I think posters who post >2 posts here should be required to post a public synopsis of the Mormon history, including how long they were a member or how long effected by ChurchCo associations, specifically telling the essentials of their contacts with ChurchCo, family & other.

this might discourage trolls & reduce wild, unsupported statements because the posts could be compared to the individual's history.

In my case, I have clearly ID'd my history with ChurchCo, times & places, traumatic events that brought me here.

I don't think that's too high a bar for the others to abide, perhaps especially regarding those from the IMW because there are so many MOs there, more difficult to ID the poster.

Context is always important.

Two responses:

1) Those who post here are not required to be exmormons or Mormons. There are many nevermos who are, or have been, affected by Mormonism, as well as by Mormons, in their families, or at their place of employment, or Mormons who are their professionals (dentists, doctors, etc.), or Mormons among their neighbors or fellow members of their communities, but who have never been Mormon themselves.

2) Second: I (a nevermo) came here as the result of a Google search, because I needed a specific fact. I found the answer I needed, and I also found a community of extremely intelligent and deep thinking people--and I never left.

I also, as a moderator here, don't think that being able to dox a person would be a good idea at all. It kind of blasts the concept of a "safe place," where people can be honest about themselves, and receive much needed information, advice, and support--even if they are scared of being outed.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2019 02:49PM by Tevai.

I'm sure you are right on the substance of GNPE's comment, but the underlying problem remains unresolved.

It's a serious issue.

What a coincidence!!!

Earlier this morning I got a call from my 46-year-old son, in Utah County. As soon as I answered, he asked, "Dad, did you live in Lakeview, on Geneva Road, 50 years ago, and were you called to be the priest quorum advisor?"

I said yes to the first part and no to the second; I was the EQP.

Then he went on to explain that wherever he's at, at the moment, he's wearing a shirt with our last name on it; it is not a common Hispanic name. A guy who looked to be in his 60s walked up to him and asked him, "Was your dad -my full name-, who lived in Lakeview Ward 50 years ago, and was the priest quorum advisor?"

So my son called me and we had a roundtable discussion on my son's speakerphone. I learned that the bishop who called me to be the EQP was James May, who later ended up as a stake patriarch. I'd forgotten his name.

The guy who walked up to my son, Byron, remembers me and I got his full name and telephone number. He was a priest 50 years ago. He remembers my temple wife and remembers me taking him skiing at Solitude and being one of the chaperones on a bus trip to the SF Bay area. And I didn't get the context, but he's remembered my full name all these years and said he mentioned me in a talk he gave a few years ago and Bishop May came up to him after and they chatted about me.

He also reminded me of the last name of the young couple who were our best friends there in Lakeward, the Blackburns. I remembered their first names, but not their last. And he said that the old folks' warehouse that it was our sad duty to visit to administer the sacrament is still there!

So I have now increased my ability to withstand the slings and arrows of outraged opponents to my mormon street cred!

Thanks, GNPE, for letting me get this off my chest!

I can prove both evidence of my circumcision and patriarchal blessing upon request.

Tevai=

all people who post here have some reason to spend their time here, Context helps us understand.

I'm not / didn't suggest that names/addresses/DOBs (all potential identifiers) be included. Yes, I agree on the 'safe place' theory, but there is a middle-ground.

I can tell you this: If RfM implements some kind of Shibboleth, I'm out.

Honkler,

There's some history here. There have been two or three posters who showed up, created tons of trouble, then would disappear for a while only to reappear with new monikers, and start the process over again. There have also been posters who ran two or three names simultaneously in order to applaud each other and make it appear that there was more support for their ideas than there actually was. These practices did a lot of damage. So when people speak about standards, they are asking that the mods to enforce the existing rules rather than adopt radically new ones.

I offer this because I don't think you have been here long enough to be familiar with the context.

Yeah, I can tell there's a lot going on, but here's what the OP said:

"I think posters who post >2 posts here should be required to post a public synopsis of the Mormon history, including how long they were a member or how long effected by ChurchCo associations, specifically telling the essentials of their contacts with ChurchCo, family & other."

I think that's wrong. Also, shortsighted. It would be easy for a troll to pass this litmus and then keep doing their thing.

Honklermaga: No worries. It is never going to happen. As others say, there's no expectation that only exmos post. Plus there's no test or standard one must meet in order to be welcome. Participation is based on merely following the board rules. Among the more prominent ones are getting along with others and choosing suitable topics to discuss. The board kind of self-regulates, in general, as posters respond to subjects in which they are interested and report what they see as problematic posts, which Admin then deals with if necessary.

