Has anyone ever thought or heard an idea that the mormon church itself is a narcissist?

Some of the traits I see, not in everyone, but in general, include "relationships" that are on-purpose mostly very demanding, but at the same time, superficial. Controlling? horrifyingly so. thought control? duh.

Thanks for the opportunity to vent. I'd be curious to hear what others think along these lines.

I am a nevermo and still learning about all of this... but my ex is an absolute narcissist and I can see where the LDS church fits her like a glove. So I am inclined to think you are correct.

There seem to be a lot of narcissistic traits in the church and it seems to appeal to people who are narcissistic. Or so it seems in my admittedly limited experience.

I'm a nevermo also---and so have been confused and surprised by many, many of the things that have occurred. I think maybe there is both what you suggest--that the traits of the church attract people who are narcissistic--but I also wonder if it doesn't literally train them into people. THings like appearances being so important, cognitive dissonance as a norm--arranging so there seems to be friendship, community and caring, but when it comes to real intimacy, lots of things to block it, busy-ness being #1---and the control thing. Oh my goodness. the garments. telling you what you can and should be eating and drinking. the assigned "friends" whose job is not only to "be a friend in need" but to check up on you and also give you a little training to keep both you and them enculturated. Separating the kids from their parents for 2 years for the missions, with again, apparent freedom and yet very close supervision and lack of freedom. and on it goes. Just wierd. But isn't that one of the characteristics of narcissim: confusion? Thanks for responding.

truly believe and are good people, who are then used and abused by the narcissists. Men and women are both victims of the narcissism, so I was never one to care if the women got the priesthood. I didn't want it. I saw those men who got abused because of holding the priesthood.

It is lost in its own delusions

Preaching out both sides of it's face

Making unbelievable claims

And expecting unrealistic IMPOSSIBILITIES

A slave driver
In a prison society
In a dark cave
On a precipice
Backed into a corner

It's communism.
Right? Or worse!

I don't think it is the obvious things like controlling behaviors, blessing blind obedience, their healthy serving of guilt and shame especially tied to their ideals of perfection.

What makes The Mormon Church such a vehicle for narcissism for me is its focus on family. Abuse and abusers are most comfortable in familial environments.

The Smiths were a dysfunctional family who thought they had special powers and therefore had a heavenly mandate to abuse others.

Jesus on the other hand wasn't family obsessed.

"Jesus calls his disciples to give their allegiance first and foremost to him. Those who forsake human security, including their families, will receive “a hundredfold now in this age – houses, brothers and sisters, mothers and children, and fields, with persecutions – and in the age to come eternal life” (Mark 10:29–31). In calling into question the primacy of the family, Jesus asks us to imagine a different social order, an all-encompassing community based not on natural ties but on discipleship. Jesus came to establish the new family of God, a family of disciples who follow him with the entirety of their lives (Matt. 10:34–37)."
https://www.plough.com/en/topics/community/education/jesus-surprising-family-values

The Mormon Church is a perfect vehicle for people who think that they are special and abuse others as a result. Narcissist's will find a perfect home in Mormonism's forever families.

THank you, Elder Berry. Very helpful discussion-both parts.

I think narcissists may be attracted to it because of its "ready made network" of friends or acquaintances (ward and stake members) whom they can take advantage of.

Narcissists often run out of friends in society because they can be abusive and controlling. But just imagine if they burn their bridges with one person in the ward, they can move onto the next, and the next and the next.

Narcissists often lie or embellish the truth and would often be shunned or kicked to the curb by a lot of people but Members who are taught to be kind to everyone, no matter what, will often be nice to narcissists or too gullible to recognize them as such, and can be taken for a ride. This only feeds the narcissist.

Also, let's say there's an active narcissist who contributes lots of time or money to the church. They will usually be praised or rewarded by the local leadership for doing so, regardless of their personality and for this reason, they being active. Or they may view it as a great place to find clients for work or dates etc. and just fake a great love of the church to get what they want. They can be huge busybodies, relishing in ward gossip etc. usually the instigators of it.

Heard somewhere that "mormon church is ideal place for sociopaths and psychopaths to hide out due to its power structures". It's easy for manipulative people, devoid of empathy to hide out in.

Narcissism is the diagnosis of the day... so I tend to side-eye it. Why not diagnosis the church with borderline personality disorder, passive-agressive, or depressive disorders?

Dark Triad is my favorite diagnosis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad

Oh wait, just label it crazy. There. Done.

You have to rule out Borderline for the cult because it doesn't self-harm and has a strong sense of group identity and importance. I don't see Rusty tossing handfuls of cash out the window while drunk tweeting at 3 a.m. about how he hates himself and he's going to keep cutting until you come over and help him discover who he really is. As a hive mind, the organization is highly self-preservative, and not very exhibitionist anymore, so I vote no on BPD.

Borderline types suffer a lot internally. I find the cultists do whatever mental gymnastics they can to avoid emotional suffering at all costs. The cult fits general Cluster B dramatic/erratic traits as an organization and sure, how can you get to $100 Bn without being Machiavellian? But it also has magical thinking and can be schizotypal and histrionic, so Clusters A and C are there, too.

In short, it's malignant and harmful. Narcissists and worse thrive inside the organization and their families often display severe dysfunction which leads to a toxic culture.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2019 05:27PM by ptbarnum.

You are absolutely right, relievedtolearn!

Narcissists believe they are better than everyone else. They believe they are right. They have no empathy. They are unable to love unconditionally. They use other people. They are controlling. They lie about who they are. They lie and manipulate others to get what they want. They want to rob others of their individuality, their confidence, their self-esteem. They put others down in order to build themselves up. When crossed, a Narcissist will start a smear campaign against whoever crosses them. A Narcissist believes he/she is "the center of the universe." There's more, and the Mormon cult acts on every behavior in the spectrum--including the sociopath and psychopath levels.

I am wondering if the Mormon cult really does teach its members to be Narcissistic. I know, as a teen and a young woman, certain traits were valued as being part of "the ideal Mormon woman." Beauty, affected submission, focus on self, manipulation to "get" the RM husband of their choice, putting others down, in order to win the prize. Mormon women are raised to be competitive, and winning means that others will be losers. Mormons are taught they are "special." They are elite, only Mormons can get to the CK and have forever families, etc. Only Mormons know "the truth." Mormons have delusions of grandeur.

Yet, as another poster pointed out, Mormons can at the same time be victims of the cult's narcissism. I believe that they live that dual role all their lives, especially the women, because I was one, and I lived it. I tried to emulate my self-important Narcissistic RS president Mormon Royalty mother, but was so traumatized by her constant criticism, name-calling, lack of love, manipulations, lies, threats, punishments, and tantrums, that I started wanting to be the opposite of her. The turn-about was complete by the time I had children of my own, thank goodness! Soon, I realized that I didn't want myself or my children involved with abusive Narcissists at all, let alone be bossed around by them, so we left the cult.

narcissism is a good label for the church. Just take the recent whistleblower story. Obviously a tax exempt organization that is hoarding money, playing the market in an unfair way, just to build wealth for the fun of it, should be paying taxes. Obviously a church that spends less than 1% of it's income on humanitarian efforts shouldn't be considered a good organization that cares about the poor. Obviously an organization that refuses to let it's members see the budget or have a vote in the budget shouldn't be considered a wise place to give money to.

But the corp doesn't see it that way in fact their response is that it's non of anyone's business. They are right to be secretive, the thinking has been done, and everyone is out to be mean to them, they are the persecuted ones, because we are so evil and stupid.