

I know two TBM 80-year-old widows who still take their turn cleaning the church building.

My sweet 76-year-old uncle is one of the the stake financial clerks (They need a team of financial clerks, now, instead of just one, like in the old days) and he had to miss a fun trip during Christmas vacation, because he was needed for tithing settlement and year-end financials. He said, "I was so happy to retire from my job. Why can't I retire from church?" I reminded him that it was just VOLUNTEER work, and all he had to do was say, "no." He just shrugged his shoulders, in submission.

The Mormons use the example of the Big-15, and how they work until they die! No one knows they are "propped up" and dressed, and taken care of, and have staffs of help. My relative was a Big-15, and I've read Benson's stories about this. Yeah, look at the perks! Look at the enormous financial benefits they and their families are getting out of it. The ordinary old Mormon schleps get nothing. They just keep paying more money to the cult--even paying tithing on their social security!

Thanks for your insights.

Yes, she is still very active with temple work too. Her son is active TBM I believe as well. So that won't change where they'll be moving to.

I just think that at her age and for her generation she may not have learned enough to be self-reliant and is maybe too submissive. Because as a Mormon lady still after all these years, she is still trained to be subservient on the men in her family.

It was while I was in college as an undergrad, besides learning to develop critical thinking skills, that I took an elective class called "Assertiveness Training." It was designed for women mostly who were brought up like me, maybe LDS, who were taught to be submissive. It helped me to stand up for myself, and to be able to assert myself in situations where before it was considered unfeminine to do so. That was part of my college training that I was forever thankful for.

It also helped me immensely in my parenting skills with my children. I became their best advocate while they were growing up. Their principals and guidance counselors would tell me over the years that I was in fact just that. I needed to be. It also served me well when it came to standing up for myself with the asshats at TSCC when I needed to tell them to shove off and we took our leave from the cult.

This woman is from my mother's generation. I don't believe she went to college. She is a very classy woman but dependent perhaps on the men in her life. I'm not getting the sense she's able to assert herself even though she really doesn't sound very happy about this move. With such short notice it would catch me off guard, that is for sure.

I just feel for her, because she is such a dear woman that I hate to see this happening to her. It's like her world is being turned upside down and it feels to her like it's out of her control. I know she'll be praying about it and will turn it over to God, and then be at peace about it. That's the kind of person that she is.

So I'll be in prayer for her too because I hope she doesn't get more perplexed than she must already be feeling.

“One mission isn't enough, now. My old TBM neighbors went on three missions, until the wife died two weeks after coming home.”

That’s a perfectly reasonable way to get out of going on a fourth mission.

What a horrid way to spend their retirement years (and last dime.)

They have to go where they can afford to live. They don't want to leave her behind as I assume they'll worry about her and obviously they must help her out if he was driving her home from a medical procedure.

My aunt and uncle who are 83 and 88 were living in a home their son-in-law purchased. It was in SLC, but far from any of the kids. Their SIL sold the home without telling them and bought another one a block from where he lives for them to live in. They weren't happy about it. The family felt it was better to have them close instead of having to drive 30 minutes to their other house.

As we age, we really can't expect everyone to conform to what we want. We have to be willing to make life livable for them, too. I'd hate to live in AZ, but I'd hate to live in CA, too. Not like Utah is wonderful. AZ is hellishly hot as my boyfriend's 87-year-old mother and sister live there, but supposedly it is better for your health?????

Yeah. I suppose so. She already lives in the Mojave Desert of southern California. So making the leap to southern Arizona near one of her grandchildren (and for her son's children,) will be closer for all concerned. They'll already be semi-adjusted to the arid climate, but I'm not sure if they're used to the same temperature as where they'll be going.

Currently she lives near Palm Springs. That gets pretty hot in the summer, so maybe southern Arizona isn't all that much different.

But yeah, I still worry about her, and I'm not even her daughter lol. I can only imagine how much her son must be concerned for her. He would worry himself sick moving that far away without being able to check on her. And vice verse.

Cost was the biggest factor in their decision making. He may be closer to retirement himself. She's up there in years, so he may be retired as well.

wrong. I'm shocked by how hot Palm Springs gets. I went to Mesa once in July with my boyfriend. It is as they joke about--they said it is a dry heat, blah, blah, blah. It was hell. I don't deal well with heat.

I've already told my kids to do what they have to do.

If you are retired or near retirement, money can certainly be a huge issue.

Personally, I like Arizona and its clear blue skies.
And since she already lives in the Mojave desert it should not be too much of a shock.

Perhaps the son can find a place with a separate mother in law suite.
Hope it works out for her.