"You have a choice to make, between your doubts or your family. You choose. You breath one word of your doubts to our kids and we are through!"
I told her I chose to follow the truth, the evidence to where it leads and let the consequences follow. And if she had a problem with me being honest with our children to keep them safe from KNOWN pedophiles in our Ward/Family then don't let door splichawherethegoodLord splitchaon the way out!
She didn't care much for that response, nor did she care tor my bad attitude about the church and Mormons on general, after finding out about 3 separate cases of Mormon sex abuse, involving 10 kids, all of whom were Mormons and forced to remain silent.
I wasnt about to subject my kids to that. She had a fight on her hands.
She enlisted her Mom, who enlisted our Bishop, who also was wifes's OB/GYN, who delivered our tribe of kids. He enlisted Stake President, who enlisted an Area Authority.
They all came to my house for an intervention. A lawyer and my Nazi TBM wife's OB/Gyn. With her in the other room with our kids, listening to my every word.

Marvelous introduction!

I await, with bated breath, the proceedings of Chapter the First!

in b 4 ~ OPie follow the truth ~

I'm routing for you anonymous... Don'cave in.

You deserve to be respected. If your wife is threatened by that


then she's got a problem .

It's a damn hard problem to solve, though.

Having kids is giving hostages to fortune, and A4T1's wife is using that as a source of leverage. I'm glad I don't have to decide whether, and when, to precipitate a separation.

Good luck, A4T1.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a damn hard problem to solve, though.
>
> Having kids is giving hostages to fortune, and
> A4T1's wife is using that as a source of leverage.
> I'm glad I don't have to decide whether, and
> when, to precipitate a separation.
>
> Good luck, A4T1.


Thats true Lottie.

Hi, my friend.

Yes. With kids in the mix, the cost of divorce goes way up and the question of timing becomes relevant too. So many options to choose between, so many complicating factors. . .

Why did your TBM wife have an OB/GYN? Doesn't she trust the Lord?

(the sign of every failing argument includes, 'Nazi' so I'm hopeful that can be absent future posts. TIA!)

Her OB is also her bishop.

Sexual abuse destroys people for life. The Mormon culture's enabling of it has done enormous psychological damage. You must protect the children at all costs. It matters enormously to children if one parent stands up for them and protects them from abuse, even if the other does not.

Tell them all to go to hell, and get your kids out of there as much as you can.

How anyone can read about Smith and Young's pedophilia of a 14 year old and other teenagers, and believe in this church is beyond any sane person. Polygamy started patterns of abuse like this, from the top down of the leadership and resulting in generational pedophilia abuse in many Mormon families.

In a truly moral society, all of them should be going to jail for this, including your wife for not adequately protecting the children. It's more dangerous than leaving a child in a hot car. It rips out the soul and destroys a child's ability to feel, often for life, due to the trauma involved.

Not two hours ago a lady handed me a flyer for a "neighborhood " Halloween party at the stake center.

I handed the flyer back and told her there was no way I'd ever brimg my granddaughters to a party sponsored by a religion the promotes and justifies the sexual abuse of children.

She gave me a bewildered look. I told her to ask her daughters if the bishop ever asked them if they had sex, if they had a boyfriend, if they were gay and what color and type of underwear they wore.

She was too stunned to reply as I walked away.

Heartless Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I told her to ask
> her daughters if the bishop ever asked them if
> they had sex, if they had a boyfriend, if they
> were gay and what color and type of underwear they
> wore.

Classy response!

"She enlisted her Mom, who enlisted our Bishop, who also was wifes's OB/GYN, who delivered our tribe of kids. He enlisted Stake President, who enlisted an Area Authority."

Five mormons vs. one informed person. Looks like the mormons are outnumbered.

Sometimes an "ultimatum" such as this is actually a bluff meant to frighten you into submission, and the issuer doesn't expect to be challenged. IMO you did the right thing by calling her on it. The intervention demonstrates that she wasn't 100% serious.

You have the upper hand, but you still might want to lawyer up… just in case. In no event should you allow her to kick you out of the house.

Wow! Just f******g wow.

I wish I could Up Vote you, Lethy.

Dump the bitch and leave her in the dust. You deserve much better.

Proceed with caution, opie. You may have to stand your ground. You may have to compromise. Even adult children are traumatized by parental divorce.

"Recon" very carefully the hill you decide to defend and die on.

Wisdom.

Heartbreaking situation. I'm with caffiend on this one. Evaluate the situation VERY carefully as you decide where to hold your ground.

Please keep us posted. We are in this together.

Why do mormons think they own their kids? OP has as much right to them in every way.

