Due to high levels of gun violence.

It is no longer considered safe for foreigners to travel here due to the recent spate of gun violence.

"The travel advisory, issued Wednesday afternoon, calls for visitors to "exercise caution and have an emergency contingency plan when traveling throughout the USA."

It warns travelers to remain vigilant at all times and to avoid places where large groups congregate, including places of worship, schools or nightclubs, all locations that have been targeted recently.

"Depending on the traveler's gender identity, race, country of origin, ethnic background, or sexual orientation, they may be at higher risk of being targeted with gun violence, and should plan accordingly," the advisory adds.

The human rights groups issued the travel warning in midst of "high levels of gun violence," which Amnesty International referred to as a human rights crisis."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2019/08/06/mass-shootings-force-foreign-countries-issue-us-travel-warnings/1930215001/?fbclid=IwAR2WmfVYoYVeXsXrvVcyAWqexgXetvhFWltYRMTV6daUqVPgbjG_1Y6D674



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2019 09:25AM by Amyjo.

Both of my children are ex-pats, and they no longer feel safe coming back to visit America. They're safer where they're living than they are here.

That's a sad commentary for their native country, but it's reality.

They're not wrong.

My synagogue has to hire a policeman as do all the other synagogues in my metro area, and our Jewish community centers, etc just so life can go on relatively normal as before where people can feel somewhat safe to go about their usual business and worship.

We pay extra to have the security detail. It's a cost you cannot really put a price on, though, oy?

One woman where I worship lived through the Holocaust. She was two years old when it swept through Romania.

A couple years ago there was a bomb threat at the Jewish community center where she was working out in the aquatic center. Everyone had to evacuate the building at once. She had to go outside without any clothes on, and only a towel covering her body. She told me she felt it was the Holocaust all over again.

Yes, I imagine it must be very tough for the Jewish people, who are often a target of hate crimes. And even more so for those who lived through the Holocaust, or had parents who lived through the Holocaust.

Compared to places like Mexico, and other 3rd world countries...placing a Travel Warning on the US seems a little over the top to me.

Oh, I don't know. I have to wonder how the mass shootings must appear to other first world countries. They must think that Americans have lost their minds.

Plus, I wonder what it will take to get the gun lobbies in the U.S. to wake up. Maybe it will help if we start to lose tourist dollars.

The violence is offputting, but being treated as a criminal by border control is offputting.

As a third, a lot of the USA is also pretty ugly too TBH. With exceptions like parts of Utah or Cape Cod.

So what's with the "Ted 2"? Can't you use your own usual Moniker? I have a feeling I know who you usually are, and you are bothered by my comment. That's sad. I'm sorry.

I think 98% of the good people that come through the border are hard-working, freedom loving, family oriented, and moral. It's that 2% that come into the US that are of a criminal element and mind that is concerning. The border folks are follow US regulation, that has been established by US law. I am sorry that you can't pick and choose what laws you will respect or what our government should follow. Lobby your congressman, start a blog, and get your great ideas out there so you can be a voice of change. Even consider moving from the US, and going to another country that's better? So lot's of options my friend.

So your family (or loved ones) have not been victimized by a criminal alien I take it? Mine has. We have. Let me tell you it sucks. Perhaps your perception of the screening for that 2% would change if you were victimized by someone entering illegal. Or maybe a terrorist sneaking in doesn't really bother you?

Yes, that would surely suck. Probably as much as being victimized by Brigham Young and his criminal invaders. If only 19th century Homeland Security had more guns.

You seem a disingenuous with your, "yeah that would surely suck", and then strawmaning my remarks into a gun control debate. My daughter was raped by an illegal alien. I think screening there per US Border law is needed. Go f" yourself.

I am sorry that happened to your daughter, Ted. I hope she is okay.

Sorry, the Ted 2 thing is a bit of a movie joke.

I don't appreciate being treated like dirt when I come to spend money in the USA. No other country treats you that badly except bona fide dictatorships. It's dumb too - which criminal is going to admit doing the things they ask? I seriously think that I would find it easier to enter the USA illegally than be given twenty questions and being made to queue up for hours on end. Why are they asking me about WW2 when I wasn't even born then?

It also feels ironic that they treat tourists/business people like that when the USA has a serious problem with its own homegrown violence.

