I posted a little over two years ago under the title:
"Banned from a funeral that starts soon- long"

To refresh, I come from a large very mormon family. The only person that I was close to committed suicide, and I was banned from his funeral.

I became an orphan at that time as a choice. Blocked them all on fb and will never see them again. I don't recommend this for almost everyone, but some families are that bad. So that post two years ago was just a drop-in post after not being here for years.

Now I'm dropping in again just for an update.

I was always a black sheep in my ultra mormon family. Mostly for sex and beer, starting in high school. None to excess. I was perhaps the most honest, most educated, and most helpful. etc. But the two other strikes put me in a dangerous category that must be guarded against. Even though I still went to church and did the right things, but in a non conformist way.

So my family always held me at a bit of a safe distance in case I might lead anyone away into eternal damnation. And they were much worse to me than I'm saying. Bad enough that a trusted psychotherapist professor in the U of U Masters program told me that they were dangerous to my mental well being, and I should stop seeing them. But I kept trying to fit in for another 12 years after being told that. So they really weren't good people, though everyone at church would think so.

I stopped going to church in 2008 and stopped counting myself as a mormon. A couple of years ago made it official. But never announced it to them that I wasn't going. I'm sure the gossip made it known. So when the only one of them that was any good committed suicide and I was banned, it was the straw that broke the camels back.

Of all my former family, including aunts and uncles etc. I only stay in fb contact with one niece and a nephew. One is an exmormon, and one seems smart enough to be headed that way, or is one. And life is so much better!

I struggled to be accepted by them for decades. From me towards them, I was friendly and helpful. Coming back my direction I got almost nothing.

Even though it was an embarrassingly large family, I told people I had one and a half siblings. Of those, one committed suicide and the other banned me. So there wasn't much left to lose. But I enjoy being an orphan much more than an outcast.

Prior, I used to reflexively think of gifts for them, and at times buy them. Even though my birthday and Christmas went unnoticed. I'd stop by their houses, but they didn't come to mine. etc. etc. etc.

At first after the funeral and my decision to divorce them, I'd still reflexively have those instincts. But I'd tell myself, you're never going to see them again, you don't need to do this. Eventually I got used to the feeling of being an orphan. And by now those instincts to care and think of them are gone.

The girlfriend I had at the time of the funeral, I married a year later. After her going through that funeral time period, and knowing everything else that took place, she totally supports me being an orphan. She kind of secretly worries that I'll lose my sense of equilibrium or something and try to warm up to them again. To an outsider like her, their behavior towards me throughout my adult life is astonishingly horrible. But I assure her that it will never happen. That door is closed. It's not opening again.

I don't sit around feeling sorry or licking wounds. It's more like a giant burden, decades in the making has been lifted. Beating my head against a wall that doesn't move has stopped. Mentally it is very liberating to have that cancerous part removed. Life is much better without them.

I sometimes wonder if they would be cool if some grandfather never joined the mormon church? Maybe? Or maybe the would suck either way. But the judgementalness of being an ultra mormon sure didn't help.

So I don't recommend divorcing your family, unless they are really awful. But if they are, and you keep trying without success year after year. Life might be much better to just divorce them.

If you feel like you need to do that, I'm sorry for the misery of your situation. I wish you had a better family. But I'll bet your life is going to be much better after cutting them out.

This sounds truly awful. I will try to find your original story once I have some time to read it. I posted about mine a couple of days ago. My problem is I don’t know what is going on, but I’m very unpopular. They say nice things, and that they hope we will stay in touch, but when I do I get a blast of cold air. So many mixed messages.
I will probably have to move away and reduce contact/ create more distance. There’s no overt nastiness, but in some ways I’d prefer it if there was. I don’t know which way is up.
Funny thing is, I was the black sheep before mormonism. They I became a mormon and that was frowned upon. Only since my brother joined it, is it this wonderful thing. And I’m the black sheep again since I left it. How bizarre and ironic can you get?

LJ12, it is disorientating. If I went to their house, we had what seemed like nice conversations many times. But then if I didn't see them for a long time, nieces and nephews that loved to be around me were giving me the cold shoulder. One of them too young to know better even said, "Do you want to know what they say about you?" Before a parent hurried and hushed them up sternly.

