Ted Callister says in this week’s Church News: “In truth, this Church ruins its members for any other church, because, like this missionary, they know too much. If people leave this Church, they will usually end up traveling down one of two paths — either they will become a church unto themselves (because they will never find another church that has more truth than they already have) or they will head down the road of agnosticism. Recognizing this, I asked the missionary, “Are you willing to give up all this doctrine you know to be true, to throw it all away, because you have a few questions you can’t answer.”“
Hate to break it to him but I have been a faithful member of another Christian Church for over a decade. I found that all of these truths Callister arrogantly attributes to the LDS Church are simply the plagiarized heresy of a 19th century shyster.
I found another church, too. After 40 years of being a Mormon, I found something better. Since this isn't a religious forum, I won't mention the denomination. But I'm much happier. For many of us, there IS spiritual life after Mormonism.
You know the drill. The money demand is always closely after the sermon in some form. Even in A.A. they ask for money. Same drill anywhere you go. Just give yourself a sermon into the mirror and hand yourself money. You will get less poor i promise.
Besides, most people who leave their religions were not even Mormon and likely know very little about it. Many left because they "knew too much" or simply are no longer happy using faith as a guide for knowledge. Mormonism is just easier to deconstruct because it is so young. Mormonism is not unique when it comes to religion.
But others have made the point well above. Plenty of exMormons are happy in other religions. Their reasons generally are personal and vary.
messygoop nails it. They are just trying to keep people from leaving.
Many become Unitarians. They shake off the Mormon exceptionalism to end up in a religion that accepts everybody. I had to be talked into Unitarianism, but once there, I really found it enjoyable. It is 180 degrees from Mormonism.
Old Al Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Ted Callister says in this week’s Church News: > “In truth, this Church ruins its members for any > other church, because, like this missionary, they > know too much. If people leave this Church, they > will usually end up traveling down one of two > paths — either they will become a church unto > themselves (because they will never find another > church that has more truth than they already have) > or they will head down the road of agnosticism. > Recognizing this, I asked the missionary, “Are > you willing to give up all this doctrine you know > to be true, to throw it all away, because you have > a few questions you can’t answer.”“
Closed-circuit to Tad Callister: What is wrong with the path towards agnosticism and atheism. It seems to me (as a former Roman Catholic) that this path, while not always emotionally satisfying, will finally lead people to question the wisdom of those who have no knowledge on a subject (say, evolution and the creation of humans) making claims they really know nothing about.
Just because you believe something to be true doesn't make it true It just means that you believe it to be true.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2019 07:16PM by blindguy.
I left Mormonism in 1998 and after a decade of soul searching, praying and reading the bible I became a follower of Jesus - a Christian. I attend a church regularly and have found a peace that I never knew before. All my questions have been answered. I don't follow a long list of man-made rules. I follow Jesus. It's not complicated. Mormons complicate everything. It's actually harder to be a Christian - you aren't handed rules. You have to think for yourself. And everyday I fall short, I am so thankful for grace. That's all it takes to live eternally, not a temple recommend.
amen. you found the truth. tho to take the bible literally means if your not totally surrended to jesus and willing to give up everything,your wealth, and even family if needs be or called apon, jesus will say i never knew you depart from me, and thrust good people down to the lake of fire. Now thats cruel, that is why i became a mormon in the first place because i liked the idea of 3 heavens even for the wicked the lowest one no hell as such burning fires or torchure of eternity... Grace is the true messege i believe but i only follow the foot prints of the bible otherwise the hell doctrine would mess my head up and cause me to live in fear and fear is the opposite to faith... all the best.....cheers John australia.
1) He is a general authority. Meaning he has had the second anointing. He's had his feet washed by an apostle and had all his sins wiped away for good (moromon doctrine). He's been anointed to be in a Godhood in the afterlife.
2) He is paid by TSCC. He has signed a non-disclosure agreement. He is duty-bound to promote TSCC or be released from his paid position and loose till-end-of-life benefits.
3) If he is not made an apostle, he will be turned out to pasture when he hits 70 years of age and will receive a church pension for the rest of his life.
Conclusion: He must promote TSCC at all costs for his survival financially and for his pension and health care expenses paid by the tithe payers, or the 100 Billion dollar stash fund.
After finding out I was so thoroughly duped, I was skeptical of any other brand.
I studied cultural anthropology in university and found that every culture comes up with myths to explain the explainable. It's a flaw us humans have.
Some believe the spirit of the forest, or cave. Others some other powerful magical being. But all have something. I decided that it is just human weakness. They all think that theirs is the powerful all knowing thing able to grant favors. But they all can't be right. Though they all are just as sure that they are.
As a mormon, I thought ours was the exception, and all others are wrong. Once ours was wrong, there was nothing left but more magic just like the spirit of the cave.