Sounds like a typical Mormon marriage, which is like “The Little Engine that Could”. It was hard in the beginning, but the little Engine kept pushing ahead saying, “I think I can, I think I can” until he got over the hill. Then it was easier except, no brakes. The train built up tremendous speed, barely staying on the track. Then the Little Engine that Could slammed into the side of a mountain called “the truth” and exploded in a huge fireball.

This sounds serious. I think her calling in the troops was overkill. SHE has issues.

Does she work? Do you support her and the kids yourself? Does she realize what she loses if she divorces you? Security. Nobody will EVER love your children as you do, no matter who she finds out there in mormondom and there isn't much to look at in the singles mormon scene. She should attend a few older singles dances to see what is available. It might scare her into submission. It is UGLY out there. She's an idiot. She has a good man and she is willing to throw him away. AND if she gets a divorce, when your children are with you, you can teach them anything you want. She has NO CONTROL. And if she divorces you, FIGHT FOR YOUR CHILDREN FOR AS MUCH VISITATION AS POSSIBLE. Even if you have to live down the street so you have them AT LEAST half the time. Well, she can live down the street. I also agree--DO NOT LEAVE THE HOME.

I've been through a "divorce"--still not divorced, but separated over 20 years. It is a LIVING HELL. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2019 11:59PM by cl2.

Mormonism destroys another family.

Save your children!

I have gone into the details here many times, so I won't repeat them, but my children were physically abused by the Priesthood leaders (grown men, and fathers who also beat their own children.) The bishop's high school senior son molested my little pre-teen daughter at a church camp-out, and when she screamed, many children caught him in the act--and they all were threatened by the bishop to keep silent! My daughter was afraid to tell me, and she didn't until several years later.

This happened to my children! I was a single mother, so maybe these cowards would not have supported the child-abusers, if there had been a husband in my house to protect them. If you leave your wife, the chances of child abuse will increase.

First of all, don't buy into the Mormon "Authority" BS. Those men you mentioned and their "callings" are no measure of anything non-Mormons can relate to. They have no authority from God, and certainly no authority to tell God what to do! Mormon male arrogance can reach the level of insanity!

I'm glad your children heard what was going on. They might start getting a clue about how crazy their cult is. My children knew, before I realized it, and they led me out. Give your children credit.

Have you ever asked them, in a non-threatening way, promising to keep their secrets, "What do you think of church?" Don't put any words in their mouth. Be perfectly neutral. Just LISTEN to what they tell you! Fortunately, my children were not yet brainwashed, and they did more than just repeat the same memorized Primary chants at me.

Here's my advice. I have been there. Be sweet and apologetic to your wife, right now--go in there and promise her any lies she wants to hear. Lying is her way of life, so don't feel guilty in lying right back at her!

After she is settled down, go to a good NOT-MORMON attorney, and prepare for your divorce. Decide just how much money you are willing to give her. Hide some of your assets, if you need to, so you will have that money for the kids college, down the road. Ask your attorney what you can do to get maximum custody of the kids. (Half might be the maximum, depending on your state.) Seriously, have everything in writing, and ready to go.

I like Cl2's stand, and also Susan I/S.

After you have protected yourself and secured your children's financial future, you then approach your wife with some hard truths,

1--Yes, about those singles dances, and the single available Mormon men! Most have been indoctrinated in a polygamous, woman-demeaning cult, and they make terrible husbands and terrible friends, unless they become un-brainwashed, somehow. IMO, these make terrible step-fathers, too. Almost every second-marriage to a Mormon has failed. Your wife will be in Hell, with Mormons insisting that she get married again, Mormons setting her up with all kinds of degenerates--anyone--to take her back to the temple.

2--Your wife will become that dreaded divorced single mother, at the bottom of the social ladder. She will be marginalized. Her couples friends won't invite her places. Her friends won't want a single woman talking to their husband. Oh yeah, it's bad.

3--Your children will be marginalized. They will be "those kids from a broken home", and looked upon as charity cases.

4--Your children will be taught that they are "lesser beings", and will not be in the CK with their family. My children were taught that they and their siblings and I would "pass by each other as strangers" in the Hereafter. How horrible! This caused nightmares, and tears, until I explained that it was all made up to scare people into paying money for the temple.

5--Statistics show that children who have ONE of their parents leave the Mormon cult, grow up to leave the cult at least 80% of the time. A divorce will seal the deal for them to leave in safety and with your love and support--and they will jump at that deal! The Mormons know your children will leave, and that is why they fight so hard, and so dirty.

6--Do you notice that Mormons never talk about LOVE? You know your wife doesn't love you unconditionally--she will divorce you if you even begin to speak the truth. IMO, she's incapable of loving her children unconditionally. Russ Nelson says that unconditional love is anti-Christian! You and your children are in a cult of hate, my friend.

7--This is a possibility--maybe your wife and her parents and her OBGYN, her Bishop, her Stake President, and her Authority guy already have a new temple husband all picked out for her, already! This has happened before. Do your detective work, and research these men, and others in the ward.