It was like to my face a standoffish niceness, followed by really bad stab you in the back later.

You just have to sort out what is the, "I'm being nice because that is what mormons are supposed to do" vs the genuine I like you and you are important to me.

> You just have to sort out what is the, "I'm being
> nice because that is what mormons are supposed to
> do" vs the genuine I like you and you are
> important to me.


^^This!

It's always been nearly impossible to figure out the difference. ours. Now that the church is telling people to uber "nicey nicey" it makes it even more difficult. We've opted for limited contact with TBM family. That's their fault, not our.

"They say nice things, and that they hope we will stay in touch, but when I do I get a blast of cold air. So many mixed messages."


Translation;
They hope you stay in touch-in coming back to the church. If that's not why you're calling/seeing them, then get lost until you do decide to come back.

Mormonism creates toxic people.

DNA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So I don't recommend divorcing your family, unless
> they are really awful. But if they are, and you
> keep trying without success year after year. Life
> might be much better to just divorce them.
>
> If you feel like you need to do that, I'm sorry
> for the misery of your situation. I wish you had a
> better family. But I'll bet your life is going to
> be much better after cutting them out.

I did years ago.

Bit by bit I've reconnected a bit.

My family is falling apart as my 80 year old parents fall apart. My father has dementia and the family is torn about how poorly my mother is caring for him.

Many of my siblings aren't as TBM as they have been in the past. It is an interesting progression of a highly religious and zealous big dysfunctional Mormon family as time takes its toll and Mormonism becomes unsuccessful at retaining many of my nieces and nephews. I think I'm up to the following.

2 exMormons of 10 kids.

3 exMormons of 50 grandkids so far (a bunch aren't adults yet.)

We've had a divorce in one of these kids temple marriage.

Statistically from a LDS Corp perspective this is a huge success but from my personal perspective enough change has been injected into my family that they are now not 100 percent talking Mormon points when I visit with them. The Mormon Church doesn't come up anymore.

Also, a lot of internal drama has caused this black sheep to look a lot less black as we all are enduring to our ends.

I too have separated myself from large segments of our common relatives. The assumption that every interaction will be church-centered, and the arrogance of their default reasoning makes them insufferable.

SoCal Apostate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I too have separated myself from large segments of
> our common relatives. The assumption that every
> interaction will be church-centered, and the
> arrogance of their default reasoning makes them
> insufferable.

Your side of the family is the most mormon of my two sides. But even the more causal side of my father, is insufferable once you are not mormon.

I dropped my family a little more than two years ago as I said, but I didn't drop cousins and aunts and uncles till a couple of months ago. I only dropped them off of fb. Though I don't have plans on seeing them ever. I've been out of the country for 8 years, so there has already been considerable distance. And I haven't seen any of them for ten years, and they all thought I was mormon still then.

I decided that if I were to see them, it would only be pleasant for them if I didn't say anything about not being a mormon. And they would still rattle on and on about their callings etc.

The last time I saw them was right after I decided to never go back to church. And I was shocked at that point how EVERYTHING was about church. I realized how little room there was for me among them.

So I decided if I did keep up with them, they would ask questions about my siblings, and I'd have to explain. And if they know I'm not mormon, they will either spend the time trying to get me back, or talking about it. So I decided that if I want to comfortable just being me, not an exmormon family member who is either dangerous or needs rescued... I might as well drop all of them and just be me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2019 08:02PM by DNA.

Also, once you realize that extended family will only accept you if you pretend to not be you, what is the point?

For the entire other part of my world, I could say how fun a trip was that I went on to Bali last month. And I could say how I found an amazing place to have drinks and the rock band there was so great, every night. And it's just normal conversation.

Say the same thing around any mormon family and the room will stop. Eyes will stare. And you know that oh, I talked about drinking. Oops.

So as I haven't seen any of them for 10 years, and it will be three more before I even could. It just seems easier to drop them and be able to be me everywhere, everyday.

But there are realy cool ones. Too bad that they are all mormon.

