I wish I knew how it is now. I left in 2009 and it was pretty much the same numbers wise as when I joined it twelve years previous. I was in Reading stake if I remember correctly. Plenty of people did go inactive though; they were quickly forgotten by everyone except wherever they were discussed by leadership I presume. But these numbers were always replenished by the vast numbers of wealthy TBM Americans that came to work in the area. I only knew of two other people besides me who resigned and they were also converts. One was a lady whose marriage was destroyed by her joining the church. The other was a guy who was before and after an evangelical christian. How about you?

Thanks. For a time we had more senior missionaries to bolster the figures but the ward is now half the previous attendance.

My Ward some twenty years ago had up to 120 at Sacrament - nowadays 60 is good. My Stake has closed 4 units in past ten years.

Thanks, your figures almost exactly mirror my old ward. 130 down to 65. In my former stake one unit has closed which, in turn, was a combination of two others. It warms my heart.

Any other Brits frequenting this site?
Is there a list of all UK Stakes, Wards and Branches?

Yes. I haven't published it though. Any ideas?

I was in Perth Branch, Dundee Stake, Scotland.

In 2015, the Branch peaked with 50 members weekly.

I left beginning of 2017. I hear its mow down to around 15 people on a good day, including a senior missionary.couple and two elders.

Another Dundee Stake data point here.

In the late 80's Dundee 1st Ward used to be about 180-190 every week, while Dundee 2nd Ward was about 150-160. Housed in two separate large buildings, with 1 of them being the Stake centre

Then they split into 3 wards (2 in the stake centre). 3rd ward couldn't survive, so they combined them back into 2.

Now I think attendances are about 120 in 1st Ward, and maybe 90-100 in 2nd Ward. I'm not quite as sure about the 2nd Ward. Maybe our wrestling fan has a better handle on that?

be interested for numbers now.

LDS purpose built meetinghouses in Scotland - now closed and Ward/Branch disbanded -
Drumchapel - Johnstone - Beith - Cathkin - Springboig - Hamilton

The Thinker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LDS purpose built meetinghouses in Scotland - now
> closed and Ward/Branch disbanded -
> Drumchapel - Johnstone - Beith - Cathkin -
> Springboig - Hamilton

Hopefully Scotland won't be an English colony much longer... so they won't be in the so called "UK".

These are all places surrounding Glasgow. Pretty grim places TBH -except Beith which is in some nice countryside. The others are in general decline, I don't think many people move into them. They're mining/industrial towns, and like the oil under the North Sea, once the Brits got the loot, they were abandoned.

Are you from central Scotland Monsignore?

No, Monsignore Caravaggio is just another momentary incarnation of Jordan, who instinctively disparages cities he doesn't like and constantly asserts that England treats Scotland as a colony.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No, Monsignore Caravaggio is just another
> momentary incarnation of Jordan, who instinctively
> disparages cities he doesn't like and constantly
> asserts that England treats Scotland as a colony.


Hahahahahahhahahahahahaha.

If I recall, Drumchapel and Springboig were sold because of the constant vandalism to the buildings by bored local youth. It was costing a lot of money to repair these buildings and the attendances were obviously low.

They also started to look more and more like a fortress to try and reduce the vandalism, so investigators didn't exactly get a good first impression when they turned up.

The cost benefit to keeping them wasn't really there.

Sensible Brits falling for an American swindle? How is such a thing possible.

If you take a look at our new prime minister our stupid choices make a lot more sense

Boris wasn't democratically elected, he came out of a party election... Apart from the fact that he is a lot more intelligent than he looks, it is a clever tactic to have clowns in charge because attention can be deflected onto them personally when anything goes wrong.

> Boris wasn't democratically elected, he came out
> of a party election...

Oh Jordan, you can't beat that for unintentional irony!

They are known as outliers

Thanks for the feedback.
Lately I've had some contact with members I knew 15 years ago and I noticed a change in them. Nelson's new ideas seem to have unsettled them. It's as if they're not so sure of themselves anymore. Perhaps their former assertiveness is now on hold because they don't know what's coming next.

In 1987, at the celebration of the UK Sesquicentennial, the church in Scotland had 53 wards and branches.
In 2019 this has shrunk to 36 wards and branches.
A loss of 17 "units" in the past 32 years.