8--Although you need to cover your back, and prepare for divorce, you don't need to even mention it, if you don't want to divorce her. But, DO quit the cult, quietly, and politely, because it is your RIGHT to choose your own religion. Just do it. Take back your life. Offer your children a CHOICE, and refuse to punish them if they don't go to church. Stand up for your kids! They're worth so much more than 1 crazy Mormon mom. It's probably too late for her, anyway, but maybe not. Try this, and see how she reacts. Her overkill and her "enlisting" her Mormon army of Mormon authorities, is a sign of weakness and cowardice, like that other poster said.

9--Don't fight about religion, but don't support Mormonism, either. Don't encourage your kids to attend, but if they do go, don't fight about it. Don't pay tithing. Don't be there for their baptisms. Don't support a mission. Don't send them to church schools. Encourage participation in their own schools, sports, other shared interests. Give them a happy Sunday, before and after the meetings, and life will teach them that love and family and happiness happen outside of the control of Mormonism.

Good luck. Focus on your children, and being true to yourself, too. You can do both. But, maybe you can't do it all AND keep your wife.

The above is pure gold. Well put.

My ex TBM husband did something similar and his current state of life is pretty funny to me.

This post inspired me to share a new post, but I just had to stand up and clap right here.

RMM

My 2 cents: Get the damn church out of your marriage. Find a counselor and change the narrative to where it needs to be--not about the state of your church activity, but the state of your marriage. Would she be interested in any of John Dehlin's seminars for mixed faith marriages? If that's really all your marriage is about, then start making some smart plans about the way forward. But chances are there is more to your marriage and relationship and family. I can think of three couples right off the top of my head who I didn't think would make it through the husband's loss of faith. When the dust settled, the new reality became easier to accept.

Yes, protecting your kids from the LDS sexual inquisition is important. But if you separate, you'll only lose more control over that. Try things like compromising that you won't actively dis the church to them but that you will answer any questions they pose to you honestly and age approriately.

The problem is that once your mind has been opened, and you've seen the truth, you can't unsee it. You can agree to attend, be active, whatever, and that works for some people. But short of being able to do the "eternal sunshine of the spotless mind" thing, you can't put the genie back in the bottle. So just be honest with her and tell her to call off the dogs and get on board with figuring out whether she wants to explore ways forward with the new reality or just pack it in. But don't back each other into corners where there is no wiggle room.

Thanks for the input.
Great advice in this forum.
I should have explained this was in the past and I meant to continue the above, but life intervened.
Back to the story,
I was a 5th Generation Mormon who grew up in the CULT, which covered up the abuse of my fellow scouts, by our KNOWN pedophile scoutmaster, who was a pedophile, busted, went through LDS Social Services, pronounced 'cured', never reported, and then 3 Bishops that I know VERY well (One my dentist, one a Boeing Engineer, one my best friend's Dad) all enabled this pedophile, by putting him in charge of our Boy Scout troop. Our Dad's were all too self centered to volunteer to go hiking with us on the weekends, so they all had this Incel have us over for "campouts", on his property, alone, where he picked us off one by one a night to sleep with him in his house.
Fortunately I was not one of his victims.
I saw what was going on and it was waaaaaay too sexual for me as a 12y.o. I was really turned off by the waaaaaay too sexual behavior between teenage boys, so I never went back after the first 'campout'.
I found out about the rapes from my childhood friend who called me out of the blue and asked if I'd ever been raped by our scout master. I told him I hadn't. That's when he confessed to me that he had been, for four years. That he was forced to get his Eagle Scout award before he could get a driver's license. And the only way you earned a Merit Badge in our scout troop was to give the scout master a blow job. Come to find out, that was the common theme. It happened to 7 of my Mormon friends growing up, most of whom filed a multi million dollar lawsuit against the church. It happened in my Son's case when he was a scout in a Mormon Ward, I found out about all of this when I was a scout leader in a Mormon Ward, with 2 of my boys in the scout program. At scout camp, I learned of the rape of a mentally challenged younger friend of my son's, who'd been raped by an older scout in another troop in a ward that shared our ward house, I reported it to their 2nd Counselor in their Bishopric, who was my Doctor.
He told me he knew nothing about it and to speak with the Bishop about it.
So I did. He denied knowing anything about it and assured me he'd get to the bottom of it. He lied and pretended he knew nothing about it. I told him,
"I just got done speaking with the young man's parents, who were my friends and clients, about it and they said they reported it to you and nothing came of it."
He insisted my clients were lying. I assured him they were not liars and that if I were them, I'd sue the church and him personally for allowing a sexual predator to prey on younger kids, unmonitored at scout camp, while the mentally challenged victim gets to stay home, too afraid of what happens at night with a rapist in the troop.
I told him I just gave a deposition in the case of my friends I grew up with, who were suing the church for millions of dollars for exactly this kind of cover up of child rape in the church. I told him I'd give them the contact information of the attorney in that case, just in case they want to file a lawsuit for the coverup of their mentally handicapped son's rape.
He tripped all over himself to back peddle and cover up.
Then he punished the young men who told me about the abuse, and the victim, by not allowing them to pass the sacrament, for speaking with me, a trusted adult.
...to be continued...

