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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 13, 2019 02:56PM

What a bag of steaming, stinking shiz of blame passed down to local leaders. No blame applied to top leaderships. <-remove p and add t.


“I’ve seen leaders be confused by people who leave the Church,”

“The leader is committed, has strong feelings of belief, and has sacrificed their time. So to some extent it seems so outside of their experience that someone would leave the Church who once had those same feelings.”

https://religionnews.com/2019/08/09/every-mormon-leader-and-teacher-and-parent-should-read-this-book/

His statement is basically a boiled down version of what it currently shaping up to be the blame game for a ginormous "faith crisis" happening in Mormonism.

Only local leaders are to blame and they are blameless because they are too devoted and devout to understand that the over-simplification of "sin and offense" is a cop out.

Really? These are inspired leaders to help the hoi poi figure stuff out in the wake of The Internet flood of Mormon history and Mormon meddling?

Seriously? No top leadership can take the blame for promoting this offensive reductionist reason for people leaving? I've personally heard them throw out the "offended" reason many times. The "sin" reason isn't a GC/PC reason. They have to go full-Christers at their benevolently bully pulpit down in SLC.

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Posted by: Breeze ( )
Date: August 13, 2019 04:05PM

So, the high-up Mormon leaders claim to be so holy that they can't imagine anyone who once had "those same feelings" leaving Mormonism? So--they admit that some things are "outside of their experience... Hmmmmm. So, these leaders don't work from revelation or inspiration, after all? It's much like Hinckley, a "Living Prophet" saying, "I don't know...."

LOL--at least someone is finally admitting that the old geezers (who live in mansions) are out-of-touch with the masses (who live in lesser dwellings).

But the whole subject is nonsense, if Mormons believe their church runs on revelations from God. Are those suffering a "faith crisis" outside of God's experience? Doesn't the Mormon God see all and know all?

I hate the term "faith crisis". There's no such thing!
There's no such thing as "being offended."

The more I learn about the nasty underbelly of Mormonism, the more I dislike liars!

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: August 13, 2019 04:55PM

What a difference a quick glance in a thesaurus makes. Janitors became sanitation engineers, stews became flight attendants, and, ta dah . . . "Coming to your senses" is now "faith crisis," just as being gay is now same sex attraction.

If I looked for another way to say Mormon General Authority in a thesaurus would I find "Arrogant out-of-touch Old Fool?" or, perhaps, "Desperate Doddering Religious Despot?"

They have their mantra down pat though. "It's always YOUR fault."

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 13, 2019 05:38PM

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They have their mantra down pat though. "It's
> always YOUR fault."

Historically so but no more so than now. Now is the time of their power. They rule from their mountains to the ends of the world.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: August 13, 2019 05:04PM

That's just rich.

I especially like how quickly they took to the word "ministering" now.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 13, 2019 05:38PM

I guess they could blame their "ministers" for all those in "faith crisis."

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: August 13, 2019 06:06PM

Used car salesmen before lemon laws. Jeffrey taught them well.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: August 13, 2019 09:29PM

It's always the people
NEVER the 'church'

Always misplacing the blame

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: August 13, 2019 09:33PM

Rusty: Our pets’ heads are falling off!

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 14, 2019 11:06AM

One of the few corporations where if their products harm people it is never and I mean absolutely never the corporation's fault. It can't be. God could never sell a harmful product.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: August 14, 2019 11:44AM

There is no "faith crisis". It's a reason crisis.

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Posted by: shylock ( )
Date: August 14, 2019 12:53PM

Or an "awakening"

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 14, 2019 01:03PM

Or a "discovering."

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Posted by: shylock ( )
Date: August 14, 2019 01:29PM

Or a "epiphany"

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 14, 2019 01:31PM

Or a "collapse."

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Posted by: LJ12 ( )
Date: August 14, 2019 02:02PM

Gonna share this article on facebook.

What I don’t understand though is how this unusually empathic and understanding author/former mission president can stay in the church, if he truly does understand us ex-mormons. Great that he wrote this book, it makes it mild enough for both mormons and ex-mormons to share.

But either he doesn’t really get it, or he is himself engaging in double-think.

So it loses its credibility, no?

Maybe I won’t share this. I changed my mind.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 14, 2019 04:51PM

LJ12 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe I won’t share this. I changed my mind.

Good idea. Methinks his empathy is merely sympathy and it is mostly for the local leaders.

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Posted by: lou louis ( )
Date: August 14, 2019 03:34PM

I to had witnessed the nasty underbelly of Mormonism.

Very disturbing to see and I'm quite happy about distancing myself from TSCC.

Over many years I witnessed abuse after abuse take place.

A Branch President who signed off sizable cheques to himself only to be caught, audited but never punished.Anywhere else that's fraud but apparently not in Mormon culture. He's still kicking around

A Branch President who hid his boozing for years but remained in his position because of family connections. He's still kicking around and still boozing.

A Branch President who kept his Bisexuality a secret while claiming otherwise.Even though years before he was accused of touching a male and was found innocent in a Church Court. The poor young guy who he touched had some kind of mental issues and that was the loophole to save this future BP being EX'D. Honesty is not the best policy where that is concerned. After that I had greater respect to those who were honest about themselves.It must be at times challenging. That BP is still kicking around.

