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Posted by: Anon4this ( )
Date: September 30, 2019 02:00AM

Over the years we have attended a nearby non-denominational church off and on.

I lost my wife a while back, and am a cancer survivor myself. My grief support group leader suggested that I try a cancer support group, under the premise that taking care of my wife after my own treatment didn't leave me any chance to resolve my own cancer issues. The church above offers a weekly cancer support group, so I went three times since July. It actually was kind of good to talk about things.

It's a friendly group, and I'm not in any hurry to get home to my empty house, so I also sometimes stand around talking to people afterwards too.

So... Now I'm getting too much attention from the cancer group leader. Relentless invitations to go hiking. The men's breakfast at "his other" church (apparently he belongs to a different church and is fully active at both). On a whim I went to the Saturday night service yesterday, and he was there volunteering as an usher. He wandered by during the service and said he'd talk to me afterwards in the lobby.

Ok, seemed random enough, but instead he turned up a few minutes later and plopped into the seat next to me for the duration. The dude is massive. He's doing keto, and has apparently lost 100+ pounds, but he's still massive. I had to turn sideways in my seat and felt a little awkward. I wanted to move over but didn't want to seem rude.

Then he invites me to dinner. I didn't really want to go, but say I could grab something quick. He looks disappointed, so I say ok I can go somewhere. He suggests a nearby pizza place. He orders first at the counter and then insists on paying for mine. Then insists I take some of his food.

On the way out, more invitations. Hiking. Men's breakfast. Church conference Tuesday night--he says he can get me a ticket to the "sold out" event. I tell him I'm teaching that night and can't (true). He asks me if I want to go to the related breakfast the next morning. I tell him not really, that I'm not an early bird.

At some earlier point I made the mistake of giving him my phone number. Tonight, my phone rings at 11pm. It's him. I don't answer. Voicemail says to call him and that he'll be up until midnight. Text message to the same effect arrives before I can even listen to the voicemail.

I text back after about 20 minutes that I'm out with friends (as an excuse to not call) and "what's up?" He responds that he's bought a ticket for the breakfast, and wants to know if I want him to get me one. I say no, I have a dentist appointment (true).

At first I thought he was a little pathetic and probably lonely. Now he's gone from perhaps a little too friendly, to annoying, to really creepy in a matter of days. I'm tired of the relentless invitations to events at not one but two churches, tired of making polite excuses, and as of tonight I'm really weirded out by this guy.

Btw, on top of all of the above, I learned Saturday night that he's a prison guard, literally. His over-the-top attention is really creeping me out.

Am I crazy?

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: September 30, 2019 02:18AM

Anon4this Wrote:
> Am I crazy?



(Politely, but firmly.)

He has an agenda of some kind, and it is not your agenda.

From a woman's perspective, it is time for you to "disappear."

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Posted by: LJ12 ( )
Date: September 30, 2019 05:51AM

This is stuff I’ve had to deal with too. It feels really horrible and no you are not crazy. I think deep down I felt disappointed and hurt too, because you think you’re just making a supportive friends, but turns out they actually need something (and too much) from you.

Is this man gay? Just a thought and probably not. But if not he does have an agenda, like getting you into his church. Or he could just be controlling generally and that’s the extent of it.

Speaking as a woman who has dealt with this a lot (not just in a dating context though, women do it too) you have two choices. You can confront him and calmly but clearly state your boundaries, ie. that you prefer to do your own thing, and if you want to go to dinner, breakfast or to church with him or anyone else, you will let them know - you need your space and don’t want people calling you up. That should work, and if not you then have grounds for a harassment charge (but I’m sure it won’t come to that).
OR you can change your number and never go anywhere he will be ever again.(!)

Sorry you have experienced this after going through so much already, it’s the last thing you need. You kind of need him out of the way so you can continue making better acquaintances.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: September 30, 2019 06:33AM

Most people know better than to call at 11 p.m. I think your instincts are on target. You might try something like, "I'm not interested in doing any activities right now. If I change my mind, I'll let you know." But it sounds to me like you might have to give that church and that support group a good, long, break.

You also might consider asking around (in a subtle way) about him. If he's doing this to you, there's a good chance that he's done it to others as well. And the other people may have figured out what he's up to.

