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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 08, 2019 05:08PM

I came across this comment and it reminded me so much of my time going to church.

"Dev • 4 years ago
One time when I was in the temple, someone told me that they had overheard the prophet say he feels like the ordinance work done for the dead has about a 90% success rate. Also, people have a perfect sense of clarity when they die. This life is more like a foggy dream state and the next is different. While those who have gone astray and die go to spirit prison, but since the lord has sent missionaries to them it can't be all bad? The person your concerned for May have already repented and could be anxiously awaiting their work to be done. I recommend asking the Lord about them and see how you feel. y awaiting their work to be done. I recommend asking the Lord about them and see how you feel. "
https://askgramps.org/why-are-we-not-encouraged-to-pray-for-those-in-the-spirit-world/

Like these Mormons overheard their prophet talking and even if they had are they kidding? A 90% success rate? I laughed out loud when I read this. It was so good I had to share it.

Have you had anyone tell you that they heard from someone that they had overheard the prophet saying something so profound? I mean, wow! No wonder they build so many temples! With a success rate like that there would have to be temples dotting the world to bring it down to like 87%.

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Posted by: CrispingPin ( )
Date: August 08, 2019 05:16PM

Yeah, I remember hearing the 90% claim back in the day.

Considering the fact that many departed souls have had their ordinances done many times over, the actual rate is probably much higher than 100%.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 08, 2019 05:51PM

CrispingPin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, I remember hearing the 90% claim back in the
> day.

You did? I never heard it before. It would have sounded weird then as well as now. Like does the prophet get angel-delivered reports? Does the Holy Ghost whisper the numbers on the same day of the month?

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Posted by: CrispingPin ( )
Date: August 08, 2019 06:04PM

I assume the source of this information is the same source from which all prophets get their information...they pull it out of their lower posterior (but now they use a lighted pen).

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 08, 2019 06:23PM

Their pen really helps with their darkness down there.

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Posted by: logged out again ( )
Date: August 08, 2019 06:26PM

On the other hand,

https://www.mormonwiki.com/Spirit_Prison

"Now, people also keep their character when they enter the spirit world. Realistically, someone who spent their entire life rejecting Jesus Christ and His gospel will probably not accept His gospel in the spirit world. Death does not change our natures. When a wicked person like this enters the spirit world, the guilt and pain of recognizing his or her own distance from God is tremendous. As the Book of Mormon says, 'The demands of divine justice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord, and doth fill his breast with guilt, and pain, and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever' (Mosiah 2:38). 'Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world' (Alma 34:34)."

Also, read up on Bruce R's discussion of the Second Chance Theory. Kind of hard to get to 90% if you accept this:

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2184304

also in his famous "Seven Deadly Heresies" address:

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/bruce-r-mcconkie/seven-deadly-heresies/

"Heresy four: There are those who believe that the doctrine of salvation for the dead offers men a second chance for salvation. …There is no such thing as a second chance to gain salvation."

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 07:47PM

I think this ’attitude’ comes from Mosiah, in the BMofJS, where it is mentioned that the spirit (attitude) that possesses you at death will be the same attitude you'll have after you cross over.

And it used to be preached that the crossing over process will be seamless, and so natural, that people aren't shocked, thus no need reflect on one’s life, much less repent.

Of course this mormon version of the death process removes all the motivation for all the woo-woo stuff involving ghosts and restless spirits.

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Posted by: lurking in ( )
Date: August 08, 2019 06:30PM

No internet access. (Which surprises me a little.) Or maybe they're just blocking the anti-Mormon sites. (Which wouldn't surprise me at all.)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2019 07:32PM by lurking in.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: August 08, 2019 06:30PM

IF there were a mormon heaven, those who chose not to join won't join in whatever comes next. I'm sure my work will be done as soon as my body hits the grave if they can.

My daughter posted something today about someone who left the church and then returned after they had hit rock bottom and, until you hit that point, you won't find your way back. I guess I haven't hit rock bottom. I'd like to inform them otherwise. It was rock bottom that sent me out of the church.

If it makes her happy to rebaptize me and seal me to her father, so be it.

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Posted by: LJ12 ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 12:10PM

I can’t completely understand the objection some people have over mormons doing work for the dead when it isn’t wanted. I mean, it is a bit offensive, and of course quite arrogant. But it’s also meaningless and pointless, so also kinda ‘whatever’?

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 09:47AM

Some people are not offended by it. I, however, am.

I am a nevermo. My father's family was almost entirely Anglican/Episcopalian. The Mormons dead-dunked my paternal great-grandmother and namesake. She was raised Episcopalian, married an Episcopalian, and had all of her children baptized by an Episcopalian circuit minister. Absolutely *none* of her parents, great-grandparents, or descendants are or were Mormon. And yet the Mormons dead-dunked her. I was able to see the information before Family Search closed it off to outsiders.

