Well this seems super Christlike

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2019/11/petition-started-regarding-brigham-young-university-idahos-rejection-of-medicaid-expansion/

Why do students need insurance? Aren't priesthood blessings enough?

I don't need health care. I've got my bottle of consecrated motor oil.

After reading the article I think that BYUI will lose this case. The reasoning will be that not accepting people who are complying with the federal laws (which includes Medicaid) will be looked at as being bigoted and uncaring. I can see the manufactured tears and contrived outrage already.

In reality this is a great thing for the student body, If these kids don't have insurance then the responsible thing for them should be to leave the make believe world of the classroom, and go get real jobs, that have insurance. College should be for the upper class, the talented 10%, those meant to be there who will lead the herd, the rest of us don't need student loans to learn esoteric jargon, to run parts through a machine, build a house, or clean a bathrooms. All we need to know is how to hold our bladders, be nice, and smile at management.

Why every silly SOB has to follow his guidance counselor/church authority and go to college is beyond me. We all should think outside the box, throw off the chains of conformity and start using our brains.

macaRomney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> College should be
> for the upper class, the talented 10%, those meant
> to be there who will lead the herd, the rest of us
> don't need student loans to learn esoteric jargon,
> to run parts through a machine, build a house, or
> clean a bathrooms.

^
<>
V

> We all should think outside the box,
> throw off the chains of conformity and start using
> our brains.

What a great way to fend off conformity. Put on a uniform that everyone else is wearing to work instead of going to school.

Exactly. The only way out of conformity and effective indentured servitude is education.

I have a blue collar friend who takes many college courses for his own personal edification.

His teacher wife works at a Catholic school and has to keep her religious certification up. He basically works with her and completes this with her (maybe does it for her.)

He is an atheist and knows more about religions than many people I know.

The idea that we should be vocationally educated only and only wealthy people should educate for edification is a very poor mental outlook on life in my opinion.

Yes.

Or learn a trade like my son did. Good honest and in some cases high paying work.

Yes. Where I am, there is a great shortage of trades services. There can be a year wait and many don't take new customers- if they bother to call back. Finding rain gutter, cement and sprinkler specialists or construction related anything has been difficult.

People trained in trades who are good and have any kind of customer service can demand any price and get it where I live. I would pay more for a good plumber and construction project manager than a college trained anything.

We should encourage anyone who shows the aptitude to work in trades. It's hard work that requires skill and talent.

>>I would pay more for a good plumber and construction project manager than a college trained anything.

Well, you would also pay good money to an accountant, lawyer, nurse, physician, etc. should you require their services.

But I agree that the trades are a great option for many. I was watching the PBS show, "Super Skyscrapers" this evening, and the skill level of the construction workers portrayed boggled my mind. They earn every penny that they get paid.

I agree it is a great idea to get out of BYUI, but I feel a college education is still an asset in the job market. I can't tell you how many jobs I have gone after or wanted- with years of success and experience in my field- only to be passed by because I have no degree. As I get older it has become even more frustrating. I recently went all out for a position that I felt I was, IMHO, over qualified for. They hired a young guy right out of school- with zero experience- because he had a degree. It is a huge disappointment in my life not to have finished school and it is a life goal of mine to finally graduate. The cost is perhaps greater than the reward salary wise, but education has a value in and of itself.

This is a brilliant post.

A college degree increases one's lifetime by between one and three million depending on the study one consults. There is consequently an undeniable financial benefit.

But that is far from the only reason to do so. It is in college that people are given a chance to think about community, ethics, and society's needs. The day people stop garnering higher education is the day society loses the ability to debate and decide upon public morality. The next thing you know, billionaires who lack the mental infrastructure to evaluate the implications of decision are running things.

I applaud anyone who at any age and in any form seeks further and broader education. Bravo, Aaron.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2019 08:23PM by cl2.

Do you like to talk to people on variety of subjects? Do you find the mental stimulation of conceptual things very interesting. Do you love exploring the richness of experiences with thinking about things outside your own experiences?

An autodidact is basically a self taught somebody.

I know white and blue collar people for whom TV and their own life experiences is all they want to talk about. I listen and am friends with them but they don't think about wider things and when they do it is often political and prepackaged opinions they thought they should adopt. They don't have much information for why they hold these opinions outside of a personal experience of themselves of others that reinforced it such as they knew so and so on welfare and they ate lobster and steak every day.

"Maybe 'she' needs more education."