This is SO HORRIBLE. There isn't a good enough word for how horrible it is.

And you wife thinks the kids should attend the lds church.

it seems like the Mormons are ganging up on you, just stop with the Mormon talk and breath and live your daily life, try to change subjects with your wife, because these Mormons are batshit crazy, ganging up on a person because they don't want to be Mormon is just bullying, these people are trying to play a power trip on you.

You see you have done nothing wrong, the question is did your wife marry you for Mormonism or did she marry you because she loves you?

this is all too typical, spoken or unspoken...

It's people (OP's wife) grasping for power/control instead of unabashed love, caring-compassion, respect & trust.

Yup, that's the way Mormonism operates when one spouse Weaponizes "religion"...

ChurchCo lie #1: 'We don't tolerate abuse' when in FACT, they sometimes encourage if not facilitate it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2019 01:32AM by GNPE.

Well, Anonymouse4this1, you don't need to hear my children's horror stories, after all--you have plenty of your own!

Do you ever stop in the middle of telling/writing your stories, and wonder: "Will anyone believe me?"

You're a man, but I was nothing but a divorced single mother. Maybe Mormons believe men more, but I doubt it. I was called to be the head of the regional singles under age 40, but men well over 50 kept infiltrating the group. Women would tell me about the married ward and stake members who hit on them. Several of them tried to approach me, as well. I believed these women! So many of the women would begin their stories with: "I kept thinking I was paranoid, that I was imagining things. I was afraid of wrongly accusing that nice married family man of planning to commit adultery, if it was all in my imagination."

Our getting together and corroborating each other's experiences gave us validity, and mutual respect, and courage! We could name the perpetrators, but no one would do anything to try to stop them.

The Mormon fathers who bullied and physically abused our children also abused their OWN children. It was just a way of life for them!

We did not leave the cult as a group, but left each on our own. I left because that was the only way I could stop my children from being abused. I just had to get them out of there, and have no contact with the abusers. Some are still in the neighborhood, and they know that if they ever come to my door, that I will immediately call the police. I have grandchildren to protect, now, and these bullies will never stop. They.Will.Never.Stop.

It's too bad that those who protect, enable, and even support child abuse can't also be prosecuted as "accessories to the crimes." Any adult who KNOWINGLY puts their children in harm's way, is not a fit parent.

You can't trust your wife with your children.

Thank you for doing this for your fellow scouts, and other victims, anonymouse4this1! You are a hero!

I'm sure you will do whatever is best and safest for your children. The ultimatum is your wife's, and not yours. The advice from the other posters is good. You life your life according to Truth, Love, and Common Sense--and let your wife and her entourage walk on eggshells around YOU. I assume that YOU are in charge of the MONEY in your family. MONEY is the Mormons' God! Hang onto it. Start with refusing to pay tithing to a cult that endangers and abuses children, and go from there. You don't even have to debate JS or Jesus or anything, at this point. Mormon criminals are trying to take away your human rights, and the rights of your children.

Good luck and best wishes to you!

Sheep attract wolves. Mormons are all lah-dee-dah let’s invite them in, I feel good about this.

They aren’t equipped to protect your children since their common sense has been stripped from them. They can’t even stop closed-door interviews because an ounce of prevention would question the omniscience of church leaders.

Those who follow arrogant fools sow the wind. Unfortunately, the whirlwind follows.

Women seem far more radical than men.
They are the mother hens over the flock. Generally speaking they have been put down subjugated to abuse and intollerance and otherwise mal treated until they are starting to rebel as a group.
So my view of your situation is this. You actually have two options
1.Bow your head and say yes. OR
2.Bail out
This may seem harsh but it is the way I see it!

I'm sorry for your troubles. The Mormons are ganging up on you.

A consult with your own lawyer might be money well spent. If you live in a state where custody is normally split 50/50 between the two parents, and if you have a reasonable possibility of not being forced to take the children to church on your time with them, then you have some cards to play with.

It sounds like she's been put up to this by somebody. Someone has advised her that if she gives you an ultimatum, then you'll have no choice but to get in line, unless you want to lose your family. She's betting that you'll choose your family over your non-belief. I say this because I've seen it happen before.

You probably scared the crap out of her when you didn't cave. She went, "Now what?" and then the cavalry came riding in.