I want the Mormons to get their hands off of my family. Yes, I find it *highly* offensive. My GG already had a proper baptism according to her beliefs. She lived her life, married, and raised her family according to her beliefs. The Mormons have no right to negate that in any way whatsoever.

The Mormons also did very sloppy genealogy. GG was dead-dunked no less than three times. In each case, the dates of her birth and death were off my a day or two. This may not matter to the Mormons (why would it? -- she is not *their* direct relative,) but it matters to ME.

The Jewish people have been able to get through to the Mormon church to some degree, but as for the rest of us, we are on our own. And yes, it is extremely offensive to some of us.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 09:16PM

He went to great lengths to make sure they didn't know he died so they wouldn't do his temple work.

His grandfather was a Danite and came to Utah with the pioneers. He eventually left the church and went back east to live.

My boyfriend's father didn't have an obituary or a funeral. He knew more about mormonism that I do.

I don't care if my daughter does baptize us and seal us if it is her because I know why she would do it. Anyone else, it is like the ministering, etc. They don't know me or my story and I'd like them to leave me alone. It might be more offensive if you lived in Utah and saw how crazy mormon culture is.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: August 08, 2019 06:30PM

What’s the success rate of fantasizing about making out with a porn star? Probably close to 100%.

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Posted by: Shinehah ( )
Date: August 08, 2019 09:08PM

If there's an after life and the people there can see what goes on in this life, I would imagine there is much loud laughter about what goes on in the temple.

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Posted by: LJ12 ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 12:12PM

This really made me smile. Yeah :-)

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: August 08, 2019 10:55PM

that means that the "plan of salvation" (as conceptualized by Mormons) is extremely unintelligent.

If everything is clearer and conversions to the "gospel" are so much more efficiently accomplished AFTER death, doesn't that mean that life in this earthly realm is mostly a gross waste of time and energy?

Most people have good intentions and want to do the right thing. The problem they have with Mormonism (accepting the "gospel" as preached by Mormons) is that it is not at all clear to most people living in this world that embracing Mormonism is the "right thing".

The founding stories of Mormonism come across like classic bullsh*t stories told by a con artist. "So, yeah, an angel told me where to find the golden plates. That's right. Pure gold. Where are they now? Well...uh...see, it's like this. After I translated the golden plates by looking at a magic rock in my hat, the angel took the golden plates up to heaven. I'd love to show them to you, but they're gone now. By the way, you're daughter is looking mighty fine today. What is she...like 15 or something? 13, you say. Well, while we're on the topic of revelation, I've got a really important one for you...."

So if there was any truth to any of it, we can reasonably accuse God of hiding the ball and playing games with the whole "you have to accept the gospel" scheme. Then we find out that Uncle Fred who faithfully paid tithing all his life and sacrificed all of his time and energy to building up the church was a fool. Why? Because Uncle Ralph who had a much more fun life while completely ignoring the church and its demands decided to accept the gospel and temple ordinances after he died...thanks to Uncle Fred doing Uncle Ralph's temple work. Turned out it was much easier, less painful and more efficient for Uncle Ralph to do it that way. Uncle Fred is just a glorious sucker.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 09:18PM

"If everything is clearer and conversions to the "gospel" are so much more efficiently accomplished AFTER death, doesn't that mean that life in this earthly realm is mostly a gross waste of time and energy?"

Amen to that!

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Posted by: Hedning ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 12:38AM

It was actually brand new and called the LTM when I spent two months there.

You can never leave, unless headed off to tracting hell.

I sure as hell don't ever want to go back.

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 04:27AM

Probably zero.

Nobody comes back from death to give a full report. :D

How any church leader can predict a rate of success is beyond me.

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 09:00AM

"This life is more like a foggy dream state" I wonder how much of that is caused by lds inc. actively pissing off it's members? Think of all the malls built. The private jet services, the summer houses of GAs, the hush money spilling out through Kirkon and McKonkie, the stock market speculations.

Seems like lds inc. is doing a pretty good job getting everyone foggy!

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 10:45AM

Having three missionary children I would say their missionary efforts success rate is dismal. And like Wally posted why not just scratch it and just let the dead carry the conversion task...let their Uncle Fred's be the missionaries … to the dead.

Oh, the dead aren't active tithe payers.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2019 10:47AM by Elder Berry.

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Posted by: CrispingPin ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 12:48PM

Check out these words revealed in D&C Section 137:

"All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God;

Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom;

And I also beheld that all children who die before they arrive at the years of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven."

So, the easy way to super VIP heaven (AKA the Celestial Kingdom) is to die before you're eight years old or don't hear about the restored gospel. No need for all that testing and trials or mortality--no need to prove yourself worthy.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 01:23PM

Thus the 90%. Who could refuse?

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: August 09, 2019 09:54PM

"Work for the dead" is one of the stupidest things about Mormonism, especially since we've found out that it is manipulated to make it appear that more is going on than actually is happening. By that I mean that the temples recycle names to keep "patrons" busy. A dead person is often baptised and re-baptised multiple times. I mean like 10-20 times.