Yeah, there are some things I like about the USA, but to be honest, I can get most of the same things elsewhere which is why I stopped going.

Very true. Mexico is a violent place, the police are corrupt and steal from people (especially Gringos) all the time. What's especially bad is that they take away guns from ordinary people. So only the criminals have the guns. Then there is the crises in Tijuana and Ciudad Juarez, Thousands of homeless people waiting to see if they can cross the border.

American travel warning is pretty silly.

The criminals are the ordinary people.

Ted 2 said: "a lot of the USA is also pretty ugly too TBH"

Please move to another country. Why would you be so miserable in a country that you think is ugly, off-putting, dangerous, etc. You just seem so miserable here. Please move to Mexico for God's sake. Enjoy your life. Getting out of the US by plane, automobile, train, or boat - should be a no brainer...just get out of this terrible place NOW. Stop complaining and get out. It's really that simple. Sheesh.

Ted Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ted 2 said: "a lot of the USA is also pretty ugly
> too TBH"
>
> Please move to another country. Why would you be
> so miserable in a country that you think is ugly,
> off-putting, dangerous, etc. You just seem so
> miserable here. Please move to Mexico for God's
> sake. Enjoy your life. Getting out of the US by
> plane, automobile, train, or boat - should be a no
> brainer...just get out of this terrible place NOW.
> Stop complaining and get out. It's really that
> simple. Sheesh.

Erm I hate to break this to you, but I already do live in another country. I've been to the USA a few times - I get better value for money, better historical sites and less personal risk in many other countries.

That's another thing I don't like about American values - it's all "democracy" and freedom of choice until it comes down to the bone and then it's "get out of my country" and "if you don't like it go elsewhere". Guess what? I did. I can go to Australia, Canada or New Zealand if I want to visit a beautiful English speaking country, which is friendlier and less exceptionalist. I can visit Turkey or Nepal, see history and natural beauty and my money goes further.

Also I wouldn't boast about American public transport, because that's a low point of your country too compared to other rich nations.

America has little to brag about, but thank ghawd for welfare, or else no one would be trying to break in!!

Or maybe there are things residents of other countries see worth the efforts they undertake to get here?

Weird, huh?

It probably depends in part on what country you are starting out from.

Me? I like Liechtenstein. Thanks for asking!

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> America has little to brag about, but thank ghawd
> for welfare, or else no one would be trying to
> break in!!
>
> Or maybe there are things residents of other
> countries see worth the efforts they undertake to
> get here?
>
> Weird, huh?

The USA has the best PR unit in the world - it's called Hollywood. I've just watched a corny American film - "She's All That" - which is set in a high school where everyone is rich, good looking and lives in a big house. Foreigners watch these films, believe them and head to the USA... and then find it's not "all that".

US welfare is not much compared to Europe or some other parts of the world - healthcare for one. If I was just going for welfare, I wouldn't pick the USA.

I think people go to the USA because they think they can become rich. That's a bigger draw. (Some of them are fleeing dangerous countries too)

Jordan? CZ wants you to email him...

Good catch.

CZ asks Jordan to email him and HWint stops posting. Jordan lies low for a while, then someone called Uncle Benson shows up for the first time, writing Canadian English and attacking me. I call him on his identity, and he disappears.

Now Ted 2 appears, using British/Canadian phrases like "queue up for hours," which indicates both his nationality and the fact that he enters the US by car and not by airplane. Given his vocabulary and politics, it's a fair bet he is entering from Canada and not Mexico.

Seven or eight years ago it was Jordan, then CanuckExMo, then HWint and LogicalCanuckExMo, then Jordan again, then Uncle Benson, and now Ted 2. All with the same politics, Canadian vocabulary, syntax, and sensitivities.

Jordan, CZ wants you to email him.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2019 10:23PM by Lot's Wife.

Thank you for your response on my thread. Your answer was helpful.

In response to your comment on this thread, it's refreshing to see the U.S. get an official assessment for the alarming level of gun violence. It may not compare to third-world countries, but it's unacceptable for a first-world country. Our country deserves to have the warning issued. It's completely fair. It'd be great if it actually deterred the violence as a side effect, but we all know nothing's going to change soon, so the warning only matters for acknowledgement.

The sad thing is that the US really DOES compare to Third World countries on this score.

Ted Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Compared to places like Mexico, and other 3rd
> world countries...placing a Travel Warning on the
> US seems a little over the top to me.