I absolutely hate it when any parent uses their children as pawns in a power struggle. It's so wrong. It sounds like she and the Mormons are circling the wagons around the children.

So what happened next?

Greyfort Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It sounds like she's been put up to this by
> somebody. Someone has advised her that if she
> gives you an ultimatum, then you'll have no choice
> but to get in line, unless you want to lose your
> family. She's betting that you'll choose your
> family over your non-belief. I say this because
> I've seen it happen before.
>
> You probably scared the crap out of her when you
> didn't cave. She went, "Now what?" and then the
> cavalry came riding in.
>
> I absolutely hate it when any parent uses their
> children as pawns in a power struggle. It's so
> wrong. It sounds like she and the Mormons are
> circling the wagons around the children.
>
> So what happened next?

So what happened next is going to blow your mind.
Not only did I have to contend with my Molly MORmON wife, I had to deal with Nazi TBM Mother-In-Law from hell, her husband, who was a Bishop at the time and her Mother, and their powerful and influential Mormon looooong time friends. She was friends with our Bishop, Stake President AND the Area Authority who came to talk me out of quitting the fucking CULT that was responsible for the rape and cover up of 10 of my fucking friends, my nieces, and a mentally handicapped kid!! I was furious.
Like I said, the Area Authority in this area is well known attorney. He came, with our Bishop, to have a chat with me, to answer my questions, since my Molly MORmON Wife, Nazi TBM MIL from hell and FIL sure as hell couldn't.

And here's the cool part....

....the morning of the appointed meeting I woke myself and my Molly MORmON wife up from a dream where I had a premonition about the conversation I was scheduled to have that night, I was YELLING at the top of my lungs, at the Stake President and Bishop,

"YOU CAN'T DENY ME MY FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!!!"

I smiled because it made me feel like Superman.

I spent the day finishing off a personal essay titled, "Why I left" and had a copy of it sitting on the side table, signed and dated that day, an hour before they arrived. I was calm and very casual. I was just wearing a t-shirt and Levis and no shoes. I invited the two men dressed like undertakers into my house and called them by their first names, since we were all friends. I wanted it to just be a casual, talk amongst friends, but I wanted answers, real answers, not that pablum I fed investigators about how great Joseph's Myth was. I was pissed. After the pleasantries they asked me what issues I was struggling with.
I said, "Well, let's take them one by one. You've probably got pat answers to all of these questions, but I want your honest opinion about the things that are honestly bothering me and I refuse to teach my children or allow them to be taught certain teachings if I can't get an honest answer.
Here's my first question, "How can American Indians possibly be Lamanites, if the DNA testing has been done and it proves there's no Semetic DNA in any American Indian tribes, North or South?"
My Bishop, who was also my wife's OB/Gyn (along with every other MORmON woman in the stake) went first.
He insisted that the DNA evidence was inconclusive and besides, that's not what matters, what matters is that we follow Christ!
I said, "You're a Doctor. You're my wife's Doctor. Why would you say that the evidence is inconclusive, when it's settled science?"
He changed the subject back to Jesus and asked me what that had to do with my Salvation.
I said, "Well, I'll tell you why I think it's relevant to my salvation, because I have a real problem with Racism. I have a problem especially with the kind of racism that is directed at blacks in the Mormon church and the kind that is directed at my wife and kids because they are Native American, not Lamanites. My whole life I grew up believing blacks and Indians "Lamanites" were cursed with dark skin because of some sin in their race's past. If as it turns out the Book of Mormon has nothing to do with the color of my wife's or my children's skin, then that's just a racist lie that needs to be debunked. Otherwise, why would we subject people to being demonized, because of the color of their skin, if it wasn't true. If the DNA evidence proves it wrong, isn't that contrary to what Christ said, to love our fellow men as ourselves? Isn't violating that commandment a sin?"
Then the lawyer (Area "Authority") chimed in and started telling a long story about his experience with racism in France as a missionary and how he wished he could baptize Africans back then and then oh what a miracle of miracles when the Prophet spoke in in 1978 about what a great miracle had happened and God told him that he was now cool with blacks, and forget about everything he said about it before. He told me when he heard that over the radio that he had to pull his car over because he got so emotional, that it was an answer to his prayers....

I was shocked.

To be continued.....

That’s just one lie. There are many more. You can prove that Smith and his coconspirators made the whole thing up. I had been lied to my whole life, which I didn’t like. While most cultures have their share of complete BS, Mormonism is a case of “What did they know and when did they know it?”

But that’s not even the main problem. The arbitrary standards designed to turn people against themselves produce messed up neurotic people. Because neurotic people pay their tithing. As you’ve discovered, when you don’t toe the line you find out who your Mormon friends really are. Their love is conditional, just like their God’s love. They’re welcome to their beliefs, but I find their beliefs ridiculous and offensive. That’s not my God.

