they apparently believe their pleasures are more important than the safety of their children.

I hope they either produce their (her?) children in good health or spend the rest of their lives in HELL.

Yes, this is precisely what selfishness & 'religion' result in.


btw, does anyone 'know' / have solid info they are or recently were MORmONs?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2020 08:25PM by GNPE.

The odds don't look good. She has 2 dead spouses and the guy, her brother, that killed her 2nd husband, mysteriously dies. His wife mysteriously dies by "natural causes"(and has now been exhumed) and they get married weeks after she dies. Unless they have stashed the kids with some of their cult members, I don't have much hope that the kids haven't suffered the same fate as their spouses. I hope they lock her up for contempt of court, stuff her in jail with a big Polynesian cellmate that "coerces" her to give up the truth.

let's revise that ever-so-slightly so that the Polynesian cellmate 'motivates' her to tell the complete truth...


as in shows her / him that telling is their best alternative...


are/were either of them MORmON?

Chad wrote doomsday books for the Mormon audience. Check Amazon for his titles. Some are chilling:

Evading Babylon
Days of Fury
One Foot in the Grave
Living on the Edge of Heaven.

His books are still being sold on Amazon but his author page has been deleted.

'someone' just posted a 'Do Not Buy Books from this person' review, his author page is still up

You can "peek inside". I was not impressed with the writing and the content was just... weird.

So Idaho won’t protect kids against homicidal maniacs but they’ll press felony drug charges against truckers hauling legal hemp.

Time will tell, there are valid incidents of gov't taking kids away without proper cause (Think Homeland Security / Border Patrol in the SW U.S.)

There has always been a time lag after an awful event from DUI / DWI to murder where law enforcement must gather facts, present it to a prosecutor / judge.

Will they get 'what's coming to them'? I (former Idaho State sworn police officer) sure hope so.

Come to think of it, I think the hemp thing was about states rights. Their contempt for Washington kinda makes me proud of Idaho potatoes.

I think the kids are dead. SHE murdered them, and maybe he helped. I would be willing to bet that they will commit a double suicide when they get close to losing their freedom.

Remember, he has been quoted as saying she has no children. And she has been quoted as saying she had a daughter who died. It seems pretty obvious what happened to them now.

Wish is wasn’t so ....

you & Everyone here, Watcher2, this is So Sick


me: there is no 'thinking' here, only warped emotions.

As soon as the physical evidence has been gathered & processed, Lori Vallow will be arrested, possibly with Daybell ... if they don't off themselves, that is.

tears for those children victims of warped minds.

IDK if either one of these folks was MORmON or not, but they appear to be well-connected to the MORmON community; she's from Rexburg, he writes MORmON oriented books...


ChurchCo could reach out to them & plead for Truth (a somewhat rare commodity these days) and ask them to reveal where THE CHILDREN ARE.

What are we betting on that possibility, Anyone?


No Morals, No Ethics in Morland or in ChurchCo, that's for sure, it's all wound up in legalities.

Doesn't the CEO...oops I mean profit...prophet, whatever...have the "keys" to condemn us lesser beings to OutDark? I'm not just talking excommunication here, but actually, individually pronouncing a pre-mortal sentence, revoking salvation. Like, Jesus-level "keys"?

I thought that was the basic idea Friggem Young was working into the culture, in tandem with blood atonement, as he consolidated his dictatorship in pioneer-days Utah.

I'd gotten the impression and vaguely recall being told that along with "JS gets to judge you" that the following prophets could revoke your salvation if you did something especially heinous, like serial killing, so that when you get your facetime with Jesus he will already have gotten the interoffice memo about you and he can bag and tag you for Perdition? That may have come from my MIL, who is a self-appointed GA and likes to make cult policy, so I dunno, I may have picked up some heresy there.