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Posted by: Ted ( )
Date: September 30, 2019 08:28AM

Yeah, agreed. It's over the top. You don't need people like that in your stressful.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: September 30, 2019 10:18AM

I've had stalkers, but there was a girl I met in the singles ward. She ended up being my roommate because my roommate was moving out and she told this girl I was going to need a roommate. She wanted me to spend every free moment with her. Then she married a guy who had been asking me out for months and he finally asked her out. I always turned him down. I was not interested.

So they got married. I got married 9 months later. Then it was she and her husband asking us to go somewhere. If I said we had plans that evening, then how about the next evening or the next or the next. AND of all things, I worked at the same company as she did, so I couldn't get rid of her.

We had to just freeze them out. I'm a people pleaser, so this was very difficult for me to do. If you give them any little tiny bit of hope by doing something just to be nice, then you have to start all over again.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2019 10:19AM by cl2.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: September 30, 2019 10:31AM

Being nice is over rated. Big Time.

You will have to come straight out and say it. "I have to wash my hair that night."*

When I was a kid this is what girls said to guys who called them for a date they didn't want to go on.

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Posted by: Michaelmas Yesterday ( )
Date: September 30, 2019 12:30PM

Done & Done Wrote:
> Being nice is over rated. Big Time.
> You will have to come straight out and say it. "I
> have to wash my hair that night."*
> When I was a kid this is what girls said to guys
> who called them for a date they didn't want to go
> on.

Isn't using a euphemism like that "being nice"?

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: September 30, 2019 12:39PM

Not really. Being told someone would rather wash their hair than go out with you is a kick in the gut cuz everyone knew what it meant.

It was more "chicken" than nice.

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Posted by: tumwater ( )
Date: September 30, 2019 09:08PM

I got a few " got to wash my hair" replies to a date request.

But the most memorable one was where the response was followed up with "would you like to come over and wash it for me"?

I did and we had a great time, even cut her bangs.

I think her mother was more turned on then either of us, it was just a fun night.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: September 30, 2019 11:54AM

Yeah, it's creepy. Whatever his motives are, they aren't in line with the level of "friendship" you had in mind.

How awkward. You are going to have to turn him down until he finally gets the hint or a new person to bug.

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Posted by: Michaelmas Yesterday ( )
Date: September 30, 2019 12:39PM

The obvious answer is to remove yourself from the cancer group, and that church. It is likely that he is misreading you. It is very difficult for men to read women, because women sometimes hide their feelings, which leads to a double bind - i.e. is she disinterested or is she playing hard to get? This leads to a lot of wasted time (and money), dancing around and, yes, pain.

I have mixed feelings about talking groups. I think that they do help people, especially addicts, and allow people to speak their minds. However, I also think they have a tendency to flatter members, whereas sometimes people need to be told hard truths.

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Posted by: frankie ( )
Date: September 30, 2019 01:58PM

are you a male? he really likes you. or is very lonely, he feels connected to you, but you don't. maybe you should never be with him again, maybe this guy is a mental case and you are picking up bad vibes from him.

I hope I don't come across like this to some people, I get obsessed too, I have to control myself

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 30, 2019 03:09PM

Do him a favor and ask him to go on that 12-mile run you've been planning. When he demurs, get all mad and tell him you hate slackers, then storm off, muttering imprecations under your breath.

Works every time when someone does that to me.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: September 30, 2019 03:30PM

Imprecation? Imprecation! What kind of Lamanite uses that word?! Did you read the BoM and turn white or something? :)

Geez, I had to look it up.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 30, 2019 05:00PM

> What kind of Lamanite
> uses that word?!

One who is trying to pass as Puerto Rican!

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: September 30, 2019 08:47PM

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 30, 2019 09:53PM

If you drink a tall glass of warm, sour milk, then you can hurl imprecations, which is veddy, veddy cultured!

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Posted by: sd ( )
Date: September 30, 2019 04:57PM

Jim Carrey in "Cable Guy" Spooky

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Posted by: not logged in (nli) ( )
Date: September 30, 2019 05:08PM

Talk to the non-denom church pastor and explain the problem, that you feel stalked. Maybe he can give you some insight into Weird Clingy Guy's behavior, or even get Weird Clingy Guy to back off.

If you can add that Weird Clingy Guy's antics make you so uncomfortable that you're reconsidering your church activity, the pastor will have an immediate incentive to help remedy the situation.

