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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 19, 2020 03:24PM

I'm pretty sure that most of knew that 'second-guessing' ghawd within a church setting was not something sane people did! ...be like shouting out in Chicago's United Center after MJ just thrilled the crowd with a lay-up, "Oh, that was dumb! I wouldn't have done it that way!" How's that going to go over with the faithful?

Reading the comments, all the exmos are high-fiving and whooping it up. One commentator offered up his opinion that Kirby is a weakling, for not seeing through the logic he brings to this issue and quitting the church. ...As his wife, whom he met when she was a missionary in his mission, did early in their marriage.

I, too, share in this quandary. How the fùüúûck does he figure it out in his brain to be a church-attending mormon? If the answer has anything to do with holding on to his readers, his audience, I will be deeply disappointed.

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Posted by: laperla not logged in ( )
Date: January 20, 2020 07:38PM

Great comment:

This is like arguing over the veracity of The Cat in the Hat.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 20, 2020 07:39PM

Not really.

The Cat in the Hat is well written.

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Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: January 21, 2020 01:04PM

'And it came to pass that the Lord Commanded the Cat in the Hat to slay Thing 1, and the Cat did bind Thing 1 upon an altar, and the Fish did say "That is not a good thing to do, even if the Lord commanded you to!", and an angel of Seuss did appear to the Cat, and said "Yea, you have shown faith in the Lord, so put down that sword!" And it came to pass that when Mother came home, she found all were happy, including Thing 1 and Thing 2. Now I wouldn't kill 'cause a voice told me to, I wouldn't do it, no way, but would you?'

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 21, 2020 01:27PM

Okay, C 'n B, now write it in the form of a chiasmus and the project will be perfect!

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: January 21, 2020 12:46AM

This repugnant story is THE primary justification for Mormons' penchant for lying for the Lard. If you can rationalize this behavior, you can rationalize anything.

Even in a war, Nephi's actions would be at least two capital war crimes, not to mention showing the ethics of a sewer rat.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 21, 2020 12:53AM

YES.

The Book of Mormon begins with the proposition that murder is okay if committed in the name of religion. Conventional morality is thus turned on its head.

What is truly surprising is that people don't get hung up on that. For some reason they refrain from the obvious reaction--throwing the book out--and continue reading, inoculated, as it were, against further shocks.

Start with the big lie. People will balk against the little one, Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf, but not against one so "colossal" that people reckon no one could make up something so outrageous. The principle remains as demonstrably true today as when Joseph Smith tried it 200 years ago.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2020 12:54AM by Lot's Wife.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: January 21, 2020 10:04AM

Exactly. Joe was savvy enough to up the game. Where are all the followers today of all the ones who only had minor visitations from angels? Pfft.

"Child's play," said Joseph as he added God and Jesus to the mix floating in the air flesh to the wind, and for good measure angels with flaming swords and a salamander or two. Go big or go home!

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Posted by: GregS ( )
Date: January 21, 2020 08:14AM

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Though, as Mr. Kirby has demonstrated, drinking the water is no guarantee the horse won't just spit it out.

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Posted by: kathleen ( )
Date: January 21, 2020 12:02PM

“You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.”

Although, you can drown him.

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Posted by: GregS ( )
Date: January 21, 2020 12:40PM

The temptation would be there, though Kirby Cop would probably shoot us for attempting it.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: January 21, 2020 10:07AM

Kirby reminds me of all those who gave up being hippies and joined the establishment and when questioned on their integrity said they were just working from the inside now.

Inside out or not, I like what he does.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: January 21, 2020 12:12PM

Par for the Kirby Course.

He follows living prophets who don't apologize, endorse their own authority over secular authority, and have no qualms with their abusive and morally corrupt ways of dealing with their past and present.

Kirby Cop would shoot their holy prophets if he came across them in an alley doing "The Lord's" work. He probably would have drug Hinckley in front of Mark H. to testify. But he is good at looking the other way when it suits him and pointing out how he just tells it as he sees it when it makes him "cool."

Like an adolescent boy with a good command of the language and a captives (of their leaders) audience.

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Posted by: Shinehah ( )
Date: January 21, 2020 12:19PM

True believers who don't see a problem with Nephi slaying Laban really should read "Under the Banner of Heaven"

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: January 21, 2020 12:32PM

Kirby gets paid to look the other way and normalize the atrocious.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: January 21, 2020 01:18PM

Normalizing the atrocious. I do believe you are right whether Kirby realizes that is what he is doing or not.

You can indeed talk something to death. Is the goal just to claim there are no more secrets as they air their dirty laundry?

I have long seen with Mormon leaders the claim that they gave "looked" at something or "examined" something and by doing that infer that he problem is taken care leaving the assumption that the problem is no problem at all of even though no conclusion or action resulted. That strategy works. "Oh, that? Thats' ancient history."

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: January 21, 2020 01:26PM

Um, he did the exact opposite of that in this column. In fact, most of his columns would make a certain type of TBM either uncomfortable, or forced to consider that their typical attitudes land far wide of good Christian (or even simple humane) behavior.

So what is your real complaint? This one seems not just fabricated, but the opposite of reality. I'm puzzled at the hostility from you and Elder Berry. Because he has done or not done something you disagree with, you're willing to completely discount everything else? That's what it sounds like.

Personally, I think a collection of fifty of his columns would make a far more effective, useful, and entertaining Priesthood/RS lesson manual than the dreck LDS Inc publishes - quotes of GAs quoting other GAs. Gag.

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: January 21, 2020 04:41PM

In the words of Done and Done:

"I have long seen with Mormon leaders the claim that they gave "looked" at something or "examined" something and by doing that infer that he problem is taken care leaving the assumption that the problem is no problem at all of even though no conclusion or action resulted. That strategy works. "Oh, that? Thats' ancient history."

This is the trick they've been employing since the beginning when facing the "problem" areas. And that's why Kirby is allowed to do what he does. So long as he remains on the inside, he's allowed to act as the court jester. And in doing so, they get to take the stance that's it's no real big deal -- it's not important to address other than to say it's bothersome.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2020 04:43PM by Devoted Exmo.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: January 21, 2020 04:50PM

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm
> puzzled at the hostility from you and Elder Berry.

Maybe these will help.

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/search.php?2,search=kirby,author=Elder+Berry,page=1,match_type=ALL,match_dates=0,match_forum=ALL,match_threads=0

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2189841,2192221#msg-2192221

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Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: January 21, 2020 01:07PM

It would have been much easier if Joseph Smith had made Hitler the bad guy--who *wouldn't* have cut his head if they had the chance?

And the apologists could have easily explained the 2,000 year anachronism.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: January 21, 2020 01:33PM

but but... Nelson SMILED so nicely when my DD & family posed with him in Seattle!


Empty suits do not make gentlemen.
Fake smiles express no kindness.
Cheesy stories aren't wisdom.
And, power is no substitute for class and competence

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