It is elitist to think we all need a college education to be able to have a conversation or to reach a goal as per dagny below--that is of any interest to those of you who put yourselves above the rest because you have a degree. Have any of you hoed beets? Hauled hay? I'll bet Lethbridge Reprobate can carry a conversation as he is a FARMER and he has worked harder I'm sure than any of us and he reaches goals every season or he doesn't earn a living. My daughter has a degree and she has had a hard time getting a job in Logan, Utah. She worked in Alaska for 11 summers and worked her way up. Her bosses don't have degrees. She came back here to get a job after getting married and got a job the same as her uneducated husband. I knew she'd end up going back to Alaska eventually as they wanted her for her work ethic--which she learned from me. When she got up there the first summer and worked as a HOUSEKEEPER (while still in college in winter), she wrote to me and said, "Thank you for teaching how to work." She is going back to Alaska as they have asked her to--to do a job that pays almost as much as my boyfriend and it has nothing to do with her degree, but the work ethic I taught her. How many of you have held jobs for more than 20 years in one place? Goals?

I don't have anything to prove to you guys, which is why I deleted my other posts. The people in my life including men with Ph.D.'s are my friends and have been for 40+ years. My boyfriend has a master's. He sure seems to think I can carry a conversation since he was thrilled when I showed up back in his life some 27 years after we first dated and have been together 15 years.

My sister has worked for social services for 28 years and she is retiring at 58. She has no degree. Her boss is freaking out because she is losing her as she is the ONLY ONE WHO DOES THE WORK and the others don't do their jobs. Like I said, my brother has a job where he earns over $200,000 with a GED. My other brother before his stroke worked for the army translating Russian in Berlin. I have one sister with a degree. My nephews don't have degrees, but earn more than their sister with a degree and my nephew with a Master's. He was a sterling scholar and valedictorian.

I must not be able to hold my own in a conversation, so this dummy will shut up now. I really can't believe your elitist attitude. I'd like to challenge any one of you to do the work I do--even the doctors. Hey, if you're a doctor, LEARN TO DICTATE if you care about your patients. Most of you are LOUSY dictators.



Edited 10 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2019 10:56AM by cl2.

cl2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I
> really can't believe your elitist attitude.

My attitude? I don't care if someone holds a degree. It is what it potentially means that I care about. Intellectual curiosity and care in creating and supporting a position with the open mindedness to change positions if warranted is what I think of when I think of really intelligent conversation. Most people don't think much about their positions or the history they have making them other than personal anecdotes.

I hope you don't feel like I've personally attacked you. I don't think anyone has in this thread.

People who seek education seek "to know" things which is admirable. You can do it without a piece of paper but that requires self discipline. Seeking endorsements or certifications with higher education is another story.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2019 01:11PM by Elder Berry.

You are seriously misreading what people are posting.

cl2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow!! I can't believe that attitude at all.

Also Intelligence <> Education. Plenty of Mormon leaders are well educated and don't seem really intelligent to me.

I don't think you understood my point.

"I applaud anyone who at any age and in any form seeks further and broader education."

I repeat that; I underscore it; and I hope you can see what I meant by it.

Aaron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The cost is perhaps
> greater than the reward salary wise, but education
> has a value in and of itself.

It can make talking with people much more interesting. I prefer autodidacts and liberally educated people in conversation because they have trained minds. Who wouldn't want that?

I think having the degree might demonstrate a few things:

The ability to complete a long term goal
Demonstration that the person was exposed to a minimum discussion of diverse topics
The ability to incorporate information to complete requirements
Teachable

In my job I would rather select the person with the qualities I need because they can be taught. I select the qualities and teach the skills.
If I pick a person with experience, they may not have the qualities that indicate what they have been exposed to and that they complete goals. Sometimes they do. It's not an easy decision. Experience is important but application of the principles behind what we are doing is also important. I have had people with experience not understand the science behind what they are doing. Sometimes that works out but when it comes time to depend on expertise for projects, education matters.

I am watching this story with interest.

They want it both ways. When my husband was in professional school, all the other Mormon students were on Medicaid. The wife didn't work. They were encouraged to have kids immediately. They ended up on welfare all through school.

University age people are generally healthy with exception of childbirth costs. I can't believe the lack of empathy toward the students who are already in debt. On TV last night (in Idaho), students were stressed about how to come up with the money with little warning and holiday break coming dealing with not having their insurance accepted.

This shows financial weakness of BYUI too, IMO.

I'm going to call this out more explicitly.

There are two types of slaves in this world: those who are kidnapped, sold, and treated as chattel, enslaved by society and by law. Then there are the willing ones, Nietzsche's herd animals, those who do not aspire to independence but choose to be followers, those who do not question authority. This latter category of "slaves" comprise those who aren't democrats at all but rather temperamentally inclined to dictatorship.

Consider this excerpt:

> College should be
> for the upper class, the talented 10%, those meant
> to be there who will lead the herd, the rest of us
> don't need student loans to learn esoteric jargon,
> to run parts through a machine, build a house, or
> clean a bathrooms. All we need to know is how to
> hold our bladders, be nice, and smile at
> management.

I don't know how anyone with a milliliter of self-respect could pen that. Here is someone who exults in being a "herd" animal and who believes that all he and 90% of the rest of society "need to know is how to hold our bladders, be nice, and smile at management."