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Posted by: jay ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 12:41AM

I need more information to venture a guess.

Do you need to be fully submerged?

If so, how long do you need to stay under water?

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Posted by: Eric K ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 10:37AM

How can one calculate a percentage when the denominator is zero?

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 09:11PM

I always confuse the denominator with the denominatrix! I know one of them is on top, but which one?


ETA: And which one goes into the other?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2019 09:12PM by elderolddog.

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Posted by: Levi ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 10:31PM

I remember thinking about this when I was a believer.

My mother lived and died mormon missionary work.

It was a HUGE thing in the family. She was a mishie, so was her sister and both brothers. One brother was forbidden to come home from his mission by my grandfather on my grandfathers deathbed, so be it.

My mom got sick, life threatening sick, 6 months before I came home, I would have come home in a heartbeat, but her and the mission president overruled me using their spiritual weaponry.

Because of a incoming group issue, I had to actually go home 3 weeks later and my mom was dead within 6 months. In addition to being the Singles Ward Executive Secretary, I threw myself into temple work.

When I say I "threw myself into", I'm not kidding. I was obsessed mormon temples then, and I'm obsessed with them now, but for different reasons.

Here's an idea of how into it I was: When my mom asked me what I wanted for Christmas, I told her I wanted my own temple costume. I knew it would be her last Christmas gift to me, and I wanted something that would really mean something. Her temple apron was was of much older style that the old people used to wear. Darker green, heavier silk fabric, She'd been using it for 30 years. perhaps she made it herself, but I don't think so. When we went shopping for my temple robes, I chose for myself the ladies apron. You remember, the one with the cut-out leaves? Typically the men wore the square ones and the ladies would wear the cut out ones.

I chose this, because at that moment I realized that I would, at some point, be burying her and I thought that maybe I'll swap aprons with her. I'll bury her in mine and I'll use her's for temple work.

THAT'S HOW DEEP I WAS IN.

I went alone or with friends who would come with me every single Wednesday at the 5:30 session in the Seattle temple. I did the :30 because the film they showed at the bottom of the hour had the really hot Satan.

Then on Saturday, IF there was a ward or a temple night scheduled I'd attend then as well, typically once a month each.

I've done the math and that means that between 1991 and 1998 when I stopped going I had gone through at least 400 sessions and probably closer to 500. If there was a temple anywhere I was going on vacation, I'd pack those goddamned temple clothes and was soooo proud to have been to 18 of them.

I would sit and ponder life in the celestial room. I realized that it's a much luckier existence to never hear of this fucking church. If you lived, never heard of the silly thing, then died. You're dead. You have to KNOW that you're dead. Then here along come peeps and say "Bitch! You're dead! showing you pics, "This is where you were", and here's where WE ARE NOW." with arms wide they would say "This is how the universe works!"

And how could you possibly deny that?

500 temple sessions.

What a colossal waste of time! The only good to come of it was fan of Schonbek lighting and Lalique bowls.

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Posted by: LJ12 ( )
Date: August 11, 2019 07:33AM

I’m so sorry you went through this and lost your mother. It’s totally understandable that you did this. I was similarly obsessed with going to the temple but didn’t get to go as much. The thing I regret is spending so much time on this stuff when I could have been with my dad (not mormon) who was very ill and died the year before I left. The Morg does not care about families; they seemed indifferent when he died. I wonder if it’s due to the obsession with doing work for the dead. This obsession I believe is partly due to how easy it is dealing with converting people who are gone, and have no say in the matter.

I bet my brother has done the temple work for my dad. This ONLY just occurred to me. I previously posted that I would be indifferent because it’s all so ridiculous, and Summer counteracted what I said. Actually, I take it back, I was wrong. I’m probably offended/disgusted.

It sure is difficult knowing how much time we wasted. But we are more wise because of it now. It’s one small and obvious consolation anyway.

“I did the :30 sessions because the film they showed had the really hot Satan” lol. Thank you for reminding me of that. I remember always hoping for that version. (The dude with dark hair?)

It just shows how boring it was that I had a huge crush on satan.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 12, 2019 01:12PM

Queer eye for a Satan guy? Which one was he?

https://wheatandtares.org/2017/07/30/best-satan/

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Posted by: Levi ( )
Date: August 12, 2019 03:32PM

LOL it was Darryl Yeager.

Michael Ballam was just too goddamned dramatic with his cape swish and all. Damned gays! :-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2019 03:34PM by Levi.

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Posted by: shylock ( )
Date: August 12, 2019 02:00PM

As silly as it all is... The Morg Inc. dead dunking people is highly insulting. The church is maintaining they have control over your body after death even when you don't belong to that cult...

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: August 12, 2019 03:18PM

Obviously, I don't care either way...

But what the heck was Paul going on about when he asked, "Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?"


Los mormones get all smug in the face when we question this silly practice and then just ask the same question I just asked...

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