If someone is not a good board citizen they are dealt with accordingly. I note that Admin seems to give space and time for some people to fit in, shape up, or resolve whatever posting issues they are having. In extreme cases of blatant rule-breaking or pot-stirring a person is asked to take a time out or even to cease participating.

It's too bad when that happens but, just like in the real world, some have hidden agendas or bad motives and yes, for sure they can roil up RfM. Some are fortunate to have time extended to them to try and change their ways. A few prove to be incorrigible and, unfortunately for them, are shown the door. It's too bad when that happens but it's in people's own hands, literally, what they type into the little box and let fly here at RfM.

I don't care for arguments and bad feelings myself. But for some it's part of recovery or just their personality and how they relate to others or present their viewpoints. I think it's only a tiny fraction that actually turn out to be trolls. For the rest, maybe they're just not fully cooked as an ex-whatever. I favour giving people time and space. Unless they are totally disruptive and obviously not here for "recovery", whatever that looks like for the rest of us.

But I highly doubt the solution here would ever be some kind of high bar people must meet in order to "qualify" to post. I try to avoid the snarls but do weigh in at times. It's often not worth the time expenditure.

I sympathize with what the OP says but think the proposed solution is a no-go. DOA in other words. Meanwhile, happy reading, everybody! And remember that such things usually come in waves. Eventually the tide goes out and peace descends. For a while. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2019 11:13AM by Nightingale.

I agree 100%. Also, you're a delightful addition to RFM, Nighty!

Thank you, Devoted Exmo! When I read your comment I was accompanying my mom to a medical appointment at the hospital, stressed to the max (due to missing work, feeling fatigued, and concern for Mom). You really gave me a boost. Much appreciated!

Well, if I had know that, I would have gone all the way. Sorry for your stress and hoping your mom in soon on the mend. You're a good daughter! At least in this arena, she's lucky to have you.

I'm so far past "recovery" from Mormonism that I don't actually have any business hanging out here. But I have become very fond of several members of the community. In many ways, we are like an extended family. We have come to know each other's backstories, and can offer cyber-hugs and support.

This is a very special, safe place. (Thanks, Eric K. and CZ!!)

Hey Catnip :) The most valuable source for newbies is oldies.

Daniel Peterson could pontificate for hours in this endeavor.

Fortunately, there is definitely a no-apologists rule. That type of discussion is endless and contentious. Usually nobody is going to change their point of view. Amazingly, though, it does happen. Some of the most prominent/visible apologists end up as exxies. Always amazing when it happens.

Now if only Kirby could come out of the closet.

"Tis a vacuumation to be desired! Aye, there's the rub!"

Did Judic say this?

No, cuz he would have gotten it right, as in "Tis a vacuummation devoutly to be wished, to die, to sleep..."

I think he’s here. As a regular poster.

Posters who are here just to troll, derail topics, stir up trouble, etc., should be forced to leave. We don't need proof of their Mormon history; their annoying posts give them away.

Posters who can prove their Mormon history, but are still disruptive and disrespectful, should also leave.

The guidelines are clearly posted. Those who can't follow the guidelines need to go.

Wait a minute...

As someone who had a very severe Anger Stage in my Mormon grief RfM was a good place for me to vent and for posters to call me out on going too far. I think it would reduce the mission of RfM to throw out people based upon some erratic or highly emotional behaviors.

Us exMormons can be very troubled people. I am one.

Did I say that we should throw ppl out?? No, I didn't.

So...trolls are okay?

Who said anything about venting? I'm talking about posters who are here mainly to annoy others and undermine RFM. We all know who they are.

heartbroken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We all know who they are.

I don't.

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> heartbroken Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > We all know who they are.
>
> I don't.


I don't either.

Stirring up contention and ill will is not a good reason in itself to write a post or to reply. That behavior if constant and characteristic should be discouraged.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2019 04:30PM by Cheryl.

I wish the Mormon proletariat to be free from the yoke of oppression and servitude. Does that make me a Mormon-cultural Marxist?

Hahahahahaha!!!

"Context is always important"

So is privacy. I thought the whole point of this board is so that we can comment on Mormon matters without giving ourselves away. There will be people here whose spouses are still in the church, or parents, children, siblings etc. Some of them may be active in some way as well.