So yes, leaving mormonism sent me down the road to agnostic life.
I did attend a nondenominational church with my ex wife a few times. I spent the time whispering in her ear things like, "That's B.S., what about the poor children starving with malnutrition?" As a response to things like if you just believe in Jesus he will take care of all your needs etc.
I don't think I could do any church without my B.S. meter always going off.
I wonder how Ted Callister would feel about it if the Mormon leadership lost control of the members. This might happen if a large number of members decided that the church has more than enough money and investments to operate solely off of the interest, and those members either stopped or sharply reduced their tithing. Perhaps the membership would simultaneously lose interest in the temple -- they might think, have a nice wedding outside of the temple, be sealed later, and be done with it. Why keep going again and again? They might also come to the conclusion that missions are optional, and it is not necessary nor desirable for large numbers of young people to go.
What if the membership took control of *their* church? How would he feel about it then?
in another religion. Hell, I just didn't want to sit through any long boring meetings of any kind. I didn't want some man telling me what to think and feel and who to marry and where. OR who I could have sex with and that I can't be an adulteress.
I live as I see fit. I live true to myself. I don't need someone telling me how to live. Like my nephew said, "I've served my sentence." Religion to me is like being in prison.
Pretty sure i won't step foot in a church again. Preach followed by asking for money everytime. We know the drill. Its all about getting that money out of your pocket and into theirs. Oh well. Better to live with no superior over you in the end.
I attended a series of prospective member meetings at another church with a friend. Everything seemed erriely similar to Mormonism (including a charismatic founder) when it came to culture. The one exception was in their financials. They handed out the last year's financial statements that listed and discussed everything relevant, including the salaries of their preachers. They went over everything with us, line by line, to give us all a full disclosure of everything financially related to their church. This was done as a part of what they teach their perspective members. So although I didn't join, I respect them. At the same time I thought to myself "I've been taken-in by the best of the cults. These guys are relative amateurs".
the MORmON cult was counting on it !! when a person looks at how damn weird and goofy and screwed up that MORmONS really are, who would want them ......oh that's right, there is that money thing that works so well with them.
If there were a "Church of the Modern Evidence of Higher Intelligence and Life After Death" I would be thrilled to join it. That's the direction I went after leaving the LDS church. But no such institution exists, at least not in the flyover country where I live. So I have to study the aforementioned Evidence and make my own way.
I was stupid back in the day. Like REALLY stupid. I thought just invite the mormon to a decent and fun church and it will all work out.
The mormon would come to events where there was dinner and pile up an embarrassing amount of already limited food on his plate completely unconcerned with those behind him in line. He beat me almost to death and continued to come to church trying to convince other people that he was the real victim. He harassed my daughter and granddaughter to the point they no longer want to attend. He borrowed a car from our deaconess and returned it with expensive body damage. He moved in on an elderly female African American to the point she almost had to have her sons get rid of him but once he stole the jewelry her mother left her he moved on. His time at the church ended up with him being jailed for indecent exposure involving a 90 year old choir member. The only way I can figure he was released from jail is Mommy and Idiot Step Daddy bailed him out again, just as they did when he almost killed me. Can't have the mormons looking bad with family members in jail...
This person is a regular poster on RfM currently often changing his screen name.
Be very careful about who you befriend online. Many of you have commented on his posts and I have seen him lately trying to solicit home addresses from posters so he can 'send a gift'. The gift will be this fool knocking on your door looking for his next opportunity to mooch.
Am I "ruined" for any other Church? Probably. I would expect another congregation to operate much like a local LDS ward. Most other churches wouldn't meet that standard.
First, members in other churches are too passive. They sit and watch religion, but don't really participate. Their church services are like theater - even with applause.
When I told a friend that I baptized my own children, I think it was a act she wanted her husband to do. Their church wouldn't ordain anybody except after years of study.
Second, priestcraft is wrong. A church must be run by volunteers. As soon as your minister is paid to preach, his or her livelihood depends on keeping religion inoffensive. Funds must go to operating the church - not enriching a preacher/manager.
Because other churches aren't governed under these principles, I could be "ruined" for their membership.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2020 11:19AM by idleswell.
"Priestcraft" is wrong? And having a rank amateur offering counseling is better?
As for the inoffensive part, I'll grant you that one. Mormonism is pretty good at being offensive. Most people don't view that as a plus, however.
Members of other churches don't really participate? You've obviously never really been, then. At my church, most of the sermons are done by the minister, though not all. Members do some of them. There are plenty of other ways to participate, however. BTW, I've never seen anyone spend the entire service glued to their phone. Or even part of a service. I hear that happens all the time at LDS services. Mormon services are, for the most part, spectacularly repetitive and boring.
And we have coffee and conversation for an hour or so after service. And no church service through the summer. We do a community lecture series instead.
