Is it possible to have Mormons stop shunning me? Is there something I can do?

I mean, there has been a growing chasm between me and my Mormon daughter, her TBM husband, and their children. Their disrespect of me has been fueled by my daughter's TBM in-laws, who are among the Mormon neighbors who have been shunning me, ever since I resigned 10 years ago. I left quietly. I've always lived the best life I could. I have the same family-oriented, integrity-based lifestyle and values, and still believe in God and Christ, but I never joined another church. I have forever been marginalized as a divorced single working mom, even when I took precious time to be the ward organist and a Sunday school teacher, and paid tithing out of my income which was our family's sole financial support. I left the church, with my children, when the leaders physically abused my children. Soon I found out it was a hoax, though my young children had known it all along! Because of scary Mormon threats, we left very quietly. One daughter returned to the Mormon singles ward for social reasons only, with her TBM cousins, and ended up falling in love and marrying a TBM RM in our neighborhood. One of the first things he said to me, after their temple marriage was, "If you don't mind, I'd like to call you "Forestpal" instead of Mom."

I have been able to appreciate the good in my daughter's Mormon in-laws. My daughter's husband is a good man. My grandchildren have a stable home with loving parents, and are doing well. The Mormon in-laws offer them a lot of companionship and fun, with their many children and other grandchildren. I have never had any reason to criticize these people (just their cult). I don't interfere with their parenting, their marriage, or their decisions. I'm not in competition with them. Early on, my daughter made it clear that religion was a forbidden subject for me to talk about with her, my grandchildren, or any of her other family (not that I ever did, not even once). They don't force me to go to the children's church talks and performances and baptisms, because they don't want me there. I am treated like a pariah, which is worse than the usual Mormon shunning. They operate behind my back which makes me feel like I'm paranoid. I'm an apostate to be tolerated. This is how I feel about the Mormon cult—it's something I'm trying to tolerate.

I do have an otherwise happy life, and good relationships with my ex-Mormon children and their non-Mormon wives and my non-Mormon grandchildren. I have good non-and ex-Mormon friends and work colleagues. I enjoy my career, and have a lot of hobbies. I'm can "emotionaly independent," if I have to be.

The worst part is, that my daughter and her new family accuse me of not believing in God or Christ, and of following Satan, instead. It is very painful to be accused and misunderstood. Because I can't discuss religion, I can't defend myself.

The Mormon in-laws are people who llike to gossip about people. They gossip about their other children's in-laws, more than about me. It is brutal! Here are their objections to me:

--I'm an apostate (follower of Satan)
--I don't go to any church
--I don't have a husband
--I'm deluded to think I can break out of the mold and get along without a man
--I've been a working mother
--They think the divorce was my fault (not)
--I'm a nobody with no Mormon friends (shunned)
--I have white hair
--I wear glasses
--I'm not a jogger
--I used to dance, and dancing is wicked (they stopped my granddaughters' dance lessons)
--I'm too selfish to play and teach the organ for the ward, when they need an organist so badly.
--I'm too "intellectual"
—I'm liberal
—I'm for women's rights
--I'm quiet. (I ramble away only on RFM!)
--I talk to the grandchildren about evolution and the universe. (They're afraid I might reveal the Truth.)
--My other children and grandchildren are all non-and ex-Mormons.
--I'm a bad influence on the grandchildren, because I have too much fun on Sundays
--We laugh too much—yes—that's a complaint.

My grandchildren see how their Mormon grandparents, their Mormon uncles and aunts, and their father treat me, and they think this is how they should behave towards me, also. They are learning snobbery and entitlement from the Mormons. I'm slowly disappearing from that family, being swallowed up by the controlling Mormons, who dominate my grandchildrens' time and their lives.

Do I have any value in their lives? Does love matter? Is reading and music and dance and culture important to Mormons? Maybe not. I love playing games with them, and going to all their sports games and school performances. I hang their artwork all over my walls. I know that I'm the only adult that will have a good conversation with those kids, and they seem to blossom with the attention and eye-contact, and with putting their ideas into words. They like encouragement and support, and someone to listen to them, and to understand. Mormons don't like unconditional love like that. They don't like that I don't discipline the grandchildren very much. They don't need very much disciplining.

Maybe wanting to stay close to them is selfish, if I'm of so little value to them, or a bad influence.