Based on some figures already posted. and some others I have rooted out, I am aware of the following "possible" average Sacrament attendances at 6 Scottish church units ( rounded up )
Dundee 1 120
Dundee 2 100
E Kilbride 60
Alloa 60
Falkirk 40
Perth. 20
That is a total of 400 for 6 units
Which is an averages of 67 per unit
With 36 units in Scotland, this implies 2412 "active" LDS.
Can we offer any first or second hand estimates for other Scottish units. The more we gather, the more accurate this figure becomes.

The Thinker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Based on some figures already posted. and some
> others I have rooted out, I am aware of the
> following "possible" average Sacrament attendances
> at 6 Scottish church units ( rounded up )
> Dundee 1 120
> Dundee 2 100
> E Kilbride 60
> Alloa 60
> Falkirk 40
> Perth. 20
> That is a total of 400 for 6 units
> Which is an averages of 67 per unit
> With 36 units in Scotland, this implies 2412
> "active" LDS.
> Can we offer any first or second hand estimates
> for other Scottish units. The more we gather, the
> more accurate this figure becomes.

Edinburgh varies but regularly tops 200 inc. visitors
Glasgow - 160
Aberdeen - 159
Bridge of Don - ?
Livingston, Dunfermline 60-80
Inverness - 50
Dumfries, Cumbernauld - 40-50
Stranraer, Elgin & Galashiels - 30 or so each
Stornoway - under 30

Can't comment on what happens down south but Aberdeen doesn't get anywhere near 159 and Inverness is more like 30 unless there's Nessie spotters passing through.

In the late 90's and early 00's I had access to the sacrament attendance reported to Solihull for every ward and branch in Scotland.

But I was a good TBM then and didn't think I'd need to actually pay attention and make a copy for future entertainment. :o(

Was Jeffrey Holland, Robert Mawle or David Cooke there them?

I recall Jeff and David. But Robert isn't one I recall. but I'm really bad with names, so don't read too much into that.

We now have estimated sacrament attendances for 18 of Scotland's 36 units....
Edinburgh 200
Glasgow 160
Aberdeen 160
Dundee 1st 120
Dundee 2nd 100
E Kilbride 60
Alloa 60
Falkirk 40
Perth 20
Livingston 80
Dumfries 80
Inverness 50
Dunfermline 50
Cumbernauld 50
Stranraer 30
Elgin 30
Galashiels 30
Stornoway 30
Total attendance = 1350
Average per unit = 75
Projected total Scottish attendance
= 2700
FASCINATING!
Any more numbers PLEASE!?

If you belong to r/exmormon, you should post your current findings, and then ask for validation of what you have so far and for the missing stats.

They average over a 1,000 exmos online at any one time...

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you belong to r/exmormon, you should post your
> current findings, and then ask for validation of
> what you have so far and for the missing stats.
>
> They average over a 1,000 exmos online at any one
> time...

I estimate (semi-)active membership at 10% or so. A figure of 2000 out of an LDS report of 20,000 members makes sense. And about 1% or 200 people attend the temple at least once a year or hold a recommend.

A branch with twenty attendees will have two hundred on the books, and several temple goers.

So these figures make good sense.

Like someone said, numbers fluctuate in some wards. My ward south of the border went from 120 some weeks to 180 on others. I used to go to a tourist and student ward. Ward conference drew in maybe four or five hundred.

With Edinburgh how many are visitors, tourists and mission Home staff? When they published pictures of relief society there looked only about twenty!

Edinburgh's got a lot of serial inactive families who come along for a while, disappear and come back. They also have the highest rate of baptisms in Scotland, but most of them are students so they move elsewhere after a year or two. Edinburgh is really expensive so several of the core families ended up moving to neighbouring wards (especially Dunfermline in Dundee Stake). If that wasn't the case, it would probably be one of the healthiest wards in the UK. Actually I think it is. Unlike Gala down the road.

A lot of Edinburgh folk who go to sacrament seem to skive second/third hour and all.

Oban died because one family dominated it.

Can you guesstimate numbers for Edinburgh and elsewhwhere
....Thanks....

I’m genuinely interested to know (and perhaps I missed it) how you find out this information? I tried searching this out local to me and this info just isn’t available...

LJ12 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’m genuinely interested to know (and perhaps I
> missed it) how you find out this information? I
> tried searching this out local to me and this info
> just isn’t available...

I get my numbers from friends that still attend the particular wards.

We all probably know someone who attends church somewhere - just casually ask

Ayr 45

What's your figures Northstar??

This year so far three wards and branches closed in the UK. One in Leeds, One in Skipton and one in Stroud. Over fifty wards and branches closed since 1999!

