I have been watching YouTube flash mob videos of orchestras. There is always a conductor. Can an orchestra play well without the dude waving at them? Even TMTC has a conductor. Can any band or musical group work without a conductor or is it job security?

I know I have too much free time on my hand.

Orchestras sound different with different conductors.

Yes, the precise sound depends on the degree to which the conductors have imbibed cultural Marxism. It's a real threat to the classical canon.

Sure, Jordan.

Please stop leaving creepy & irrelevant replies to my posts. I don't know what you want, but stop it. You aren't my VT.

"Some people won't be happy until they've pushed you to the ground. What you have to do is have the courage to stand your ground and not give them the time of day. Hold on to your power and never give it away." - Donna Schoenrock

CZ has told you time and again that you are violating the rules by constantly changing your monikers and by incessantly injecting politics into non-political discussions. He has on those grounds banned at least a dozen of your pseudonyms. What is "creepy" is your insistence nevertheless on continuing to challenge him and the board rules.

And what is the point, ultimately, Jordan? Your serial pseudonyms cannot conceal what is an inimitable syntactical and polemical style. So who do you want to be? Canuckexmo? LogicalCanuckexmo? HWint? Gourd Vidal? Maria Muller? Kirklando? Is it unreasonable of others to find it childish when you have HWint applaud Jordan or Logical Canuckexmo second Hwint's posts, pretending that these are not the same person?

If you want to stop the whack-a-mole, stop being a mole.

LW, you're making my night. I worked and had a rough day, and now the kids are hyped as hell and not interested in settling down. I needed something fun to read. Thanks!

www.AnswerTheQuestionThatWasAsked.com

Maria Muller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Orchestras sound different with different
> conductors.

BYUboner can distinguish one conductor's interpretation from another. Kind of like wine cognoscenti, perhaps. Me, I enjoy great music but nuances elude me, I'm afraid. And I don't think I could tell the difference between Effete WrathChild 1937 and a bottle of Thunderbird.

That's a surprise.

I can't imagine having just one version of the Goldberg Variations--does one skip Gould's 1955 version? His 1981 reinterpretation? Angela Hewitt's performance?

And the Bach cantatas: I can't imagine not having the Herreweghe, Gardiner, and Suzuki as well as the related Webern work--each of which is better for a particular mood or exploration. The same is true of several of the Beethoven symphonies as well as his sonatas. And then Handel. . .

That's why Spotify and the other online systems don't work for classical music: they throw a single performance, maybe two, into the mix and you can't choose the version you want.

I'll sit with caffiend.

Most Beethoven symphonies, the warhorse sonatas, Choral Fantasy
Schubert: Trout Quintet, #5 and (emphatically!) #9. (Should have thrown that into my post on "Ninths." A very favorite.)
Lots of Tchaikovsky, #5 & #6 especially. (I'm an alpha-Romantic.) But not the ballets.
Brhams #1 & #2
Moart #40 & #41.

This will make you cringe: The Brandenbergs are background music to me. The Four Seasons, too.

Some Bruckner
Mahler #2, #6, #7.

Well, there's a start. Best not to get into a discussion with chorus or soloists--we'd really go far afield. I know the repertoire and love it, but to a certain extent, my ear is tin.

LW: You are among a chosen few on the board who know how I dramatically use music. Perhaps I can include Beth, soon. I'm on a final edit. Interested?

“The Four Seasons, too.”

I love Frankie Valli.

Webern? For real? I'd just as soon listen to my four-year-old daughter play the piano. She strikes notes so randomly that it's rather reminiscent of Webern's favored twelve-tone technique. My son, who's not much older, plucks out tunes and plays simple harmonies, but my daughter inherited her mother's ear for music - not quite tone-deaf, but not a whole lot better.

Not a big fan of dodecaphony? Nor in most cases am I.

But sometimes the requirements of the times--in this case the largely barren 20th century--combine to conceal real musical insight. When you get a chance, try this and see what you think.

http://www.audivivocem.org/rcc/disc.php?did=ecmns1774

I believe Webern brings out a lot of nuances in the Bach that are not usually evident. I would, in any case, love to learn what you think.

Dave The Atheist would know.

"Over 100 women near me looking for no-strings hook ups". Sounds legit to me.

What about semiconductors ?

Congratulations wondering!

Your query is the best one I've stumbled upon in the past 45 days.

Conductors are the smallest representations of God. In the universe's that are not conducted by deities of any type, we find that gravity wanes with time, water is useless and movements are taxed so highly that motion does not exist, except in the outer fringes, and even there, escapement rituals, schemes and methodologies are more rampant than human corruption is, on our planet.

The universe's that do have conductors produce wars, hardships and unceasing wasted prayers, in every language, including the 14,955 new tongues that were obtained through psychic robotic explorations, as of this writing.