Still—I want them to think well of me, to be proud of me, to respect me, even if they can't love me.

I'm considering going down that list of "objections" and correcting my faults, one by one (except for marriage and joining the cult). Would this help? Well…I can't change my past, or maybe I can re-write history and deny everything, like the Mormon church does. I can change my appearance, join a church, not have fun on Sunday, spend less time "influencing" the grandchildren, not laugh so much, and be someone else other than myself. Maybe I could just die and leave them an inheritance.

How do I get these Mormons to even accept me as a person in their life? I don't expect friendship, or anything, just common civility.

Please, I would love to know your ex-Mormon experiences with Mormon children and Mormon grandchildren! How do you keep your relationships healthy? What do they love about you? How do you mend the widening cracks that Mormonism continually creates between you and your loved ones?

Have you ever resurrected a dead friendship with a Mormon who has previously shunned you? Has a Mormon ever forgiven you for being an apostate?

Nope. It's not possible. It's perfectly OK if imbeciles shun you. They see something in you they can't achieve--a mind of their own.

EOD said something to the effect that RfMers are the finest bunch around. And we adore you !

Oh thank you, Kathleen! I needed that. The harder I try, the more I feel like a failure.

If the desired outcome is not possible, maybe I need to stop stressing about Mormons who don’t like me.

LOL—it is refreshing to have someone call them “imbeciles”.

“I'm considering going down that list of "objections" and correcting my faults, one by one (except for marriage and joining the cult). Would this help? Well…I can't change my past, or maybe I can re-write history and deny everything, like the Mormon church does. I can change my appearance, join a church, not have fun on Sunday, spend less time "influencing" the grandchildren, not laugh so much, and be someone else other than myself. Maybe I could just die and leave them an inheritance.”

Maybe you’re looking for validation. You’re not imagining things. This is what Mormons are like in real life, even if from your perspective it makes no sense. Their lives are a game of Simon Says. Simon says to not associate with you, so they don’t. It’s that simple. That kind of interpersonal decision is not theirs to make. They’ve outsourced it.

They are supposed to dislike you or see you as lesser, so they build a narrative to support it. Since you have the moral high ground, the narrative can’t have any basis in reality. More likely is that it’s a projection of their own shadow realities. It’s not you, it’s them. Stop second guessing yourself. You are the one who loves God, loves Christ. You live it. You know who loves you, you’re just lonely. To everything there is a season. May this season end soon. And you live a good while longer. There aren’t enough good people in the world.

It’s a shame your grandkids are being trained to split the world into less-thans and others when we are all one. So sad, but that’s on their mothers. Mothers shrink or grow their children’s worlds.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2020 04:25AM by babyloncansuckit.

Luckily, she married a really nice guy who thinks I'm great and I am well acquainted with his family as we've lived 3 blocks from each other for over 30 years. They aren't your typical TBM jerks. They love me probably more than my daughter does, including her husband. She dumped him some 7 years or so ago and I was NOT pleased, and he started to come to talk to me, and we are great friends.

Do I feel like she spends more time with the larger mormon family. I know she does. She goes to the temple with them and they have family gettogethers for holidays, etc. When you now have 3 sisters and a brother and their spouses where all you've ever had was 1 brother, and there are a bunch of grandkids, too, I'd expect them to be doing a lot with his family, but it still gets to me. What I have to tell myself is "she's taken care of now, she'll be okay." I had to take care of her myself long enough. His mother worries about her as much as I do. When she does something like walks home in the dark, there are 3 of us checking on her.

He and his family treat us all well even if we are heathens, even if her dad is gay.

I have to admit that even though I don't want her to go to Alaska to work, they won't be always doing things with his family. His mother will not go to Alaska. She doesn't travel. I will be. I worry about how it will be if they have kids, but she does come to me when she NEEDS someone and I will be that one if she has kids and I know it.

The thing about it is, and it is sad that it is this way, they will regret it when they lose you. We only have one chance. I regret not appreciating my mom enough while I had her here. I know my daughter will take it really hard when she loses me.

For now, I just want her to be happy. She married a good man, a man who will also watch out for her twin brother so that he isn't alone if he chooses to never marry again. For now, I'm finally just thrilled that she has good in-laws and that she married into such a great family. I can't say enough good about her in-laws. They aren't your typical TBM mormons. I really lucked out.