My point is, the cult doesn't thump the salvation stick on the people like Daybell and Vallow. It covers the crimes of pedophiles and other child abusers. Not that I think ecclesiastical pressure is going to help find Vallow's kids, because I think she is full-on antisocial, but what about people who do bad things but are still capable of having a conscience and fear damnation? Shouldn't the Bishops be leaning on them more? Instead, they shame the victim and cover the crime.

I'm aware of three deaths being linked to Daybell & Vallow, with a suspicion that two more will be uncovered:

1.  Vallow's husband, from whom she was divorcing, allegedly killed by Vallow's brother. There are no doubts about the manner in which he died.

2.  Vallow's brother, the one who killed her husband. No data has been given to the public regarding the circumstances of his death.

3. Sister Daybell, who died of a cause that got itself passed off initially as "natural". The body was exhumed in December and nothing has yet reached the press regarding the results of the autopsy. People are saying poison is suspected. I'm aware that she was kind enough to die about two weeks before the Daybell-Vallow nuptials. And was Vallow already living in Idaho then?

4. & 5.  These would be the two kids, ages 7 & 17. As yet the only evidence is the lack of evidence that they are still alive. It is conceivable that they are having a grand ol' time in some off-the-grid cultish campground. But it's also possible that they are deceased, and also possible that the circumstances of their deaths will never be known, and their bodies never recovered.


EVIDENCE:

1.  Unless an independent witness comes forward, there is no way the prosecution can establish beyond the shadow of a doubt that the circumstances of Mr. Vallow's death are different from what is currently being bruited about; Vallow's brother shot him.

So I don't think the prosecutor in the jurisdiction where this occurred will ever file a murder charge. And he's the only one who can prosecute for the crime.

2.  Vallow's brother's body has also been exhumed. If the results of the autopsy provide a basis for declaring his death a homicide, then what evidence exists that points to a person or persons who caused the death?

Let's say there's a ton of arsenic in the body...what proof exists to establish in the minds of the jurors as to who poisoned him? To say it's all about 'Cui Bono', who benefitted obviously sounds good, but it isn't proof. The jury has to be shown that it was Colonel Mustard, in the pantry, with the salt-shaker full of Arsenic salt. You can't just shrug your shoulders and ask, "who else could it have been?"

Maybe she did it and she screwed up enough so that the detectives can make a good case and the DA's people don't give Vallow that "go ahead and try on the glove, OJ" moment that allowed the jury to acquit. The whole process is not likely to be easy in terms of getting a conviction.

3. Sister Daybell's autopsy either comes back with proof of a homicide or it doesn't. If it does, one has to imagine that a case could be made against Bro. Daybell. But what if Vallow did it for him, while Daybell was somewhere setting up a rock-solid alibi? Hopefully, some neighbor's Ring doorbell caught some video of Vallow skulking about on the day Sis. Daybell died...

4. Who will prosecute if the kids are not found, say, within a year? They last lived in Idaho. (Last seen in September? In Idaho, before Sis. Vallow died? What!)

You think the appropriate County DA wants to prosecute a case with no evidence of them even being deceased? District Attorneys live in mortal fear of their conviction percentage rates dropping! If the Rexburg people end up filing a case, with no bodies and no evidence as to how they died, they will be drawing straws and the short straw gets to be the filing DA.

Far easier to spend time hassling Vallow in terms of the demand to produce the kids, but I bet we see that there are limits as to the power of CPS (The CA name for the agency charged with protecting minors' rights & safety) regarding just what they can do to her. If she swears on a stack of end-of-days bibles that the kids are fine, how long can they keep her in jail with no evidence that the kids AREN'T fine? I don't know.

One very (to me) interesting aspect of this overall situation is that because there are numerous jurisdictions involved, it might only require one of the individuals involved from one or another jurisdiction to screw up and ruin it for all the others.

Complicated cases require investigators and prosecutors who are typically NOT to be found in city and county agencies. In those agencies, the investigators (police) deal with a clientele who don't spend a lot of time creating sophisticated plans and then using stop-watches and scrambled walkie-talkies to carry out the plans.