And the choir is kick-ass. They even get applause. Because kick-ass.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2020 05:57PM by Brother Of Jerry.
After leaving the church I went several years without attending another church . When my young teenage grandson came to live with us, he had always attended a Methodist Church and we started attending a small laid back Methodist Church with a female pastor about a mile from our house . To my surprise I enjoy going to it. No dress code it’s pretty much come as you are. They are open gays who attend , young folks , older folks and all are very friendly and non judgmental.
Why not tell it like it is: Mormon church ruined me for any other CULT! To compare the Mormon cult to a church is like comparing apples and, well, "turds" is a good word to use.
This is propaganda: "they will never find another church that has more truth than they already have". Give me a break.
Mormons have their own definition of what "membership" in their church (cult) entails. To them, it means being a slave, in blind obedience, and submissively bowing down to fake "authority", joining in with group hatred and prejudices, giving up some of your human rights (especially if you're a female), forsaking all others, trying to become like the perfect model of Christ, attending every Sunday, sick or well, dressing right, monitoring and judging the behavior of others in the flock, and recruiting new members. Your main purpose is to PAY THEM MONEY. The Mormons dig into your private business, and tell the members almost the exact AMOUNT of money to pay, then they ask for more on top of that. We all know what that was like.
None of that was "Christian." I believe in the lessons of the Bible, regardless if the stories are legends or actual histories. We follow Christ, in that we try to be loving and kind, focus on our families, do helpful charity work, try to be good citizens, obey the laws of the land, etc. We go to a Christmas Eve candlelight service every year. We go to another Christian church on Easter morning, with friends, before our combined family Easter egg hunt. We usually go to church at Thanksgiving time, when we visit our old home state. No one punishes us, when we don't go. We aren't chained up with commitments and obligations to be there to teach for free or play the organ for free. We donate whatever we see fit, and can afford, on the days we attend, but no one comes knocking on our door, and no one complains that we should give more, and no one threatens to lock us out, if they think we haven't paid enough. It's perfectly fine to do volunteer work in other organizations. We have REAL friends who are Christians, and when someone switches to another congregation, or even a different religeon, it does not effect the friendship. Normal people are much more polite and kind than the Mormons are, in our experience.
We have had lovely weddings and funerals in Christian chapels, and have happily paid for the use of the chapel and the organist. The bride and groom can say any vows they want, and the loved ones of the deceased can honor him/her with personal stories and loving remembrances, their favorite music, moments of silence, etc. The feeling in these services is entirely different than the feeling one gets in a Mormon service.
Christ, himself, had no church buildings or temples. I could never feel comfortable with all the emphasis that Mormons put on building. Oh well, it's to be expected, because it's a real estate holding company. It's the job of the members, to maintain the property investments, free of charge.
My most spiritual experiences have all been outside of a church building--alone--out in nature, usually, or in the seclusion of my room.
Love, soul, hope, and charity aren't part of Mormonism. Just because these can't be found in the Mormon cult, doesn't mean they can't be found in another church. Mormon propaganda, again.
Mormonism has actually made me prefer any other church (as long as it isn't a cult). I see other religions as being much more normal, compared to what my children and I went through as members of a very weird, hoax cult. The Mormon cult was actually abusive--the opposite of what Christ stood for.
Mother Who Knows just wrote one of the best summaries of finding religion, no religion or some spirituality after Mormonism that I have read. We are mostly immune from joining yet another cult, though some jump into the Watchtower or other abusive groups as that is what they were accustomed to experiencing.
Coincidentally, I had a jazz rehearsal on Thursday and afterwards everyone hung around just to socialize. One of the members of the group began discussing with me the need for friends and social contacts. He brought up the topic, not me. He said some folks find church to be a source for them. He found music and playing in groups to be his spirituality and source of friendships. When a piece is played extremely well, it is a bit of a high. It feels good and everyone is in an upbeat mood and want the moment to linger. That is how our Thursday practice went. It was better than any Mormon meeting I had ever attended if I were to measure against it. Perhaps music is not spirituality, though it stimulates feelings of well being and kindness. We all need to find things that can bring us contentment.
If religion dropped the irrational claims and focused on ceremony, community and celebration, I think it would be a good thing.
But thinking about this, we want a group of like-minded people. The way people tend to find that group is by using the myth and selecting people who cherry pick the same way they feel comfortable. The down side of this is that it creates divisiveness (us vs them). Unfortunately this comes with being human.
It's obvious there are big congregations of "Christians" who Jesus would not recognize as followers AT ALL. But they share the feelings as discussed above for contentment.
It's just a shame that so many negative things accompany religion (ridiculous claims, regressive lock step thinking, divisiveness, threats, abuse of trust, etc.).
I hope we will continue to find other sources to find spirituality and community and that religion will continue to adapt to rid itself of the harmful dogma they perpetuate.