Your post cheered me up, cl2. It also helped me put things in perspective.

That's right--your daughter married a Mormon in your neighborhood, too. I'm glad this has worked out for you! You are very nice, and friendly, and genuine, so you deserve some of the credit, that they like you so much.

My daughter's Mormon MIL has an image of Mormon perfetion that no one can live up to. My SIL is controlling, but we love him. My daughter gets bouts of depression, and has been taking prozac for several years, and I try very hard to keep her spirits up. She had two miscarriages, which made her very sad. Yes, like you said, she does come to me when she NEEDS someone. I stayed at their house and helped out for the first week or so, for the birth of each of her babies--all healthy! Those were wonderful experiences I will never forget! My mother did the same for me. I foresee you doing that in the future, for your daughter!

I will see if I can develop a more positive attitude about how much time my daughter and her children spend with her larger Mormon family, and be more appreciative that they will "take care of" her and my grandchildren.

You reminded me that my wish is the same as yours: I want my daughter to be happy, and my grandchildren to be happy. I will focus on that.

controlling and bossy. He had to be extremely patient to wait for her for so long. They are really happy. His parents are easy going and extremely funny. His dad has a great sense of humor. His mother has a gay brother.

Found out how many ties we have to each other once they were engaged. His great-grandmother is my aunt's sister. They all have ties to Corinne, Utah, and his mother's parents went to school with my dad. We had NO CLUE. They are really lay back. His mother has depression and anxiety. I don't know if she is on anything.

I'm lucky in that I live in the best ward I ever lived in in all my life. There are still THOSE FEW, but most of the people are quite nice and treat us well. I get treated better now by mormons than I ever did growing up. IF my daughter had to be mormon, then at least she married someone who isn't a jerk mormon. I have no doubt at all that if she all of a sudden found her anti-mormon side again, he'd leave with her and his family would be fine with it.

I hope you can be as happy as possible-and be happy by being yourself (not trying to appease them). TBMs will never fully accept that someone who doesn’t fit their mold can be happy. The BoM teaches that “wickedness never was happiness,” and they see so much “wickedness” in your life. Of course, you are far removed from wickedness, but in their minds, anything that doesn’t follow the Mormon script wickedness. If you find happiness, they have to do some mental gymnastics

We can never make someone else do anything they do not wish to do.

We can only be the person we wish they would see, in hopes that someday they will wish to be part of our lives.

It's a very emotional, often painful tightrope. You will never be the perfect person they want. Nor can you be - you are you, with all of your perfections and imperfections. That is what humanity is.

My suggestion to you is this - be the kind, loving person you want to be to them. Show them the love you want, but also do not let them be abusive of that kindness. Boundaries must be respected. Remember birthdays, show interest in your grandchildren's lives. Go to their school events and sports events. Be involved as you feel you should.

And let the chips fall where they may. You never know - as your grandkids get older, their attitudes may change. Do not change who you are to appease them - that will do nothing but hurt you.

If any of your family members are cruel with accusations, the agreement that "religion is forbidden" goes down - purely to defend yourself. If they accuse you of bringing up religion, you state that they opened the door when they decided to disrespect you. You will not talk religion - but you will not be a doormat for them to humiliate.

Concerning the dancing is evil.
It was Brigham Young who said, “If you want to dance … do it, and exercise your bodies, and let your minds rest,” and “If you wish to dance, dance; and you are just as much prepared for a prayer meeting after dancing as ever you were, if you are Saints.” (Journal of Discourses, 6:149, 148.)
Of course he might have been speaking as a man.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2020 09:53AM by lapsed2.

Maybe ,as your article is very articulate , you could rewrite it a little and send it to your daughter as a letter which will show her your real feelings.
I am not an exmo so someone on this board could advise better.

Mormons will pretend to play nice if you play their game. Don't stoop to their level. They are really good at the game.

Your apostasy feeds their quest to feel superior and they need that like an addict needs a fix.

I come from a super duper TBM family and at this point I do duty visits and calls with my mother. I notice my TBM sibling do the same with her as well AND with each other. Mormonism has made the family so hollow that their is nothing at all behind their facades and they don't even interest each other. They are all sick of the gossip and judgment but won't stop. My TBM sister says she considers visiting mom the same as a visiting teacher obligation. Oddly she still doesn't use the word "minister."