Why, macaRomney, do you choose to live in a democracy, a system of government that requires that all its members are educated, self-respecting, and involved in civic affairs; people who do not "be nice and smile at management" but rather demand that management account for its performance? Democracy is a political order in which the rulers are responsible to the ruled, not one in which the 90% opt for ignorance and impotence.

You define what Nietzsche described as a "slave morality," what he warned would lead to totalitarianism in, specifically, Germany and Russia. Does that not give you pause for thought?

Do you really see personal fulfillment in voluntary submission, voluntary servitude? In impotence?

So even though a student qualifies for Medicaid health insurance, BYU-I is going to force them to purchase an additional policy.

That's just being an arrogant jerk. Somebody up there is in touch with their inner-Bednar. I hope the BYU-I administration gets their heads handed to them in court.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2019 12:33AM by Brother Of Jerry.

If federal money isn't good enough to cover students medical insurance then perhaps buyi shouldn't get federal dollars for pell grants, financial aid, nsf grants etc.

Did Rusty have some prophetic dream with visions of the future, or is it just another money-making scheme? Things that make you say hmm.


"Brigham Young University Idaho says it does not think the local medical community and infrastructure could support thousands of students who might use Medicaid expansion to provide basic health insurance.

In a statement Wednesday, BYU-Idaho said that is why it decided the school would require its students to purchase private insurance policies to meet its insurance waiver requirements."



https://localnews8.com/news/2019/11/20/byu-idaho-health-infrastructure-cant-support-students-on-medicaid/?fbclid=IwAR0v7OKgt03KtJH8Bjw3ixeQs1CEG2FFrvvGdLTX4okc0GhUtIx11g-yGWQ

I read about that in the New York Times last night. It strikes me as nothing more than the church trying to milk more money out of college students. It sucks, because some of them will have to drop out of school and may never be able to return. They’ll potentially be caught in a cycle of poverty. Meanwhile, their tithes will be lower.

LDS inc. is always about the money. However, if you want to look on the bright side, maybe this will get some of the students to realize the Mormon church isn't as great as they thought. There are other universities in Idaho, ISU in Pocatello is not far from Rexburg, so, if they really want to continue their education, other options are possible.

True. I hope it leads some to find better options.

Yikes. The University Plan is a student funded co-op and is not real insurance. Not a good option.

The local doctors don't agree with BYUI and the university's newspaper and radio station are being told not to report on it. Hmm.

https://www.postregister.com/news/education/local-doctors-question-byu-idaho-medicaid-claims/article_39a44e74-7203-5bd4-8060-52c1a0fc5551.html?fbclid=IwAR37KwkLO2n5Clg7Y3ZfR3eub7MIjoSegG-jI-akZfcGL3H_oEmnUKNJGn4

My hat's off to you, for your determination, Aaron! (Or should I say, my Viking helmet).

My husband completed his college education at the same time our kids were in junior high and grade school and we were in our 40's. We were up many nights until 2 or 3 am with my husband writing his papers and me proofreading them.

It was worth it because it opened doors of opportunity for him.

I started college but never finished and I regret that I didn't have the gumption to obtain my degree; at that time, being the dutiful little TBM that I was, I concentrated more on finding a husband. If I had obtained my degree, I would never have sought employment where I did and would have had a good salary.

Anyway, I hope they come down hard on BYUI; that's not right what they are trying to do to the students.

this is Clearly a case of 'Protect the Church' so ChurchCo doesn't take any flak in case of a (serious) illness or injury.


That's what ChurchCo does best, to hell with the members as individuals, time & time again.

How does LDS Corp. justify not accepting Medicaid as legitimate health insurance at BYU-Idaho, but DOES accept it at the BYU-Provo and Hawaii campuses?

They can't.

But it's fun to imagine them squirming when asked this by news outlets and student groups.

Why such short lead-time in telling these student-families that their Medicaid will henceforth be unacceptable? That is the first problem I see.

Responsible, fiscally-aware young married students will not follow their church's encouragement to have (arguably) too many babies too soon.

Encourage them to graduate. If they are encouraged to marry so early, they ought not be discouraged from obtaining birth control.

Local doctors in news reports I read said the "local health resources" will not be overwhelmed by too many Medicaid recipients. False reason given by the church - they just don't want their young people to control when they bear offspring.

The LDS Church is very short-sighted.

I don't understand the problem.. if you need medical care and don't have insurance, just go the local ER. They can't turn you away.

Don't believe me, just check with your local hospital and ask them what happens to the homeless, the illegal immigrants, etc., they all are getting free treatment.

The newspaper article was in the Seattle Times yesterday, Sunday 11/24/19.

Haha!

Thanks to feedback they’ve received, they’ve changed their minds...


I mean ghawd changed their minds...

ETA: Even members of Reddit's faithful r/LDS subreddit thought the school was in the wrong. The link also takes you to a SLTribune article.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2019 05:24AM by elderolddog.