I could go on an on, and will, but my post would be deleted, and my six remaining feelings still feel discomfort in the milieu of fingertip waste.

Look for my new book of mice recipes, coming out in March.

Screen Name Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Look for my new book of mice recipes, coming out
> in March.

I can hardly wait to find out, so I think I'll take a nap.

ask an electrician or a railway crew; your answer will be YES !

You only see the final performance with the musicians looking like they don't need the conductor because of all the work the conductor put into the rehearsal's--- honing the symphony, drawing out the best, so that the performance becomes greater than the sum of its parts. This is the conductors job. So by the time the curtain goes up, the performance seems so effortless that anyone could be waving the wand. Illusion.

Much of life is that way. When done right, it seems so simple.

Exactly.

there Should Be a good joke, song, or cliche here somewhere, honest...

Two conductors walk into a bar...

. . . bartender asks, "How did your symphonies go tonight?"

First conductor replies, "My orchestra is so bad they couldn't even follow me on twitter."

Second conductor says, "Oh yeah? My orchestra did so many things wrong I couldn't even make a Lizt."

Say two Hail Marys, a Novena and six Heel Josephs in gratitude for your day job...

It was that bad, huh?

Of course TMTC has a conductor. If you attend a Mormon P.H. or R.S. meeting with only two people and one person plays the piano, the other will conduct the singing even though there is no one else to conduct.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2019 06:12PM by scmd1.

Aha! So you're saying if it's just you and the conductor, ta heck with the conductor!!

I KNEW concert pianists were maniacs!!!

You're right, EOD. To he!! with the conductors, for congregational singing, anyway. They have function for legitimate choirs and for orchestras.

Where group singing is involved, no one pays much attention to them anyway except occasionally to make fun of them, especially if they (the conductors) are being overly inventive with regard to beat patterns or overly dramatic, period. Mainline Protestant churches almost never use conductors, and their congregational singing is no worse than anyone else's. On the extremely unlikely chance that the conductor does actually have a better idea than the pianist or organist as to tempo, how long to hold out fermatas (or fermatae if you're a purist), or anything else, it still doesn't matter, because might makes right in this instance. Unless the conductor has an incredibly powerful voice, the instrumentalist will win the battle of tempos/pauses/any-other-reason-to-deviate pretty much every time.

Pianists are a breed unto themselves.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2019 09:45PM by scmd1.

I've been employed as a director of music at Methodist, Presbyterian, Episcopal, Lutheran (ELCA), and (currently) Catholic churches. No mainstream Christian churches use conductors for congregational singing. If you have a competent organist/pianist, a conductor is absolutely unnecessary--which is one reason why Mormons have to have conductors (the other being that they have to invent jobs so everyone can feel needed).

Yep.

AHH is one Y'all
conductors are the interpretors

Some years back, I was recording Beethoven's Choral Symphony with the BSO.* After finishing the first part of the 4th Movement, we took a break while the soloists and chorus came in. Somebody turned the airconditioning up high, and the sheet music started blowing all over the place. People were jumping and grabbing it, knocking over music stands, tripping over and ripping out audio cables--what a mess!

It took quite a while to get everything put back together. The techs got the wires fixed and the librarians wrapped the sheet music down with elastics. During the break, a few men in the chorus went up Massachuetts Avenue to Bill's Bar and got drunk. We finally located the truants and resumed the 4th Movement.

When the chorus was about to come in, I noticed a couple of the drunks had fallen asleep! It was only now that I realized what a momentous situation we had: Here I was, on the mound in the bottom of the Ninth with the bases loaded, the score tied and two out.

*That's the Boston Symphony Orchestra, to you Intermountain philistines.

Ha! You forgot to ID the Symphony! Although only one of Beethoven's symphonies calls for a choir.

But the intermountain Philistines are wondering where the "Ninth" came from in the punch line!




PS: If I would cut my bangs, we'd be twins.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2019 07:23PM by elderolddog.

I beg to differ. There is only one "Ninth." That word is self-explanatory, sort of like "God."

Do you really need to say, "the Jewish God told Abraham to kill his son" or "the Methodist God wants you not to covet your neighbor's ass?"

The "Ninth," or perhaps "the glorious Ninth" as per Alex in A Clockwork Orange, but never "Beethoven's Ninth."

Bruckner's Ninth? Mahler's?

Bruckner's Ninth is "Bruckner's Ninth." Mahler's is "Mahler's Ninth." Beethoven's Ninth is "the Ninth."

And by "Beethoven," I mean "Ludwig van Beethoven." Not one of those other Beethovens with whom he is frequently confused.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2019 11:31PM by Lot's Wife.

Any other team designated as "Sox" must be qualified by either city or color of said sox.

‘Tis true.