You are a gem forestpal because you aren't afraid of the truth and your posts always have heart. Let them go. Best thing I ever did for myself was distance from the family.

"my daughter and her new family accuse me of not believing in God or Christ, and of following Satan"

Oh I could have written most of what you wrote above. I relate. I have come to find, from this board and other sources, that the dynamics you describe is just very typical. My oldest daughter is married to a nice man that she met at BYU, but they think that since I left the church - that I am evil. I drink coffee, and it just blows them away. They see a coffee maker in my house, and you would think it's some sort of sacrifical satanic caldron of evil brew. I too laugh a lot, and it bothers them. I shouldn't be this happy. They limit the amount of time I spend with the grand kids, and I never get to baby sit because my influence would be so satanically detrimental to them.

It's not just you - it's most of us, who still have children in the cult.

Ted, you and us !

Have your grandkids told you that you make Jesus cry? They will.

No doubt they probably will at some point! Lol

Ted, you make Jesus cry.

The rest of us are quite fond of you but Jesus clearly has mixed feelings.

Oh there is no doubt about it..lol However, in my defense he cries a lot. A very emotional guy. Probably needs to be on an anti-depressant.

"Jesus wept"

John 11:35. In Primary, we had to memorize a Bible verse of our chooice. My friend chose this verse.

I am so sorry that you lovely people have had to endure the same type of mistreatment from Mormon family members. It does help to know that this is common, and that I'm not being paranoid or overly sensitive. Still--I wish there were no such thing as narcissists. It's so sad!

You can't control what other people think about you. I would just disregard whatever they say behind your back. I've found that it helps to totally own who you are and what you do. Be proud of your abilities, achievements, and interests. Be mindful of whatever small, human faults that you have. Know that it is okay to be different from other people. If you feel comfortable with your life and your choices, then the opinions and insults of other people will not carry so much weight with you. One of my favorite sayings is, "Not everyone is going to be a fan."

But you can enforce the "no talking about religion" rule. That is a two way street. If they say something about you not believing in God or Jesus to your face, then tell them that you do not tell them what they believe, and therefore they should not tell you what you do or do not believe. If the grandchildren report something to you, I would just respond, "Your family does not know anything about my beliefs." Then go on to talk about something else.

Don't tolerate disrespect. Speak up for yourself in a dignified manner if those people are rude to your face. Look them in the eye, lower your voice, and speak very firmly. You might try, "I don't speak disrespectfully to you, so please don't speak disrespectfully to me." That works with children as well. Or to children, "I know you've been taught better than to treat an adult like that" (whether that's true or not!)

Let your grandchildren observe how you are and how you live. Hopefully they will learn something through observation -- most (non-Mormon) kids do. Kids do pick up on a kind, loving, non-judgmental attitude. Hopefully that will override their Mormon indoctrination. But if it doesn't, then at least you tried your best.

I wouldn't worry about missing (or being deliberately left out of) their church activities. It sounds like you see them often anyway.

Thank you, Summer. I will use your dialogs! You are someone who is truly empowered.

Who or what is a forestpal?

      That's the kind of question one expects that to answer is to invite judgment:



Judge not if your genitals, or their products, are not at risk.

It was a random question.

Double meaning: a twist on my real names, and I live on the edge of a forest.

>^..^<

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2020 03:40PM by forestpal.

That list is a target-rich environment, as they say, but to pick just one item:
Dance is wicked? BYU has an international reputation in ballroom dance, and in folk dancing. It also has a pretty good modern bpdance program, and there are at least three professional modern dance companies along the wasatch front, an unusually high number for a midsize metropolitan area. And there is Ballet West, and Samba Fogo, a Brazilian dance troupe.

These people sound like a spectacularly joyless bunch. "The best revenge is a life well lived" seems applicable here.

Joyless and jealous.

"My daughter's husband is a good man. My grandchildren have a stable home with loving parents"

"dancing is wicked (they stopped my granddaughters' dance lessons)"

If these are the same people, I have to disagree: he is not a good man, and the g/ch do not have loving parents.


"my daughter and her new family accuse me of not believing in God or Christ, and of following Satan… I can't defend myself."

This is not a relationship, this is a beatdown. Daughter or no, they have no right to treat you like that. If I were placed in your situation, I'd stand up for myself anyway just to maintain my self-respect. What are they going to do, shun and demean you? They already do that now. What do you have to lose by refusing to allow them to wipe their feet on you?

