Posted by:
Henry Bemis
(
)
Date: August 31, 2019 09:35AM
"One of the definitions of prayer is "an earnest request or wish" (see
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prayer definition 1b). There is nothing, especially legally that states that a prayer must be to a god or some higher power."
COMMENT: Is that the definition that is operative in the present case? Or is that the definition that you want to change to in order to salvage your argument that it is not inconsistent for atheists to pray? If you took a pole of atheists, and asked them, "Do you pray?" What percent do you think would respond, "Yes." My guess is that the vast majority would think the question made no sense as applied to an atheist.
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So, "prayer" doesn't need to be to a "God" or even a "higher power". Are you trying to say that a non-believer can't make an earnest request or wish? Please, I look forward to hearing your semantic twisting about how only believers can do that.
COMMENT: "Sematic twisting." Very good. I will add that to the list!
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"Basically, you're agreeing with everything I state, but then narrow the focus of the word "prayer" so that it meets the needs of your "logic" to exclude atheists."
COMMENT: See above. Everyone here knew exactly what "prayer" meant until you came forth with this new proposed escape hatch.
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The prayers should be gone. I hope we can agree on that. Since they aren't and the courts have provided an out for municipalities continue them, they should have to play by the rules. This includes allowing even non-believers to express their ernest requests and wishes for the meeting. We want our equal time. Unless you really are arguing that non-believers do not deserve equal treatment in the eyes of the law.
COMMENT: Yes, I agree that the prayers should be gone. But as long as "the rules" apply to "prayer" atheists are out by definition. If you allow them in, your change "the rules" one way or another. With respect to "prayer" there is no such thing as "equal time" for atheists. Again, you have to change the rules to make this about something else.
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"I suggest you google the many atheist and non-believer prayers that have been given over the years in municipal meetings. They are often better and more applicable to the meeting at hand than what I'd expect from a theist's prayer. They often wish for the participants to be civil, remember they are neighbors, and the hope that all will be treated equally."
COMMENT: My congratulations to atheists who managed to succumb to the prayer mandate of believers. My question is, who did they pray to? The spirit of David Hume, in the name of Richard Dawkins?
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"So, there are plenty of reasons why an atheist would want to pray in these meetings. You just don't seem to like it."
COMMENT: Yes. As an atheist I am uncomfortable with the logic of an atheist prayer. My bad! Meditation, fine; Moment of silence, fine; Two and a half minute talk, fine; But prayer? Not so much.