We can all agree that Daybell and Vallow are bad people, but there is a good chance that just like with Al Capone, they'll be brought to justice via something they never gave a second thought to.


I remain fascinated, but somewhat informed.

In case U didn't notice, my post was concerned ChurchCo voicing a plea to Daybell & Vallow to come forward on their own with a moral-ethical standing / clarity of purpose-voice.

This is something they Clearly Could do, but should they? I say YES they should.

'where there is no vision the people parish' Proverbs 29:18

don't blur the distinction / difference between Right & Wrong, 2nd Nephi 15:20, 2nd Nephi 4:31



If U knew the sordid details of my personal history (divorced in a most vicious & deceptive manner) You'd get my drift about how ChurchCo UTTERLY FAILS to Step Up & face wrong-doing.

Plain & Simple, Black & White, much more X infinity of the Daybell / Vallow situation WITH HER CHILDREN fgs.

ChurchCo ONLY CARES ABOUT CHURCHCO, NO MATTER WHO IS COLLATERAL DAMAGE.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2020 09:13PM by GNPE.

https://fox13now.com/2020/01/31/fox-13-investigates-the-writings-of-chad-daybell/

Daybell is an RM, BYU grad. But he has now fled the reservation.

I think Vallow was never a Mormon, and now she is Church of Daybell, reformed.

Mormonism's leadership carry no weight with these two.

I used to joke when watching “America’s Most Wanted” with DW. “I’ll bet he’s an RM”. Sometimes I was right. When Mormons go bad, they really go bad.

But then even I got an horrible release ... I mean an honorable release!

But my only real failing was going inactive the last five months... No biggie.

I hear Alan Dershowitz has some free time now. Perhaps he'll take them on as clients.

There are probably J. Reuben Clark school of law graduates serving the citizens of Idaho! The Idaho State Attorney General's Office will chew him up and spit him out!

So he wouldn't dare!!

I don't know, but I'd imagine the mighty Dershowitz would take on such people. Von Bulow, OJ Simpson, other miscreants: this couple would complete the set.

I'll bet he could use the assistance of able co-counsel. What's your schedule look like?

I'm booked solid until after the Super Bowl! Then I'm free till April Conference.

I'll take care of the billing...

this episode started (?) in Rexburg, is that correct? (children last seen there); this is heart-land territory for ChurchCo whether or not THE CHILDREN have membership records;


IOW, if ChurchCo can't step up to the plate on this one.... How could they ever speak about lesser matters?

Something is heinous in the underlying doctrine of the church. There's the shadow of blood atonement, BY's helpful remedy. "It's for your own good"!

And there's the reuniting of loved ones in the Celestial Kingdom after death. Both concepts undervalue THIS life, with the promise of a better one to come.

If one is focused on the life you'll have later, and the promise that "god will sort it all out", the thinking of someone with a border line personality can morph into something twisted and bizarre.

The church does nothing to disabuse magical thinking. No. It encourages it.

  August 2019: Lori Vallow, along with her children J.J. and Tylee, moved to Rexburg, Idaho from Arizona.

  September 23, 2019: The last time anyone saw or heard from J.J. or Tylee.

  October 19, 2019: Tammy Daybell dies. she is the mother to five adult children, the youngest currently on his mission.


From what I've read, Chad and Lori, and Lori's niece, met in Arizona late in 2018 when Chad went down to flog his books on the End of Times rodeo podcast circuit.

One wonders to what level, to what height of passion, or whatever, their relationship had risen by August, such that Lori would move the family to Rexburg? And did the two women ever meet? Did Tammy know that Lori was winning, had won, her husband's affection? And of course, did he/they help Tammy move along to the hereafter so that they could spend nights together?


Here's an update with a timeline:
https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/02/the-major-players-and-timeline-of-events-in-the-disappearance-of-j-j-vallow-and-tylee-ryan-feb2/

Note that they didn't just pick out the island of Kauai at random. Lori had lived there for a couple of years (2014-2016) with her then-husband, running a business.