You don't need toxic people in your life – do you?

Given the conditions you describe probably not.
Those people who mistreat you percieve themselves pure and holy whereas they are acting completely outside the teachings of Jesus.
It is reminescent of the glorious days of the Spanish inquisition. those who did not go along were tortured and then burned at the stake.
It is a mindset that will eventually destroy any organization which pursues it.
I feel sympathy for you

Your children and/or in-laws, like nearly all Mormons, have been successfully fully programmed by TSCC to see you as a non-person unless you confess your wayward ways and shamefully slink back to the One True Church. There is NO opening on their side, no desire on their part to understand any other point of view.

You wrote, “If the desired outcome is not possible, maybe I need to stop stressing about Mormons who don’t like me.” That is right, even, while difficult, when those Mormons are one’s own children.

Taking this a step further, here is the secret that few people discover: If you can find a way to feel *compassion* for their ignorance, you will begin to free yourself from the need to have their approval. This works! THIS is the key to restoring your own well-deserved sense of appreciating who you truly are as a person, even though they cannot!

I am a long-time lurker, and only occasionally post. You, forestpal, are one whose posts I most appreciate; you express a great deal of wisdom and kindness in your responses to others. To be on the receiving end of these same virtues, look to real friends, to those around you who recognize the goodness in you and are always ready and happy to share gentle, uplifting words with you.

>>Taking this a step further, here is the secret that few people discover: If you can find a way to feel *compassion* for their ignorance, you will begin to free yourself from the need to have their approval.

That is really wise advice.

Another thought would be to not take the opinions of others personally. And opinion is just that -- an opinion. Everyone has one.

I was telling a group of teachers (including new teachers) recently that principals and other teachers have had a range of opinions about me over the years. Some think that I'm a great teacher, some think I'm average, and some think that I'm terrible. And here's the thing: I have always been the SAME teacher. I've learned not to worry too much about what other people think. Some people will take to you, and some won't.

I've also learned that people can change their opinion. I remember one teacher who absolutely hated me and who would complain bitterly about me and make fun of me. Now she comes to me for advice. Oh, how things have changed. :-)

When I talked about owning your strengths and weaknesses (above,) I was thinking about my own career. The greatest thing that I've struggled with over the years is in managing the behavior of the most difficult students -- the ones who curse, refuse to cooperate, throw furniture, dump things out of the window, fight, etc. Some people are great with those kids, but I'm not. I've struggled with those students for my entire career. And now that I'm close to retirement, I finally feel comfortable in acknowledging my struggles. I'm very good at many aspects of teaching including planning and instruction. I can reliably deliver above average to spectacular test scores -- something for which I've weirdly never been much valued. I'm just not great in that one specific area. And that's okay. I've managed to make a career of it anyway, and I've helped a lot of kids. I don't have to be wonderful at everything to be a good person and a good teacher.

And as I've grown more comfortable acknowledging my "fault," I've found that I've gained greater respect. I'm comfortable with who I am and who I've become. And I think my friends and colleagues recognize that. People instinctively know when you are well beyond the point of taking ****. You can't take me down because I refuse to take myself down.

>"I'm considering going down that list of "objections" and correcting my faults, one by one (except for marriage and joining the cult). Would this help?"

No, it wouldn't. I hope you know that the list of your perceived "faults" is arbitrary. If you "corrected" every one of them, they would simply add others, or suggest your motivations for change aren't "worthy". These "objections" are nothing more than excuses to justify putting you down. The church says you are not worthy, so they must come up with a list for why that is. Worse, you might even need to be feared as you have values that conflict with the church. (I mean how dare you stand up for women's rights and accept actual science!)

How much are you willing to change to appease someone else? How happy will you be? Is it a healthy relationship if you are the one doing all the changing and have changed so much that you no longer recognize yourself? Why would you bend over backwards to change yourself for someone who 1) doesn't seem to like you for who you are, and 2) would never considering changing anything about themselves for you?

Because really, nothing in that list of "objections" are actually objectionable. In reality, many items are strengths that would be horrible for you to lose to appease someone who doesn't actually want you to be you. And that's it in a nutshell, they don't want you have strength and individuality, because you're less controllable. then.