You have described my family and my life better than anyone ever has.

I walked away from all but two of a huge family about 30 years ago. I don't miss any of that shit whatsoever. I wish it was different, but it isn't.

A couple of years ago the other two decided to choose Mormonism over ALL and every thing. Their choice. I will miss them to a point, but not if that relationship is smothered in Mormonism and all that comes with that.

The good thing is that my spouse and my two adult children all left the church when I did. I am not alone without any family. The best ones of all are still in my life on a daily basis. I am very very lucky.

I'm extremely lucky that my grandkids will never be Mormon. I can't even imagine how horrid it would be if the situation were different. It would break my heart.

Mormonism is a cancer that has ran through my family for 5 generations. I am one of the very few that has broke the chain. I'm writing book/journal for my future relatives that I don't want to get entangled into the cult. I want them to know why I ended up in it (5thgeneration), and why I left.

Hopefully the truth will keep my future grandchildren and anyone they hook up with, free from the cult.

That's the best I can do.

I can't save those that insist on being Mormon. That's their choice. I don't have to tolerate or get entangled in their crap though.

I've set myself and future generations free. I intend to keep it that way.

You have done the same, and I know its not easy. It's worth it though.

I finally divorced my family last February after 50+ years of trying and going the extra mile (lending money, buying them plane tickets to visit me, flying 1000 miles to visit them) without much in return except judgement. It has been a HUGE relief and I wish I hadn't waited so long to do it. When I got an invitation to the wedding open house for my nephew, I tossed it in the trash and didn't feel an ounce of guilt.

Why waste precious time and energy where it isn't valued.

As a psychotherapist, I would always tell my clients to, "Accept that what is, is." And it really makes life better when you do."

Yet in my own life, I wasn't. I kept pretending that it was better, or had value much more than it really did. When I finally gave up and accepted reality, it was as good as I would always tell my clients it would be.

So much easier to see it, and tell it to others. Much harder in your own life. My most trusted professor from my masters told it to me, but I kept trying. It seems we're not built growing up mormon to give up on family.

I hate to agree with such a harsh conclusion, DNA, but that's what I ended up doing. I didn't just cut out my family, all at once, though. It was a slow, painful process of trying to keep those life-long relationships alive, until I just gave up, or until they were so cold and snobby, that it gave me the creeps to be around them.

No one wants to feel like that--ever! I felt judged, looked-down-on, like I didn't belong there with the others, like they wanted me...gone.

I learned something. My Mormon family members and former friends want their church to be true. Their Mormon church has brainwashed them into thinking that those who leave are following Satan. They are doomed for "outer darkness", and some will become "sons of perdition." They believe that leaving the cult is sure to bring great unhappiness, and failure in life. Am I right? Wasn't this what we were all taught, when we were Mormons?

Therefore, because the Mormons want their church to be true, they want to see these prophesies happen to us! This is the "creepy-ness" we feel. They want to watch us fail, and be unhappy, and lose our family and friends. They want us to become so abject, that we come crawling back, crying, "You are right! The church is true!"

Instead, they see us happier than ever! At first, they think we are faking it, just to show them up. After a few years, they realize our joy is real! They see us succeed, and they see our children succeed. They see how close we are, and how much we love each other--without their "example" or their "reunions" or the mutual agony of the cult to keep us together.

Above anything else, they want to remain obedient and faithful to their cult. Some of them have dis-owned their own children, and in one case, their own parents. Why would they decide to not disown me--I'm just an inconsequential, female cousin, divorced and single. My children and I make up a "broken home." We are so much MORE than that! I know what you-all mean about wanting to be yourself, and to be liked for your self!

The bottom line is--that the Mormons WANT US TO FAIL! They want us to be unhappy, wicked, ugly, poorer, with loser children. IMO--anyone who wants BAD THINGS TO HAPPEN TO US is by definition an enemy--not a "friend"--not someone who is in our corner. This is why I have no regreets in letting the worst ones go. I don't miss them. We have our own family parties, without all that gloom and doom.

That's why some of our Mormon relatives are actually angry at us, and they grow more and more angry, as the years pass.

