When you try to engage a leader of most any responsibility, they'll dodge/avoid/slide out of substantive conversation regarding any shortcoming or reasonable question about doctrine or policies.
Mormon leaders have become Masters of this, sometimes I think they have a book on how to dodge questions / objections!!
I wonder about that "book"! I do know that Mormons have had assertiveness training in the MTC. A former instructor in the MTC came to a business seminar, and he had all kinds of dialogs, that we were supposed to memorize. Yes, they were written in script form--exactly what to say in reply to any unwanted question--how to manipulate others--how to sell yourself--how to avoid having to be straightforward--how to ease a client into accepting the unacceptable, how to deflect objections. It was all there! I was new to Utah, and I recognized these responses from Mormon ward members. I memorized all the manipulative techniques, out of self-preservation, knowing I would have to deal with these jerks. The most important assertiveness was in standing up for my children, against Mormon physical abuse. We ended up leaving the cult. For us, there was no other way to end the abuse.
I believe this to be a great skill most of us have acquired and/or enhanced as ex-Mormons (or ex-JWs or ex- other similar groups) - the ability see manipulation. This can apply someone trying to sell us something, a donation to a cause, relationships, join a religion etc. I feel like I am more in tune to tactics that can adversely affect me as a result of the skills I finally starting using in deconstructing Mormonism and in how I was manipulated. Clearly I am more of a skeptic, which I believe to be a good thing. Facts matter. When straightforward questions are immediately avoided, it is time to investigate more thoroughly or move on.
That's exactly how I see things now. Having been in TSCC and then finding out the truth, and then leaving TSCC has enabled both me and my husband to figure out exactly where someone is coming from in short time. I'm much more of a skeptic also; better able to see the forest for the trees now. I always have in the back of mind, something that a person had said a few months ago: "A straight up person is gonna give you a straight up answer."
GNPE Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I'm sure we've thought of this... > > When you try to engage a leader of most any > responsibility, they'll dodge/avoid/slide out of > substantive conversation regarding any shortcoming > or reasonable question about doctrine or > policies. > > > Mormon leaders have become Masters of this, > sometimes I think they have a book on how to dodge > questions / objections!!
How many times do we see this outside a cult setting? It seems to happen all the time now in everyday life. If you complain about service from a company, you either end up speaking to a computer or someone in a call center who knows none of the answers and can solve nothing. It is notable that the LDS has done something like that for a while - sending out inexperienced young grunts (sorry to any RMs here!) with few of the answers, who are near the bottom of the LDS food chain.
babyloncansuckit Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I started wondering about that when the Russians > accused the Mormons of being too authoritarian.
That's more to do with politics. The Orthodox Church has used its influence to persecute other churches and the LDS is also American. They also went after the Baptists in the Communist period for being American.
act like we don't know what they are doing when they invite everyone to a neighborhood party or they text you and say, "I know I get tired of being home all the time and I like getting out, so would you like to go to the R.S. birthday party dinner with me?"
I actually did have a "friend" tell me that he thinks life is a crap shoot, but that the leaders wouldn't tell you that. He is the same guy who told me it was my fault my ex cheated as I must not be giving him enough sex. It wasn't his fault. He gave me an example of a guy in his ward who frequented prostitutes and it was that guy's wife's fault. I reeducated him on that issue too many years later and I no longer talk to him.
I knew him for a long, long time, and when my life was a big mess or when my cousin died at age 37, I asked him why I should go to church, why should I believe anymore. He said all he could tell me is that he knew it was the right thing to do, but that he felt that things like my cousin dying had to do with life being a crap shoot, that it wasn't God's will that she died, that he was probably crying about her death also. I don't know how someone can believe in mormonism and say that life is a crap shoot. I do believe that he goes because he wants to. Nothing in his life to make him leave it. He benefits more from it (he is a leader) than others do.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2019 09:13AM by cl2.
>>He is the same guy who told me it was my fault my ex cheated as I must not be giving him enough sex.
cl2, you certainly had a special case with your husband being gay.
One of my college buddies was just your basic hound dog. He was a lot of fun to be around, but was incapable of being faithful. I asked him about this once, and he said he just craved variety. I think that many young people grow out of that mind set, but he never did. It's not always about what's going on at home, some people are just prone to wander. His wife eventually caught on to him and divorced him.
is he never even asked how much sex we had. I felt guilty about it. Just how much sex did I need to put out? For a gay/straight couple, we had a pretty active sex life. I know, hard to believe. I had people say to me, "Well, at least he was able to do it once" since we have our twins, and he and I would chuckle. He is not bi--and I know it without a doubt.
When I came here and asked gays how much sex it would take from me to keep my gay husband from cheating and most of them laughed.
I told the guy how hurtful that was a few years later and told him I was cutting off our friendship, which we had had for over 30 years. Told him what the gays on this board had told me.
My ex can't be faithful even with gays. For many reasons. Living a double life was part of the problem. Not all of it, but part of it. Many reasons. I wish he could be as I want him to find someone and be happy and stable emotionally. I worry a lot about him.
Well, when daily one must live a lie and flatly deny reality regardless of what is witnessed, it comes as second nature.
Denial is the most primitive form of psychological defense but takes tremendous energy to sustain. Why else must they surround themselves with like-deludeds, where the presence of even one seer-of-truth is catastrophically threatening? This is the real reason for the behavior.