Please just be the best you that you can be. If they come around and become OK with that, then good, and it can happen as rare as it might be, people can change and mature and come to see what they have lost... But if they don't then it's THEIR loss and THEIR fault. Not yours. You aren't the one sitting in judgement of someone for not meeting your arbitrary "rules" for life.

No.

With God, all things are possible. Like Jaredite barges, Native American Hebrew steel smelting, jackalopes, etc. I suppose, though, there comes a time when you have to pull the plug on the brain dead.

My question is, "Why do you need people to like you, who sing the praises of a Con Man, child rapist, cuckold bull?"
If that's the kind of man MORmONs 'like', then I want to be the opposite of what MORmONs like.

It’s so easy to be angry at the church. It’s hard to accept what they do. Maybe I’ll never be over it. If Mormons want to believe a lie, let them learn the hard way. I did.

The Mormons in my life act like a majority group, who gang up on me, in numbers--know what I mean? They are loud and aggressive, besides. They are "like the Armies of Helaman", and can be very intiimidating to a forest critter, like me. I feel I have people on "my side" now. All of you have given me a great deal of validation, today.

I am overwhelmed by the kindness and support on this thread!

((((I love you guys!))))

I will keep all of your posts on my desktop, and keep referring to it, as it will be an on-going journey, to maintain my relationships with my grandchildren, and give them much-needed unconditional love and joy; and at the same time nurture my own happiness and self-respect. It's a win-win for me. I'm starting to see this separation as a good thing, even. Because you are people who have had similar experiences, your advice is priceless!

YOU are the true "ministers!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2020 04:08PM by forestpal.

"The Mormons in my life act like a majority group, who gang up on me, in numbers--know what I mean?"

Yeah. Know exactly! And that is a very important statement. In the world they are not a majority. But, in their element they are and they feel power from that. They feel validation being part of a like-minded group. So that gives them permission to be "loud and aggressive" as you point out.

They are only a tempest in a tea cup but if you are stuck in the tea cup with them, they are a raging storm, category 5 hurricane. At least it can feel that way. People evacuate hurricanes. Not a bad idea.

One of the most important and helpful things my therapist ever said was, "Maybe you should stop chasing after the love of those who won't or can't give it and accept the love that others are waiting to give."

If you somehow do the right combination of things to change your shunners' attitudes, then theirs will be a conditional love. They only love you when you're a certain way.

They won't ever come around to accepting you the way you are now because they're deeply involved in a system that reinforces their rejection of you. You're outnumbered.

They've shown where their loyalties are, and you aren't on the list. So let go, grieve the loss, and move onward, forward.

Hey, that makes sense. Focus on the kids who do appreciate you and have loads of fun with them. It might be that sooner or later, the one who doesn't will start to smarten up. But in the meantime, you can have a blast!

I wouldn't want anyone but my children calling me "mom."

I also wouldn't consider calling anyone but my parents by the parental title.

That said, you have the right to stay away from someone who makes you feel insecure, negative, hopeless, marginalized, and disrespected. Although I'm certain it seems impossible to stay away from this daughter, I would recommend you do so.

I also don't think you will separate from her until the pain of staying and continuing to take the abuse is worse than the thought of the pain of separation.

I hope this works out for you soon.

I do not want mormons to like me.

I am amazed at the number of people who have had similar problems with Mormon children and grandchildren, and other "close" Mormon family members. The posters on this thread represent a variety of backgrounds, lifestyles, beliefs, ages, etc., yet we all share almost the exact same experiences with Mormons. It's gotta be THEM and not us. Here's our validation!

The above advice is incredible! Thank you, Forestpal, and thank you for all those who responded. I have benefitted from this thread, and going to archive this, too.

I have one child who married a Mormon, and I have four Mormon grandchildren, and Mormonism is the only wedge between us. I, also, am "forbidden" to even mention religion in their presence.

My grandchildren's other grandparents and family are all Mormons, and they treat me exactly the same way as Forestpal's treat her. Exactly. It has been a constant struggle, and I don't expect that it will get any better. Mormons don't change, as a rule, and I'm "less than nothing" to them, so they would never pay attention to anything I had to say, anyway. They don't notice that I'm living a happy, prosperous, "Christian" life. Yes, they see only what they want to see, and what they are told to see.