One-by-one, and a few group-by-group, they have expressed their "heartbreak, disappointment, sorrow" or whatever.

NOT ONE has ever asked me WHY I left! Not one! Many have told me why they think I left. They said I was "offended, wanting to sin, not able to live up to (up to--that's funny) the church's standards, didn't read the BOM enough times--we have all heard the Mormons' reasons--UGH!

When I was a little girl, some of my Mormon family members physically abused me, and tried to abuse my children--gone!

Some of my Mormon family members stole money from me, my parents, my other siblings, and a family investment we had--gone!

My inlaws disowned and disinherited my husband and I and our children, when we left the cult--gone! That Mormon family was horribly dysfunctional, and had several suicides, including my TBM father-in-law, some of my kids' cousins, and widespread drug use. I'm now glad that we were ostracized from what would have been a very bad family environment for my own kids.

I once had a huge extended family, and now, 12 years after leaving, I only see 6 of them. Is it a coincidence, that these are all women who have been divorced? Two are still Mormon, and seek comfort in being temple matrons. Four have left the cult.

About 25% of my TBM cousins' children and grandchildren have left the cult, because they are savvy with the internet, and know more than we did at that age. What prompts them to question the church in the first place is usually sympathy for their friends that are gay, or Black, or they are women in the working world, or the cult is just weird and creepy, or (like my children) the leaders are abusive.

exminion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hate to agree with such a harsh conclusion, DNA,
> but that's what I ended up doing. I didn't just
> cut out my family, all at once, though. It was a
> slow, painful process of trying to keep those
> life-long relationships alive, until I just gave
> up, or until they were so cold and snobby, that it
> gave me the creeps to be around them.
>


Yes, like that. The last time that I saw my parents or siblings was at a funeral for an in-law ten years ago. At that point I had only stopped going to church, and had no plans of going back. But it had only been for about a year. The wife of the brother I was close to was the biggest gossip in a family. And I told him everything, so I figured it got around through her.

After the funeral there was a get together at a brother's house. My siblings were not so cool prior, but still fine to be around at important events. But my nieces and nephews loved me and always tried to get attention from me. I loved the being an uncle part, and always enjoyed my nieces and nephews.

At the get together, there was ice water thrown at me by everyone. Even nieces and nephews didn't want to talk with me. It was like I suddenly had leprosy. I really didn't enjoy it at all. And was shocked that even the young ones who fawned over me on my prior visits wouldn't give me the time of day.

It was prior to the funeral on the same trip that my favorite brother's child was going to spill the beans and tell me what everyone was saying about me. But he hushed her and I never heard it. But it was obvious that I was not cool. Even by their kids.

I remember going home from that trip to my state thinking what a waste it was to have even traveled there at all. I didn't enjoy it one bit. I didn't like the brother-in-law who died. I was only going there to support my sister and see family. There was no part of being with them that I enjoyed. And I spent a lot of money and effort to get there. I just drove home thinking, that sucked.

I moved out of the country after that and made an occasional call with a couple of them up until the brother's funeral. So when I divorced them, I had already not seen any of them for 8 years due to being out of the country. So it wasn't as drastic feeling to cut them all out of my life when I hadn't seen them for so long.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2019 04:25AM by DNA.

One other damaging thing that happened at the time of being banned from the funeral. As I've said in the other post, the brother who died was my favorite person in the world. He was my only person to trust, and I was his. I was the only one in real contact with him in the year before he died. So it was a real shock that I wasn't going to be at the funeral. I thought I would be taking care of it and speaking at it. Everyone knew that for decades, he and I were closest.

So while still in the shock of being banned, on the day of the funeral, I called a brother. Ironically I was calling to find out what his contact was to change my will from the brother that died, to him if my girlfriend and I went at the same time.

He was telling me a little about the funeral, then said, "I can't talk now, I'm with family."

I realized how out I was. Something as important as giving some information about the funeral couldn't be done in front of family. I remember thinking, "I'm family!" I really realized how far out I was in that moment. Not only banned from the funeral, but banned from hearing about it if family was around.

That was the point where I really knew there wasn't really anything to lose by divorcing them.