The last time I tried to prove my credentials, I was trashed by cerrain members as having never been involved in the church at all. Another person picked me up because I wrote "an LDS" on another thread. (I would never say the abbreviation that way in speech, but it is just something I do automatically in writing becauss LDS effectively begins with a vowel - "eldee-ess").

I have been clear with certain aspects of my LDS life though. I never served a mission, did get endowed, never married, and also never came up through primary. So mission stories and primary songs mean little to me, but I can tell you my impressions of the temple or trying to round up inactives. I can also tell you about tedious meetings.

Please e-mail me.

Thanks,

CZ

Please email CZ Jordan. That might make things easier for us.

Jordan, you can email the mods without fear. In the past, I've emailed Susan I/S and CZ. They both know my real name and no one has ever outed me. It's not what this board is about. I've been here about 12 years now and my privacy has been well maintained.

I once emailed Susan and she actually complimented me!

And yes, I am one of those annoying nevermos who hangs around here. :D

You are knot annoying.

I always enjoy seeing you knotheadusc. You have a connection with Mormonism through no choice of your own and it has cast a huge shadow in your life as you've described through the years. You're a perfect example of a nevermo who is negatively affected by Mormonism, something you never chose to happen.

Fortunately, you've made the best of it and not let it get you down.

I've enjoyed reading your catch-ups and it was great to hear about the recent positive breakthroughs you and your husband have experienced.

You know you're more than welcome here. I'm not BIC either and Mormonism was just a blip along my life's path but I enjoy RfM and am still here many years after another exmo told me about the board. He is one of the few exmos I have ever met. I was fortunate to run into him at a postmo church we were both attending at one time. He moved away and we lost touch. I never thought I'd be here this long or that I would have the courage to post. Quite often it's embarrassing to me now that I chose to join such a church. It divides families, as in your case, which alone is a good reason to avoid it.

And, of course, there are many other reasons to stay away from it too.

Meanwhile, it's always great to hear from you! You're a good example of how nevermos can be valuable participants here.

"I never thought I'd be here this long or that I would have the courage to post."

There is something about being touched by a cult that cries for a community of former believers.

The commiseration. The understanding. The lexicon you know about. The dirty underbelly of those beliefs. It all rolls into one giant subconscious snake coiled around your psyche. It needs many feet to crush and counter its grip.

Well said, Elder Berry. Vivid word picture. Not that I want images of a snake inhabiting my head!

BTW, I don't remember your anger stage (as you call it). I only know that your board name made me laugh every time I saw it. So clever. I envision wine when I see you - a much nicer mental image than the hissy reptile you conjured up. :)

I had a few handles. When I was hot about the destruction of Mormonism I may not have used Elder Berry.

I came up with him because I was...

a) surprised it wasn't taken.
b) wanted to try out Poe's Law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

I wrote a bit of satire along the lines of Bishop Rood and their other satirical names.

I think HonestTBM is the only one doing this. I miss their posts.

I'll quit wine-ing ;)

I remember your satire and miss it. You were really good.

Of course you are still very good, just in a different way.

Thanks. I wasn't but thank you.

I have missed Bishop Rood! Can you bring him back for a visit?

I was a wreck when I found RFM. I was stuck in the "anger" stage, for many months. I still get angry all over again, at the whatever the cult comes up with next, for example, Nelson's decision about how children of gays should be treated. Some of my anger is fed by the ever-present shunning by my neighbors, and the Mormons' disrespect for women. I avoid Mormons in the workplace and in my personal life. When the cult stalks my children and grandchildren, I get angry. As long as Mormon nastiness and money-grabbing is aimed at me and my loved ones, I suppose I will continue to be angry.

The posters on RFM have been so patient with me, that I feel I need to give patience back to others. I have been here on RFM to see real changes in posters, for the better. Many have recovered completely. Many of the recovered ones have moved on. When someone seems confused or feels like he/she has been robbed, I understand. I'm "mostly" recovered, now, because I have made drastic changes in my life, and have had therapy, and have had the support of RFM. Some of us have no other support!

When someone is outraged, or they rant--just remember, "There, but for the grace of God, go I."

That said, there really is a difference between a crazed victim or an evil scam and an ordinary troll who is just bored and self-serving.

Maybe one of the RFM scholars could write up a guide for the rest of us, on "How to identify trolls." Include names for us, also!

I just want to say that this is a touching post. I remember when you came and have enjoyed watching your personality and role change.

On a different note, one element of what you say resonates particularly deeply: namely, the role of timely anger. Protecting yourself and your family is so important that there is only one appropriate response to a significant threat: a disciplined, confident force that, if challenged, can transform into aggressive fury.