The USA is much more dangerous than most developed countries.

And they ask you stupid questions at border control that take over an hour to get through (are you a drug dealer? Have you committed genocide?) and they take your fingerprints and photograph like a criminal.

That's why I don't visit there anymore. My money goes further elsewhere and I don't get played for a sucker.

I read about an old man who clicked “yes” to one of those dumb “are you a terrorist?” questions by mistake. Now he can’t fly anymore.

Wait--I thought I was the only one.

Murder rates in 2010:

Measured by murder rates, the US was in 2010 the 15th worst of over 200 countries. The only places further down the list were Brazil, India, Mexico, Ethiopia, Indonesia, Nigeria, South Africa, Columbia, Russia, Pakistan, the Congo, China and Venezuela. But the numbers for the United States were only 1% better than for Venezuela. As for countries ranking immediately higher than the US, they were Uganda, the Ivory Coast, Tanzania and the Sudan.*


----------------
Murder rates in 2015:

In this year the US fared better--83rd worst out of over 200 countries. It ranked slightly higher than Somalia and Kyrgyzstan and slightly worse than Kazakhstan, Cuba, Niger, and Rwanda.** Of course, these data are from 2015, well before the recent surge in mass murders, so the US will have slid back down again.


---------------
Conclusion:

By most measures the US is not a developing country. Gauged by murder rates, however, it has long been among the bottom half of nations. In some years the United States ranked among the very worst; in other years, it fared roughly as well as the Central Asian Islamic dictatorships, Cuba, and Rwanda. At any point along this road it would have been reasonable to describe the US, on this single dimension, as a Third World Country and perhaps to have issued travel advisories.

The fact that over the last couple of years mass murders in public places have been occurring weekly will have pushed the US considerably farther down the rankings and have rendered the case for travel warnings compelling. This level of fear, friends, is how people in the most violent (bottom 20 or so) Third World countries live.





*https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Violent-crime/Murder-rate

**https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5/rankings



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2019 07:00PM by Lot's Wife.

in b4 ~ stay safe exmos ~

I issue myself a travel advisory upon leaving the front door outbound.

Consider:
There are now routinely survivors of one mass shooting being caught up in yet another - and sometimes losing their lives.

I’m not surprised. It’s scary here. Risky activities used to be things like rock climbing and sky diving. Now it’s grocery shopping.

Think that's a bit extreme. You are still a lot safer in a WalMart than you are driving your car on the road.

The great thing about per capita data is that they don't say anything about Walmart or about the locations of the 28 mass murders in January, the 22 in February, the 21 in March, the 34 in April, the 43 in May, the 48 in June, the 52 in July, and the however many in August. The data show that the United States is by far the most sanguinary country in the developed world and one of the worst in the entire world.

If Americans are comfortable in that situation, that's fine for them. But most of the people in the other rich countries are not. In fact, the State Department issues travel advisories for scores of countries with lower rates of homicide and overall violence than the United States. Americans tolerate far more risk domestically than they do when traveling abroad.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2019 10:02PM by Lot's Wife.

“You are still a lot safer in a WalMart than you are driving your car on the road.”

But only if you stay out of the junk food section.

They have these little 50-cent fruit pies that are SO tasty! But I haven't had one in a number of months because there's no way I could stop at one.

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/blog/highest-murder-rate-citie

Interestingly, bloody Chicago (at 16.9 murders/K) doesn't make the list. But with that large a population, it's gross (pun intended) body count outclasses the other 30.

Baltimore is punches hard outside its class.

Here's to you, East St. Louis! You're number one!

This reminds me of a funny sequence in the movie "Lord of War." They are in a violent, war-torn African country with child soldiers and no rule of law. A warlord has just summarily and brutally executed someone for a minor offense. Two guys are watching TV coverage of the OJ Simpson case. One turns to the other and says "When I get to America, I will not live in Brentwood."

That is funny.

Aloysius Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This reminds me of a funny sequence in the movie
> "Lord of War." They are in a violent, war-torn
> African country with child soldiers and no rule of
> law. A warlord has just summarily and brutally
> executed someone for a minor offense. Two guys are
> watching TV coverage of the OJ Simpson case. One
> turns to the other and says "When I get to
> America, I will not live in Brentwood."

:D