I'm sorry for your loss of your brother, DNA.

I'm not in contact with any of my family, either, because they all have died young. I'm 12 years younger than my siblings, so now I'm an orphan. My old uncles and aunts are dead, and I never see the TBM cousins in the GA Mormon Royalty side of the family. They are insufferably pious and arrogant. The wealthy Mission Presidents, Temple Presidents, Stake Presidents and Bishops would never socialize with a struggling, divorced single working woman--unless I were a project, or something. We never socialized, even when I was an active Mormon. I don't think anyone noticed, when I stopped going to the reunions. I was in charge of the reunions, until I had to stop, because of work, and family responsibilities. They all have my address and phone number. In 9 years, since I left the Mormon church, not one call, not one Christmas card--nothing--from them. After a few years, I stopped sending them Christmas cards.

The other side of the family--the intellectuals--were harder for me to let go. Even when relatives are mean, judgmental gossips, it still hurts when they shun you. I do get some Christmas cards, and go to their Christmas reunion, but we don't socialize outside of that, or meet for lunch, or call to chat, like we used to.

They treat me like dirt, and I don't enjoy being around them, but--why does it hurt so much?

Mother Who Knows Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> They treat me like dirt, and I don't enjoy being
> around them, but--why does it hurt so much?

I know it was rhetorical, but somehow we are conditioned to mourn those who die. It is expected to hurt. But we aren't supposed to hurt from family who are alive.

Rejection for you as a person, not for something horrible that you are doing, is painful. For me divorcing them was a mourning period, as I knew that I would never see them again. When my parents die, I won't be there etc. So I mourned the death of the relationships and hopes and dreams.

But then after a short mourning came great relief. The relief will last forever.

DNA, thank you for your advice! My question was sincere--I have been feeling very hurt, and left out.

I am going to try officially divorcing them, in my heart. Then, I will officially mourn the death of the relationships and hopes and dreams.

I think this will also help me face the fact that I will never see these people again. I'm no longer part of their tribe. I will never regret this enough to go back to the cult--never--so it is OVER.

I will go with the brief feelings of "relief," which will increase, over time. So many wonderful non-Mormon people are filling up my life, that I have less time for the snarks, anyway.

One of the many things that led me out of the mormon church was how my family and mormons treated me when my dad died. Mormons at church cheerfully told me he was in a better place now, or, “oh I didn’t know you had a dad!” (My parents are non-mormon - apparently this means if they haven’t been seen, they don’t exist?!). My family treated me like I was glass about to break - they didn’t want me talking at the funeral in case I cried and embarrassed myself (translation: embarrassed them). Apparently crying (or expressing any emotion) is bad.

I was still a mormon at this time, and still seemingly included in the family like an equal, but looking back on this, I’ve now realised I was always an outcast in both places. When I resigned from the church a year later it was the final nail in the coffin. Very ironic seeing as I was the one who introduced it to the family. Apparently this means I’m not allowed to have a problem with it now. I’m forever in a double bind created by them.

Well, I didn’t take too kindly to being told I couldn’t speak at my dads funeral, and I exploded. For some reason my brother then came out with a list of stuff I did to offend them, such as being tired at family gatherings. What all this had to do with anything I’m not sure. Finally, I was patronised and told I would be allowed to read out a poem, and the vicar would be right behind me to take over if I cried.

I played along and told them fine, but I would bring my own poem.

I then wrote a heartfelt poem For my Dad. He is the only person in my family who I ever connected with, and who only saw good things in me.

I read my poem out at the funeral. I didn’t cry.

When I had finished, everyone in the packed church was crying their eyes out. There wasn’t a dry eye on the house.

Afterwards people were contacting my mother and brother (who had insisted on arranging the funeral without me) to ask for my poem. So with my permission, they then had to send it out to all these people.

I got my revenge that day. And I also got to express my feelings for my dad. I think if my entire family was mormon I wouldn’t have stood a chance though.

Unfortunately nothing has changed with them, except on a surface level which i now realise is mostly false.
It’s interesting to hear you emigrated, good on you! I might do the same. How exciting that would be.