It’s obvious too. If God loves Mormons in their insanity, it has to be unconditional. Doctrine teaching otherwise is a cheap cash grab.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2019 09:26PM by babyloncansuckit.

Anonamouse4this1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> He insisted that the DNA evidence was inconclusive
> and besides, that's not what matters, what matters
> is that we follow Christ!
>
> He changed the subject back to Jesus and asked me
> what that had to do with my Salvation.

Human shield, meet Jesus shield. Sounds like they think they can constantly deflect attention from problematical facts that indicate that their church is not what it claims to be by simply referring everything back to Jesus and salvation, subtly hoping that the unjustified presumption will go unnoticed. What's the unjustified presumption? It's the notion that the Mormon General Authorities are really Jesus's special representatives and authorized agents. They obviously are not.

Counter questions could include:

(1) If the Book of Mormon is false (see patently ridiculous passages about dark skin being a curse for iniquity), then how is one "following Christ" by participating in an organization that was founded by the guy who produced that false book?

(2) If the leaders of your church are not really the specially inspired, specially authorized agents and representatives of Christ on earth, how can following them be equated to "following Christ"?

(3) Can't the representatives of every other nominally Christian sect in the world give exactly the same response to anyone who questions the legitimacy of their organization? If you have evidence indicating that Reverend Goomus MacShmuck's snake-handling ministry is actually a money-laundering operation for a drug cartel and you start pointing to facts that indicate as much, the good reverend and elders of that church can also say "what matters is that we follow Christ" because they too talk about Christ a lot. So what? If the core authority claims of a particular religious organization are not true, then it's good to know because that means it's probably not an organization that's going to be really helping people "follow Christ".

Here is a physician who found out that it is all false.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtWNLhXbx1s


If you have some time watch the Young family broadcast. For a while one was a believing member and the other one was not. They wrote a contract on how they can stay married with different believes.

The Area Authority had to pull the car over?

That sounds suspiciously like Mitt Romney's story about hearing the news about the 1978 ban being lifted. The late Tim Russert pressed Romney on why he could remain a member with that doctrine in place, since he was a well-educated person of about 30 years old at the time. Romney said he pulled over the car and wept about the news.

That just never made much sense to me. How many Mormons are going to weep when they reverse field on LGBT issues, but won't say anything right now.

I’d be tempted to ask her if this is just a ruse ‘cause she’s got another guy (or girl). Maybe you need to discuss it with the bishop. Eh?

I betcha she turns into a cougar!

Anonamouse4this1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "You have a choice to make, between your doubts or
> your family. You choose. You breath one word of
> your doubts to our kids and we are through!"


How about this instead? "You have a choice to make, between your fanatical cult and its sordid history or your family. You choose. You breathe one more word of wacky cult indoctrination to our kids and we're through!"

Of course the 'either this or that' crisis posed by the ultimatum is entirely a creation of the ultimatum's author. It's a power play.

"You do everything my way or else I will punish you in the harshest way I can."

"You make me class president or I will burn down the school."

"You stay silent and keep your doubts to yourself, or else!"

Hmmmm... I wonder what could be the inspiration for that last one. Could it be...oh, I don't know...maybe...THE TEMPLE!!!

Apparently, they no longer threaten people with throat slitting, disembowelment and other gory penalties in the temple. But they still threaten you with being cut off from your family if you don't "bow your head and say yes" to every demand.

If you've been married 25 years, chances are your kids are adults or close to it. If you stay and remain dishonest with yourself, you will have an interesting life. Tough decision for you to make. I wish you well. BTW, where do the kids stand on this subject? TBM or goners?

Make sure you tell them you prayed about the truthfulness of the church, and you received your answer. Then the discussion will be about who prays better.

Continued....
I was shocked that these otherwise very good men, well respected, pillars of the community, professionals, a Dr and an Attorney, would just answer my sincere question with bullshit lies and anecdotal, emotional obfuscation, instead of real answers.
I told the Area Authority, "the problem for me isn't just with the past, its with the present doctrine that is still being printed and distributed as the "Word of God" when in reality they are just bogus 19th Century racist myths that have now been thoroughly debunked by Genetic evidence. Isn't propagating those bogus racist myths as real contrary to Christ's main commandment that we love our fellow men as ourselves?
(Backstory, this racist fuck defended his wife who taught my Son Brigham Young was right when he said punishment for mixing your blood with the seed of Cain was death on the spot. He said it was doctrinal, so dont expect any apology.)
Bishop claimed discrimination was for blacks and Indians own good, because so many Whites hated them so bad back then, it was too soon to mix races.
I said, Wow,thats one of the most racist statements I've ever heard. Lol
He didn't like that response and said, "We've got black people in our ward, why do you think they don't have a problem with racism in our ward?
Uh, idunno, maybe because everybody overcompensates for believing racist myths?
Lets agree to disagree on that one, moving on...
To be continued

Facts are irrelevant in Mormonism. By that reasoning it should be okay to shift your income a decimal place or two when calculating tithing. Or if you broke the law of chastity and/or went out drinking, that fact probably doesn’t matter either. Are you honest with your fellow man? Hmmm, you mean “Mormon honest”?