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Posted by: Gordon B. Stinky ( )
Date: September 30, 2019 08:01PM

You don't need a new best friend, or a personal social director. And participating in the support group shouldn't mean being badgered incessantly by this guy. If he can't respect normal boundaries and social mores, than he shouldn't be leading the group (IMO).

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2019 08:02PM by Gordon B. Stinky.

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Posted by: ConcernedCitizen 2.0 ( )
Date: October 05, 2019 04:38PM

..."friends" have a number of things in common.

#1:...they all want to borrow $20.00 bucks.

#2:...if they know you have a truck, you have to help them move.

#3:...if you argue with them, they will slander the hell out of you.

"Keep your friends "close", but your enemies closer"

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Posted by: Anon4this ( )
Date: October 05, 2019 01:09PM

Thanks for your thoughts everyone.

So the next day (Monday) I sent an email, and cc’ed the church staffer whom he always cc’s on emails, saying this:

“Please remove me from the group roster and mailing list.”

I had decided to not offer any details, so that he wouldn’t have anything to “negotiate” over, and assumed he’d get the picture.

He responded the next morning as follows:

“I have removed you from the mailing list as you requested. I also sent out an email to the group requesting that they delete your name if they have you on their mailing list. If you need anything you have my number and email address. Please feel free to contact me.”

Seems reasonable, except that the broadcast instruction to the entire group to delete my email address seems weird (he should have been bcc’ing anyway).

I had assumed my direct message to be removed from the group would be sufficient, but it wasn’t. Later in the day my phone rang. It was him. I didn’t answer. It rang twice more in the next few minutes. He finally left a voicemail asking if I also wanted him to remove my phone number from his phone too. So he’s not so dense that he doesn’t realize that my “rejection” may be larger in scope than the support group, but he’s apparently hoping it it’s not....

So, the next day I sent the following by email:

“Re. your phone message, I don't want any contact at all. None. I didn't come to the cancer support group to find a new best friend, or a personal social director. I'm tired of the relentless invitations, but the late-night call about an event in which I had already expressed disinterest was the last straw. You don't seem to ever hear, ‘no.’ Your attention makes me increasingly uncomfortable, and is unwanted. Thanks for understanding. “

I had decided again not to offer much detail, but to try to be very direct w/o name calling or accusations. Naturally, in spite of saying that I want no contact, he responded not once, but twice. The next morning he sent this:

“Thank you for letting me know what I did wrong. That is the only way that I can correct my actions. I'm sorry and apologize and hope you will forgive me. My intention was not to make you feel uncomfortable or upset you. I'm trying hard to keep the cancer group going and my agresivness has caused you to leave. I will keep the group strictly that and not get social outside the group unless asked. Sorry to have lost you as a member of the group. Your thoughts and input will be missed by all. I'm asking as a Christian for your forgiveness and a second chance. I pray that one day you may return to the group. I've deleted your number from my phone. Thanks for your support in the past. God bless!”

Then a little later he sent this:

“I wouldn't have called you late that night but I had purchased a ticket from [the church] and my church offered me a free ticket and a ride to the event and I wanted to go with them. It was a short notice and I was trying to give the ticket away so it wouldn't go to waste. You where the only one that may have been able to use it at the time. I ended up giving it to one of the pastors Tuesday night to try and give away. Again I'm sorry and apologize.”

This second followup of excuses is just complete BS. As I mentioned above, I had told him I did not want to go. But even more so, because he kept badgering me about my polite excuse (that i don’t care for these crack-of-dawn events) that I finally said “look, I can get up if I want to. I just don’t want to go.” But the guy never hears “no”.

So, the notion that it would otherwise be “wasted” is bull$hit. If he gave it to me it WOULD be wasted, because I had no intention of going.

To the notion that it was short notice...bull$hit...the event was three days away.

To the notion that only I could use it...bull$hit...he could have broadcast the whole group, or Facebook, or whatever (and I had no intention or interest in using it). Even emailing me would have been less intrusive than calling me at 11pm.

Even the notions that I’ve been supportive or will be missed is bull$hit. I’ve only been three times, several weeks apart. Only one other person has even been there all three times. And only one twice. It’s apparently a revolving group of attendees. No one knows me, let alone will miss me.

To me it all just seems like manipulation, but a couple of his odd word choices reconvince me that it’s not “friendship” that he’s looking for, and I wonder if anyone else notices.