The anger of the mother bear is a big part of her beauty. She need never apologize for that. In fact, she should feel as proud as her cubs undoubtedly feel protected.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2019 04:35AM by Lot's Wife.

You have wisdom, knotheadusc, and your writings are concise and clear.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Aw... you guys are making me blush.

As I have found out through blogging, it takes a certain amount of courage to publish your thoughts. You never know how people will take them. Some people will stop at nothing to shut other people up if they don't like their message. I recently moved two of my blogs to other spots on the web thanks to that issue.

I really try to maintain a broad perspective whenever possible. Everyone has a story. I also try to remain open to changing my mind, and it's great to see that people on this board, by and large, are capable of that, too. I recently changed my mind about my husband's younger daughter. I never thought I'd see the day.

When I first started sharing our story on RfM, a lot of people either didn't believe me or thought I was the source of the problem. I remember there were times when I was hesitant about writing about what we've been through, mainly because I got a lot of backlash from people who have been hurt by divorce and/or stepparents. Also, some of the stuff that has happened is kind of unbelievable, and people often like to blame victims.

I've stuck around RfM because, slowly but surely, people started to understand. It's really been nice to be able to provide positive updates... to let people know that what seems like a hopeless situation may not actually be one. Also... while I have never so much as set foot in a meetinghouse or a temple, it's definitely possible to be affected by a religion you aren't a part of. It's also possible to have some understanding of it.

Ex Mormons are some of my favorite people. I like this board because people are often funny and they have excellent taste in books and music. But, most of all, it's great to find a tribe of folks who understand how Mormonism can destroy families. I guess this is one thing I CAN thank my husband's ex wife for. If not for her, I probably never would have found RfM.

So, thanks to everyone. You've really been a big help!

I repeat that your step-daughter's reaching out to your husband is an absolutely wonderful thing. We share your joy and hope that time brings further reconciliations.

Thanks for what you bring here.

Privacy is a big thing here. Admin just doesn't slip. CZ is the Fort Knox of info, it just ain't gonna go any further. Over my years of being Admin I learned to ONLY think of people by their published screen names. Hell, there are some here I have known for decades (their babies are now - gulp - DRIVING) and I still only think of them by their screen names. #1 rule here, NEVER give out the info of others even if they have in the past. If it is not YOUR info shut your pie hole :)

I think when people post “authoritatively” about politics, and correct and belittle others, they should be required to post their credentials. I think when people psychoanalyse other posters, they should post their credentials. I think when people presume to read other posters’ minds, they should provide evidence of their supernatural abilities. These are all real problems, but when one poster does them all, they should post all their credentials to demonstrate their true Grand Poohbahness.

These problems are real and I think those who won't curb these behaviors need to be banned for a few days. If that doesn't work, they should be banned for longer periods of time until they give up those bad behaviors.

,,,I don't have to show you no stinkin' credentials!"

How are you, or anybody (poster or mod) going to assess credentials? The only possible solution is Lot's Wife's uncanny spiritual power of discernment.

(Just for record, my credentials: a (pure) BS degree from the School of Hard Knocks (Summa cum lousy), and a Masters degree from the Institute of Higher Humility (C'est magnifique cum laude).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2019 04:02AM by caffiend.

"Who said anything about venting? I'm talking about posters who are here mainly to annoy others and undermine RFM. We all know who they are."

Smells like Mormonism to me, complaining about the anti's.

Are we to testify endlessly that RFM is true? Not everything here is.

Most boards have an "in" crowd, which spouts certain beliefs, and if anyone challenges them, they gang up on them, calling them trolls or whatever to discount them.

Which is why I've never been a good board member, or any group for that matter.

Free Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Smells like Mormonism to me, complaining about the
> anti's.
>
> Are we to testify endlessly that RFM is true?
> Not everything here is.
>
> Most boards have an "in" crowd, which spouts
> certain beliefs, and if anyone challenges them,
> they gang up on them, calling them trolls or
> whatever to discount them.
>
> Which is why I've never been a good board member,
> or any group for that matter.

Thank you for demonstrating what a post from someone who's only here to annoy others looks like.

You should have seen the wreck I was when I started posting here during the iron age. I had to be warned a couple of times. I wasn't so subtle as I am now. (heh heh)

Maybe no 'ultimate' resolution, but at least this thread got the issue on the table...

thanks for all posts / responses!!!