After I left the cult, some of my personal changes/improvements have taken many months, even years, and I'm still not there yet. I don't have all that time to waste waiting for any Mormons to change, when they don't want to. For 7 years, I have been shunned by a lot of my Mormon family members, literally ALL of my Mormon neighbors and Mormon former fake-friends, and the Mormon grandparents of my grandchildren are no exception.

For me, seeing the big picture takes me out of all that is PETTY, and detaches me from all the shunning, snide remarks, and attempted alienation from my grandchildren. A lot of Forestpal's "faults" are very petty, and can be laughed off. Mormons can be idiots. But I think we do need to stand up against serious defamation of character, and accusations of following Satan and being a bad influence, and the rejection of who we are, and the denial of our rights.

The big picture is, "What's best for my children and grandchildren." Next, it's "What's best for me." I can usually figure out activities and behaviors that are best for ALL of us. It takes work.

The posters who recommend distancing or no contact are clearly doing this for self-preservation, and not to maniuplate or punish the Mormons. You more bold posters are a good example for those of us who often allow ourselves to be trampled under by the domineering Mormons. Thank you, RFM, for giving me courage to try to stand up to mean-ness!

What has been working for me, is the old adage, "Knowledge is power." Next is understanding. RFM has helped with this, in leaving the cult, too. This includes understanding of ourself. I am developing a stonger core self, that hopefully will not be penetrated by the slings and arrows of Mormonism, and other bad things that happen in life. I guess this replaces the old habit of leaning on the cult and its MorGod.

But there is something beyond knowledge and understanding and inner strength, and that is love. I can't truly love everyone, but I usually can like some good qualities in others. Forestpal mentioned some good qualities in those Mormon in-laws, for example, and she can focus more on those.

12345 writes:

"...here is the secret that few people discover: If you can find a way to feel *compassion* for their ignorance, you will begin to free yourself from the need to have their approval. This works! THIS is the key to restoring your own well-deserved sense of appreciating who you truly are as a person, even though they cannot!"

Part of achieving "compassion for ignorance" is realizing that some people really are ignorant. You aren't imaging they are, but they really are. Don't feel guilty for being too harsh; reality is often harsh.

I remember SusieQ#1, and sometimes I thought she was too easy on the Mormons, but she was an example of how love and a larger perspective can be the answer.

We can focus on loving our children and grandchildren and, as Olderelder wrote: "stop chasing after the love of those who won't or can't give it and accept the love that others are waiting to give."

Forestpal, you are doing great, so far. Don't alter who you are, and continue living your great, happy life!

(((hugs)))

I am so sorry this is happening to you. I am an active Mormon and have had all my children leave the church. They're always calling me, visiting me, trying to get me to do lots of activities with them, so I do. We have game nights, dinners in and out of the home, discuss problems and find solutions, vacation together, etc. I am so happy they come to me often. Therefore, they must feel I am not shunning them for leaving the church. I would never want that! Two are adopted and one's a step, but they all thank me often for raising them and for saving them from the life they would have had with their biological parents. Of course, I love them as if I'd given birth to them. I even visit the churches they attend, and they come with me when I give sacrament meeting talks and to some holiday parties. With all my heart, I wish this could be your relationship too--but I do not have any other members of my faith in my family locally. Communication is your only hope or you will suffer for years to come. Examine all your choices in how to handle this problem. Your in-laws, SIL, and daughter need to have their eyes opened to how they are making you feel as well as to the damage they are creating in their own children but that's beside the point. The point is--Church or no Church, and God or no God--your daughter has forgotten your worth and hired subs for your role in her life. Inside, she is as miserable as you about this. She just doesn't know it yet. Examine your options. She is full of fear, sorrow, misery, confusion, so she is gravitating to others/safety and staying there/living her life there. I don't know your answer, but if it were me, the first thing I would do is to start having mother-daughter lunches once a month. Maybe start a tradition of going to a spa together on her birthday weekend. Plan a day well in advance of Christmas to go shopping (just the two of you) to pick out her Christmas present from you. Don't be afraid to let her see that you still pray over your meals, chant, meditate, etc. Maybe she would like to come to meditation group with you? Or to an Ashram or to the Jewish Museum? Slowly build a relationship (over years) that opens her eyes to world religions and even the good and bad of Mormonism. You're one of the three most important people in this world to her. She needs to know it.