I think your resemblance is more to the Lord High (literary) Executioner. Here he is with his entourage of valiant Young Striplings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivY2HK777Zg

Yannick saved Philly. No doubt about it.

During his first year as music director, he paired Bach's Fifth Brandenburg Concerto with Mahler's Symphony No. 6. It was so amazing, I wanted to rob a bank and donate to the symphony.

Blew my hair back.

As a Philadelphia resident, and a professional musician, I disagree. Sawallisch was the very best conductor, followed closely by Muti. WS was, unfortunately, not a 'media star' type or 'charismatic', so to the extent that matters, he's not up to the "standard" of the present individual.
Maybe the incumbent did "save" the orchestra, but if it was by playing FLY EAGLES FLY and things like that, such 'saving' was by non-musical means...

(Laughing at the Fly Eagles Fly reference and not at you.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2019 10:30PM by Beth.

When it comes to Mahler, his 2nd Sym 'Resurrection' thrills me;

Rachmininoff's 2nd, 3rd, Piano concertos

It was Massachusetts-born Leonard Bernstein who is responsible for the (ahem!) *resurrection* of Gustav Mahler into the popular concert repertoire. Only problem is he did it with the New York Philharmonic. Oh, well....

ETA: So, yeah - I think conductors are necessary not just to direct the orchestra but to help the orchestra continue.

Lenny used to have a TV show for kids. I love that man.

When I think of him, I think of https://youtu.be/J12zprD7V1k



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2019 09:12PM by Beth.

I have the Mahler symphony set on DGG, I wouldn't trade it for Anything.

I haven't seen it listed lately either new or used, it's apparently Very Rare...

I've been to several high school band/orchestras performances where the conductor would start the selection and then stand off to the side and let the students perform on their own. It sounds very professional to me.

I've never had an ear for jazz, but to me they are just playing a bunch of notes that wouldn't matter if there was a conductor or not.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2019 12:04AM by tumwater.

tumwater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...where the conductor would start the
> selection and then stand off to the side and let
> the students perform on their own.

During fundraising auctions for the BSO you can bid on conducting the Boston Pops. I believe one selection is available: The Stars & Stripes Forever. An orangutan could stand at the podium and wave his arms around, and the Pops would present Sousa *perfectly!*

as a matter of Fact, I believe an orangutan HAS DONE IT!

and, thanks for reminding us of the distinction / difference between the BSO & the Boston Pops!!

Thanks all for the input. I guess conductors are necessary even if it is a monkey.

I already knew Mormons needed conductors to tell them what to do because they are groomed to not think for themselves.

Semiconductors, I am not sure about those but train conductors are necessary.

You can work without a conductor, but it's a whole lot harder to stay together that way. Chamber groups often don't have conductors, but they're small; there are so many moving parts in large groups that it's hard for everyone to be able to rely on each other all the time. I think with flash mobs, conductors are especially important, as you have to rely on someone to queue you in to start playing at different points in the song.

Fun fact: sometimes the conductors also play instruments. In the classical era, it was extremely common for conductors to lead the orchestra from the piano, while they played it. I imagine there were lots of head motions involved. Since then, though, orchestras have gotten way bigger and, therefore, rely on conductors on the podium to keep everyone on the same page.

And like other posters have said, the conductor is the interpreter. They decide how much you speed up and slow down, your volume, your style. They facilitate rehearsals and decide what to focus on. They are vitally important for musicians.

Conductors in sacrament meeting though? We could probably do without them. Rarely do they know what they're doing, and even more rarely to people look to them for guidance, as the singing is not nearly as strict as formal choral singing.

Chamber music: watch the violinist (1st if there are two). He is usually the leader, and you'll see him signal with eye and head motions, occasionally a body leaning in or something. Chamber groups are usually very close-knit ensembles, and know each other (and their music) very well.

Even today, many conductors or band leaders play an instrument, and lead from the podium (i.e. with his violin) or from the keyboard. Not unusual at all. Benny Goodman (clarinet) and Tommy Dorsey (trombone) often played their instruments while conducting.

In Protestant churches, a choir director may lead the congregation, in that she's conducting the choir also. Or the pastor may just get things started. My pastor motions to the pianists so they're together, after that we're pretty much all set.

You're right, chamber music does have a leader. I was talking about a conductor as a separate entity. And yes, while some conductors do play from the podium, it is not as common as it once was. It's really awesome when they can do it though!

> They decide how much you
> speed up and slow down


I learned pretty quickly, on YouTube, that if a conductor doesn't bring Beethoven's 5th in in under 31 minutes, I won't listen to it. I want to see those bassists 'sawing' like mad there in the 3rd movement!

I always figured that the bassists would get all giddy when the 5th was put on the program.

What's the difference in a bull and an orchestra?

The bull has the horns in the front and the @$$#0£€ in the back.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2019 02:33AM by siobhan.

They are important.