Also the two wards near me in southern England have 35 and 50 active members! How do they even manage with those numbers?

How did you get the info? I wouldn’t know how to check this...and I wish I knew.

I have a recent number from Gravesend Ward.

Attendance there was about 28 a couple of weeks ago. This was after they'd taken a chunk of Gillingham to boost Gravesend.

I'm not sure it is going to survive as a ward because they are nowhere near the requirement of 28 MP holders to be a ward.

Amazing decline, considering that LDS Inc has been in the UK since Q Victoria was a rookie. Sounds like pretty soon it will mostly be American Mormon expats stationed in the UK and the odd Brit family that likes feeling indispensable.

Not much to show for 170 years of slogging

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Amazing decline, considering that LDS Inc has been
> in the UK since Q Victoria was a rookie. Sounds
> like pretty soon it will mostly be American Mormon
> expats stationed in the UK and the odd Brit family
> that likes feeling indispensable.
>
> Not much to show for 170 years of slogging

To be fair they did export most of the converts into the 1950s.

Brewhemia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> To be fair they did export most of the converts
> into the 1950s.

To be fair, you were quicker than me at to be fairing. :o)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2019 09:28AM by Darren Steers.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Not much to show for 170 years of slogging

To be fair, the first 100 years or so were heavy on the immigration to Zion. So most of the converts from that vintage left the country.

Realistically you are talking about the last 70 years, when immigration policy was scrapped and UK members were told to remain and build the church in the UK.

Either way, progress is embarrassing.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2019 09:27AM by Darren Steers.

I would have thought that the export of converts to Utah would have at least slowed substantially after about 1890 or 1900. I agree that it was the 1950s when LDS Inc decided to be an "international church" and worked to build international stakes, in places other than Polynesia and Alberta, Canada.

I visit Manitoba regularly, and am always heartened at how minuscule LDS Inc is in that province. Not that that hasn't stopped them from planning a temple in Winnipeg. I suspect it will the the smallest temple district in the world, in terms of number of members served. I think it will have a total of 15 congregations served, about half wards and half branches.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would have thought that the export of converts
> to Utah would have at least slowed substantially
> after about 1890 or 1900. I agree that it was the
> 1950s when LDS Inc decided to be an "international
> church" and worked to build international stakes,
> in places other than Polynesia and Alberta,
> Canada.
>
> I visit Manitoba regularly, and am always
> heartened at how minuscule LDS Inc is in that
> province. Not that that hasn't stopped them from
> planning a temple in Winnipeg. I suspect it will
> the the smallest temple district in the world, in
> terms of number of members served. I think it will
> have a total of 15 congregations served, about
> half wards and half branches.

You'd be surprised.

I know several who have moved to the States from my UK ward. So it still goes on... But it's often due to job offers or American spouses these days.

But it was common into the fifties for this to happen in some places. Even the sixties to some extent. Fifties Britain still had rationing (up to 1954 or so), and there bombed out places that were never rebuilt for decades. It was not a happy place... losing its empire, its industries in heavy decline and brow beaten by the war.

So even after the war, the US seemed like a land of opportunity in a way it doesn't now.

There are many wards and Branches just hanging on in the UK. I expect some stakes to be dissolved soon! The Romford stake has only five wards in it it has eight when I attended many years ago!

This may be obvious, but are the remaining few members in these wards and branches of the geriatric variety? If most are in their retirement years, I would expect there will be a sharp decline in membership when these members reach their 80's and the death rate spikes upward. Without replacement converts the closing of these units will be fast and furious.

I would say it was steady 100 per week till 2003 or so then declined after that, now averaging 50, this is Manchester Stake

I know some units in Preston Stake are strugling, one 'ward' has an average of 10-15 each week, the only reason its staying open is pride, if they closed it Preston would no longer qualify as a stake, then another ward has had to change boundaries and pinch some members from one of the Chorley Ward, a few members were pissed at that!

Come on....somebody on here knows the numbers for Paisley Ward? HUH!?

Last I knew there were around 60-70 but thats a few years ago now,Beith and Johnstone have gone

I think Johnstone went into Paisley,not sure where Beith went to,possibly Paisley too.

OK shall we call PAISLEY at 80?
How about the OTHER 17?
SOMEBODY KNOWS!

Ok, anyone know about Staines stake?
It’s interesting how there is no information on the mormon church unless you are in it and have access to login to their website. Everything is so hush hush. That just struck me big time.