Anyway, I’m ranting some here instead of lashing out at him directly. I’m torn between just ignoring him at this point, or really doubling down on “no more contact” (phone, email, snail mail, don’t show up on my doorstep, etc, and cc’ing the church person again. I did not cc her the second time, but probably should have.


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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: October 05, 2019 06:03PM

Your instincts are on target. I would block his phone number and send his emails to junk mail. Unfortunately, I think this is the end of your participation in that church entirely unless you want to get the pastor involved. But there are a lot of other churches out there. There are also likely other cancer support groups in your community. If you contact your community hospital, they can put you in contact with such groups. You can also try your local health department.

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Posted by: Mother Who Knows ( )
Date: October 05, 2019 03:00PM

We should have guessed that this guy wouldn't let you go easily. (Just like the Mormon cult doesn't let you go, without fighting and making you jump through hoops.

Your "stalker" is scary. I'm a woman, and have had many men stalk me like that and--yes--a few women.

By cc-ing the entire support group, this guy made sure that you left the group with no other friends. This is vindictive behavior.

You are right--he is feeding you lies and excuses, and trying to flatter you into letting him control your life.

Do you have money? Stalkers have wanted to marry me. Do you own your own house? Female stalkers have wanted to live in my house: "It's such a waste--it's unfair--for you to have such a big house, with only you living there." Stalkers have tried to make me feel guilty, have used religion to manipulate me into giving them money and attention, have even said that I am the answer to their prayers. Believe me, I have been where you are!

The only solution is NO CONTACT. Block his phone number and e-mail address. With more e-mail programs, you can leave an automatic message. Make it impersonal and stern, such as "You have been blocked from this e-mail address. Stay away from that church, for a long time, or until this guy moves on to fresh conquests. People like this frighten me, and some have turned out to be actual criminals! Don't do anything to threaten or aggravate him.

DO NOT "lash out at him directly." Run! "Disappear" as one poster said.

You already know what happens when you try to contact this creep, and when you contact anyone else to talk about him. If you run into him, look past him, and walk on. If he accosts you, tell him to leave you alone, and walk away.

I've had to shake off a lot of stalkers. Most of them were Mormons, and some even family members. Ghosting is the only thing that works.

This is a learning experience for you, as there are too many people like this running around. Next time, you will know what to do, to avoid situations like this.

I'm sorry someone ruined your nice church experience. There are a lot of nice non denominational congregations out there. Good luck.

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Posted by: LJ12 ( )
Date: October 05, 2019 03:14PM

Your feelings tell you everything. Unfortunately such people twist things in a way that is crazy making which results in ruminating and fuming over things. It’s understandable.

My advice is to not respond at all in any way shape or form.
With any luck this will be the end of it.
If it’s not, then you could probably ignore one more attempt at contact before telling him again not to contact you. Beyond that you will need a restraining order.

I really don’t think any of that will happen. If it does, let us know, I’ve dealt with this stuff myself in various forms. Usually people get bored and go away. Don’t feed it :-)

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Posted by: Gheco ( )
Date: October 05, 2019 04:29PM

It is not over.

Not sure if your are aware, but you two are dating.

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Posted by: LJ12 ( )
Date: October 05, 2019 05:54PM

LOL. That’s so mean!

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Posted by: Pooped ( )
Date: October 05, 2019 06:25PM

No contact whatsoever. It's the only way.

The "I'm a Christian and you must forgive me" is an attempt to guilt you into further contact. Don't fall for it. I wouldn't be surprised if he tries next, "I feel so guilty for my actions I could kill myself" in a desperate final attempt at contact. Don't fall for it. If he threatens depression and self- harm, call social services and report him as a possible suicide risk but do it anonymously and insist on no contact or involvement. He's basically stalking you.

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Posted by: doyle18 ( )
Date: October 06, 2019 11:50AM

I agree that no contact is the way to go, and that includes blocking all known e-mail addresses and social media.

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Posted by: Jd ( )
Date: October 06, 2019 01:56PM

People who claim they are the victims of multiple stalkers are usually narcissist.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: October 06, 2019 03:00PM

Thanks for your input, Jordan. Please email CZ, 'K?

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Posted by: laperla not logged in ( )
Date: October 08, 2019 06:00PM

really! Since I hate attention and love to sit home and read by myself, I think I don't qualify as a narcissist.

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