Sorry to hear that you also lost your only person too LJ12.

It was heartbreaking to lose my only one. But I would not have dumped my whole family as long as he was there. So it did make a good thing happen. But I wish I still had him around.

Families should come with many people who love and care about us. We shouldn't be relegated to having only one. And as I said, I wonder if mine wasn't mormon, if I would have had more? But probably they would have sucked anyway, but who knows.

Agreed that Mormonisn is toxic. Most of my Mormon family always applied a double standard to me and my brother because we're adopted (my mom's nevermo family never made that distinction BTW). I have no contact with most of them other than at the odd funeral. When my wife died 3 cousins (two of which are long time inactive like me) and their spouses came to the prayer service. None came to the funeral...and not so much as a phone call or card in the mail or message of condolence on the funeral home website. Told me all I needed to know about their character...or lack thereof.

Perhaps you can adopt your wife's family, and socialize with them at holidays, etc.

Most of my aunts and uncles are gone at this point, and I'm not close with my cousins and their families. I only keep up with a couple of them every now and again. I couldn't even name all of them. They are not bad people, but we lived at a distance for most of our lives, and our lives took very different directions. I guess it would be different if you lived reasonably close, and/or saw them often.

Sometimes relationships devolve into what I call "gift giving occasions." If I only hear from people when there is a wedding, birth, or birthday, I tend to peace out.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps you can adopt your wife's family, and
> socialize with them at holidays, etc.
>


Yes. My wife is very educated, phd and speaks almost perfect English, but her family speaks no English. Yet they are warm and welcoming. I was worried about how they would react. Marrying a foreigner is generally regarded as what a low woman does to improve her station in life, and is looked down on. Someone of her level shouldn't be doing that. So I was worried.

But they are so much better than my family every was. I feel so welcome when we visit there. We often talk about how much better they are than my own family.

It might be worth it to try to pick up some of their language. The website/app Duolingo has been recommended to me (I am in the process of picking up some Spanish in order to communicate with my students.) Perhaps it might work for you.

https://www.duolingo.com/

That sucks. Gratefully, I have a never-Mo family. That used to be something that made me sad, when I was a member. But today, it's something to be very grateful for. They were supportive when I joined and even more supportive when I left. That's when they were honest about how they really felt about me being Mormon. They were relieved that I'd left. They never let me know that at the time.

I did instantly lose the friend I was closest to. I missed her and her family for a long time. My heart was extremely invested in that family. But I eventually realized that the relationship was toxic and that I'm better off without them.

I began to realize how emotionally abusive she was. She was never happy unless she was insulting you and lifting herself up. I realize that she must have had major self-esteem issues. But I didn't need that. I'm better off having supportive friends, even if they are fewer in number.

I ran into an old Mormon friend yesterday and he's still wonderful. I got several huge hugs from him. It was good to see him.

I don't do funerals. To me they are the epitome of hypocrisy. A waste of lies. The most expensive pollution.

Sorry to hear about that DNA. I'm slowly coming to the realization that I'm going to probably have to do the same thing. Your line, "I enjoy being an orphan much more than an outcast.", really resonated with me. My go-to line thus far while keeping my distance has been, "I'd rather be literally alone than with people who make me feel alone." So I often choose to not be with them.

Exminion is absolutely correct. They want to see us fail, and they don't acknowledge our successes. And that is the definition of an enemy.

I'm fortunate to have at least one extended family member out and fortunate enough that ALL of my wife's siblings are out. So my extended family will not be a total loss, but at least half of them I just need to cut out of my life entirely. It's sad but I'm a lot happier when they are not part of my life.

Like you said, easy advice to give but much harder to actually do. Anyway, just wanted to let you know I feel you man. I get it. Same boat for me just a few wakes behind you (Edit: I just realized that analogy necessitates it being a different boat. Ok, same path a few miles behind, let's go with that instead). I do think your situation was worse than mine though and you lost a lot more than I will.

I have a lot of respect for you and for your bravery. It's not easy to let things go. “Of all the ways to lose a person, death is the kindest.” — Ralph Waldo Emerson



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2019 12:00AM by The Man in Black.