A Branch President even issued a temple recommend to a close relative of mine so she could attend her son's temple wedding even though she hadn't been active in church for years.This guy also loved advancing people in the priesthood even though the people didn't understand remotely what they were getting into.Heck the BP didn't understand.He's still kicking around.

A Branch President who knocked on our home one evening with a letter from the mission office saying they were raising the monthly fee another $150.00 per month for my sons mission. I asked was that an honest thing to do six months in as I had considered what I had signed on for was a contact and he told me he was only the bearer of the news. Oh by the way sorry.So I sucked it up and paid for the sake of my son.That BP died a few years back.

Beware of them in business. The ones I have met will stick you to a wall and watch you squirm. Their a slick bunch I got stung once but was able to get out from under them with little $$$ damage.

Overall if you wanted to move up the priesthood ladder or get a coveted temple recommend then white lies were an acceptable way to do business. I have known a few who refused to play that game. I'm not even sure if their still members. I'm sure they have lost a lot of good honest people over the years because of that rotten culture.

I remember the day I walked as if it was yesterday. It was around the time when the Hinkster declared the Book of Mormon challenge. The presiding Branch President read the directive from the pulpit that Sunday and in the same breath told everyone that he wasn't going to do it because he had no time. I asked my wife if she heard what I had just heard and confirmed it. Well over the years that's what finally broke the camels back.He's still kicking around

While we were getting in the car a member of the Stake Presidency who were visiting flagged us down out in the parking lot.I told him that's enough no more of this BS. His said it was awful that I was letting my ego get in the way and that at some point I would be back! I just laughed at him. Moron. That guys still kicking around.

I can't imagine the stuff that has been done to some great people over the years. Sometimes I think about it like in this post. Some of it was good but it has mostly left a bad taste in my mouth.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 14, 2019 04:54PM

lou louis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can't imagine the stuff that has been done to
> some great people over the years. Sometimes I
> think about it like in this post. Some of it was
> good but it has mostly left a bad taste in my
> mouth.


Me too. I can't imagine how many people have been warped by this authoritarian corporation favoring policies over wisdom and encouraging the worst behaviors in their ambitious male members.

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: August 14, 2019 07:18PM

Haha! Reminds me of a bunch of politicians blaming each other while the economy tanks. Like politics most of the church leaders spew hot air.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 15, 2019 11:01AM

Church is politics. And I find it interesting when Mormons don't realize this and wake up to it in anger and disgust.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: August 14, 2019 07:46PM

and I can't think of anything to say. I'm just always in shock at their pathetic way of labeling US. I really HATE that they think we will come back someday or that we still believe deep down. They are afraid to look too closely.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: August 15, 2019 10:26AM

Mormonism doesn't know the truth... but it knows how to forget, lie, scam, cheat, beat down, harm, cover-up, obfuscate, blame...

The "leaders" blame the followers, including 'local' "leaders", for ANYTHING that isn't right.

Faith ISN'T "truth".

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Posted by: valkyriequeen ( )
Date: August 15, 2019 11:26AM

IMO, it's more like a "cult" or a "business" crisis, but just like in any business, the blame goes from the top on down,from upper management to middle management, to lower management following the chain of command, and before you know it, the blame is all on the workers; they take the heat for upper managements' poor choices.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 15, 2019 11:29AM

valkyriequeen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> they take the heat
> for upper managements' poor choices.

And in Mormonism they pay for the opportunity to do so.

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Posted by: MCR ( )
Date: August 15, 2019 10:19PM

Frankly, I know many former mormons, and I would say that they were offended, they wanted to sin, or they were too lazy to keep the commandments (I think the last two are virtually the same) sums it up fairly accurately.

Some were offended that they'd been lied to for decades. One friend was offended when the young women's leadership began attacking her daughter apparently for spite. Another was offended by racist comments made about her children and her. Another was offended by being forced to picket for Prop 8 despite having LGBTQ high school friends.

Many LGBTQ friends wanted to sin (or as they saw it, live an authentic life).

A neighbor left the church and lost his parents and siblings over his refusal to obey the commandments. He had gone on a mission and married in the temple. He was the father of two young sons when his wife left him and the kids to pursue a relationship with a guy she'd met online. He refused to marry again unless he'd lived with his fiance for at least a year. When he met someone and moved in, his father the stake president was livid; they still don't speak. He was ex'd and never looked back.

Refusing to see that yes, people are offended, do want to sin, and aren't going to obey arbitrary commandments that don't signify anything except tribal membership, allows more pointless hand-wringing. Mormons may say leavers are offended, want to sin, or are too lazy to jump through hoops, and mean it as a slur; but it's the truth, and they ought to face it head-on.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 16, 2019 11:28AM

I think you are missing their point. They want to believe in "cream strippings" offenses and "swinging" sexual sinning as reasons to leave. Not corporate authoritarian deeds (bullying and wealth worship) and Mormon polygamy which are righteous.

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