Don't want to spend my life, living in a Mormony fantasy
Don't want to spend my life living on the edge of reality
Don't want to waste my life, hiding away anymore
Don't want to spend my life, living in a Mormony fantasy

The 2nd question I asked was,
"I was disturbed to discover that Joseph Smith had 34 wives, 11 of whom were his follower's wives, which completely violates two of the 10 Commandments, Thou Shall Not Commit Adultery and Thou Shall not Covet Thy Neighbor's Wife and even more disturbingly, it violates the Law of the Priesthood, D&C 132:61, in 5 different ways, yet Joseph claimed to have received that law straight from God. How do you reconcile his sexual behavior with the law of God?
Lawyer (Area so-called "Authority") went first, "Well, polygamy has always been an anathema to Mormon women."
I replied, "It's not just an anathema to Mormon women, it's antithetical to the law of the land, the 10 Commandments and more importantly, the divine revelation Joseph claimed to have received straight from God."
Lawyer launched into another long, heart wrenching story about how he found out he lost is daughter to a car accident, fell to his knees and curled up in fetal position when the cops showed up at his door to tell him. And how he when went to the temple and had this overwhelming sensation that he would be re-united with his daughter in the next life and how he would NEVER give up that hope, for ANYthing.
I replied, "I appreciate the comfort that gives you. And I can't imagine how horrible that must feel to lose a child like you did. As for me, I hope to live my life in a way where I do not rely on a next life, which may not happen, to get my relationships right the first time.

to be continued....

I can't see the relationship between justifying multiple wives with the death of a daughter.

Did the lawyer marry his daughter?

Is his grandchild his child also?

Tune in next time NoMoMoPeople. Same MoTime, same MoChannel.

Really this is so good, it makes me ill.

I love your question to the Junior GA. Nicely constructed. Of course there is no way to answer you so they go for some emotional distraction as a response. Feelings.

Do feelings trump reason in any scenario other than in Mormonlandia?

Right. They couldn't possibly answer my questions, so they just distracted, went for the emotional hook instead and threatened me with losing my family for eternity if I didn't recognize their power and 'authority' over me.
This is the same Bishop who told me, "It's fine if you have doubts, but if you share them with other Mormons, I'll be forced to discipline you."
I said, "Even my wife and kids?"
He said, "Especially your wife and kids!"
I was so over it by that point, I just said, "I'll tell you one thing I believe about Mormonism probably more than either of you, that's the 11th Article of Faith, you know the one, "“We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.”
Bishop insisted that he believed in that too.
I said, "Then why are you here?"
He said, "To answer your questions."
I said, "So far you have not answered any of my questions. You just dismissed them and changed the subject instead of answering them."
He claimed they'd NEVER deny me the freedom to follow the dictates of my conscience.
I said, "Well, I'm following the dictates of my conscience. My conscience tells me that if you can't answer my questions then I can't allow my kids to be indoctrinated with hateful, bogus myths, despite the fact 5 generations of my family before me believed in them, I can't and I refuse to remain silent when my children are being indoctrinated with hateful lies. One thing we can agree upon, you don't come to my house to try and convince me of the error of my ways and I'll pay you the same respect, ok?"
We agreed and shook hands and said our farewells.
I sent in my resignation the next day.
Of course Bishop was shocked and despite the fact I asked for no contact, he contacted me and wanted to meet again, just to make sure he was not misunderstanding me, despite the fact I told him in no uncertain terms exactly why I left, because I couldn't get an honest answer to my sincere question from him, the Stake President or the Area Authority.
He came over again by himself just to make sure I really, really wanted to resign my membership.
He said he just wanted to understand what my biggest problems were, despite the fact I'd already laid them out for him and the Area so-called "Authority".
But when he came over again I said that it all started when I decided to find real answers for my kids questions instead of just feeding them the same old cliches I'd been fed and when I decided to follow the evidence to its logical conclusion, it led me to conclude that Joseph's Myth was a fraud and I couldn't deny what my conscience clearly dictated I do, leave and get my kids out with me.
He told me, "Well, it all comes down to the 1st Vision for me. It's either true or it's the biggest fraud ever foisted upon mankind."
I said, "Which version?"
He said, "Well they all agree with each other essentially."
I shook my head in the negatory direction and he said, "They're not?"
I said, "No, in fact the official version is the 4th version, written 18 years after the fact, under great duress, from jail, after all of the original witnesses had left the church and Joseph needed to salvage some kind of authority. The original version, the only one written in his hand, made no mention of God and Jesus and only mentioned, "The Lord" singular. Seems like a pretty huge discrepancy to me."
He said, "I didn't come over here to get into a contentious argument with you."
I said, "I'm not arguing. You asked to come over under the pretense of wanting to understand why I wanted to leave. I didn't even get through the first, of many reasons before you started telling me that it all came down to the First Vision for you. It does for me too. The whole history of the First Vision proves its a fraud, but you don't want to hear that because you've got too much invested in the Mormon church. Look, I have zero desire to disabuse you of your beliefs. But don't come over here trying to convince me or my kids that a fraud represents reality, because it clearly doesn't. I much prefer reality to the racist, misogynist, homophobic, doomsday narrative I was fed as a child and swallowed hook, line and sinker. It may be too late for me to rebuild my life, but it's not too late for my kids to make a new life for themselves, one that's not built upon hateful lies.
We agreed to disagree and said our goodbyes.
He asked if he could still drop by to drop off Christmas cookies and holiday wishes. I said sure, as long as it's as a friend and not my Bishop.
So I was done.
But my wife and kids were still Mormons.
So I had my work cut out for me.
My wife came out from behind the wall and said, "Wow. You told him!"
She wasn't happy and it was tough making the transition out with my family in tact. Like I told her, "You may not always be my wife, but our kids will always be my kids and that's my highest priority."
....to be continued....

As one of those people who always thinks of what to say twenty minutes after the fact, I am in awe of the way you wield fact and reason and redirect.

I am rooting for you like crazy.

My brother is an Area Seventy or Area Authority or whatever they call their "dodge a question specialists."

“Of course Bishop was shocked and despite the fact I asked for no contact, he contacted me and wanted to meet again,”

How could their special project have gone wrong? They said a prayer beforehand and felt so confident in the Lord to deliver the goods. Inconceivable!

Why did he think he would be eternally separated from his daughter?

Because that's what the Church has taught him would happen...UNLESS he signed up to receive the Church's proprietary, patented, exclusive "sealing ordinances" for the low, low price of a paying 10% of his annual income for life and pledging eternal obedience and loyalty to the leaders of the Church.

Most other Christian faith traditions believe that the spirits of loved ones will be free to be together in the afterlife (unless they go to hell for some heinous crime or fail to simply "believe" in Jesus). No sealing ordinances are required for family reunions to occur.

So Mormonism FIRST had to teach its adherents about eternal family separation (injecting the poison) in order to THEN offer their ridiculous handshakes and sealing mumbo-jumbo as the cure (selling the overpriced antidote).

>>Lawyer launched into another long, heart wrenching story about how he found out he lost is daughter to a car accident, fell to his knees and curled up in fetal position when the cops showed up at his door to tell him. And how he when went to the temple and had this overwhelming sensation that he would be re-united with his daughter in the next life and how he would NEVER give up that hope, for ANYthing.

Being reunited with your family and loved ones in the afterlife is a nearly universal Christian belief. It is taken for granted at Catholic and mainstream Protestant funerals that the survivors will see their loved ones again. It is pure arrogance for TBMs to believe that they have some sort of "secret sauce" for this belief.

My biggest issue with Joseph's Myth was that it was a bogus, dangerous doomsday narrative that has no place in society after we possed nukes.
Every monotheist is Patriarchal, Authoritative, sexist, misogynist, racist and homophobic. But Mormonism is different.
It turns good men, like the man who delivered 3/4 of my children, my dentist, my Doctor, my Oral surgeon, lawyers, engineers, my best friends Dad, into whipped men who look the other way when they become aware of something ugly as sin. They want NO part of it.
Rape, sexual abuse of children, silence. They all punished victims. They ALL intimidated, threatened, silenced real victims.
They ALL circled the wagons, protected the pedophile, blamed the GD pedaphiles, just because they were Penis holders, ictim,
I encouraged all 10 victims I know personally to contact a lawyer who has won millions in settlements for most of them, against this abusive doomsday sex CULT.
Any Victims of sexual abuse out there who were Mormon kids and reported it to an LDS leader, and you got treated like the above, you are sitting on a pot of gold.

I can't get over how well you are handling this although I know it must be the hardest thing to go through. But so many I read here seem to relinquish their rights to their own children for the sake of some defeat disguised as a compromise.

I get how horrendous it is to have an entire ward/community with their leaders side with the TBM spouse and attempt to cut the other out, but giving up your right to express your own honest observations and knowledge to your own children is too high a price to pay.

The Mormon church disgusts me and this very scenario of yours is why I hate people who say the church is bad but the people in it are good. They are not. This includes my own family. I can only say they have a good side in spite of the ugly rod they cling to.