It sounds weird, but one story has Chad & Lori (Chori!) wanting to rent a bedroom in a house on Kauai, and in an email, Chad tells the owner something about himself, including the 'fact' that Tammy, the dead wife, helped him pick out Lori as his new wife because she wanted him to be content while she took up her new duties in the Paradise, probably something to do with becoming a brood cow.

Such a fascinating tale!

Who are J.J.’s biological parents ?

The press does not seem to have been given the particulars as of yet.

Lori Cox-unknown-Logioia-Ryan-Vallow-Daybell is on her fifth husband.

She seems to be only two biological children, Colby (Logioia) Ryan, adopted by Joseph Ryan, the next husband (here's his video plea to her: https://youtu.be/ISx2UB3UJl0 on 01/05/2020) and Tylee Ryan.

Lori's fourth husband, Charles Vallow, is the brother of Kay Vallow Woodstock. I've never found the verbiage laid out, just so, but the indication is that one of her biological children either bore or sired Joshua, AKA JJ, and then gave him up for adoption. Charles (JJ's biological grand uncle) Vallow and Lori adopted JJ.

It was Lori's brother Alex Cox who shot Charles Vallow. He is now deceased.

Lori has a niece, Melanie, who divorced Brandon Boudreaux and then in November of 2019 married Ian Pawlowski, and if you look at his photo, he reminds you of a young Chad Daybell...at least he did me. Melanie is said to be as involved in the End of Days cult as the others. Ian Pawlowski's divorce in early 2019 was handled by the same attorney who is now saying he represents Chad & Lori. There is some suspicion that he is also in the End of Days thingy.

Brandon reported being shot at by someone in a vehicle and gave the plate number to the cops, who allegedly told him that it was registered to Charles Vallow. Apparently nothing came of that. I guess "no harm, no foul"?

Also, JJ had a service dog. It was returned to the kennel that had trained it, in August of 2019, in Arizona, which they moved from on Aug. 31, 2019.


Simply fascinating...

The ex-husband of Lori Vallow's niece, Brandon Boudreaux, was shot at from a jeep registered to Charles Vallow.

What wasn't answered in the article - who had access to Charles's property after his death? I assume since Lori and Charles weren't divorced, she inherited everything.

Elderolddog? Help?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7842665/Relative-missing-Idaho-children-targeted-drive-shooting.html

I hope someone is monitoring the Rexburg and/or Idaho courts to watch for an arrest warrant being issued, I guess in some circumstances it could be done 'in camera' so as not to alert them.


I still say the GAs should stand up & speak for the children, Rexburg is a thoroughly Mormon town.

I think Brandon Beaudreau (lori’s neice’s ex) knows more than he’s saying. Too much fear in him.

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/02/charles-vallows-ex-wife-became-concerned-for-lori-daybells-mental-health-over-10-years-ago-and-thinks-his-shooting-death-was-100-planned/


Some added details in this article.

A few more interesting bits - https://www.postregister.com/news/local/lori-vallow-s-adult-son-speaks-out-about-his-mother/article_4d44f6d1-babc-5356-847a-808e7b5ffbfa.html

Why don’t the higher up Mormons in Idaho use their gift of discernment to find the missing children?

Wondering what would be most likely? Poison? Gun? Blunt Force Trauma? Smothering? Pushed off a cliff or into a lake?

I simply cannot wrap my head around parents doing that but clearly they did. What were they thinking? Eliminate the witnesses? Freedom to be newlyweds? Save the children from the chaos of the 2nd coming? Give them a fast pass to the Celestial Playground?

And now. Where might the bodies be? That storage unit has to figure in there somewhere. The whole thing is simply ghastly.

As one person put it: "Religion run amok."

Twinker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> As one person put it: "Religion run amok."

Mormonism is pervasive at indoctrinating people to the Magical Thinking.

We might never know their 'thinking' (doubtful at best) I'm guessing a horrible combination of warped ideas & "plans",

'newlywed freedom" combined with children who die go straight to the CK is my guess.

CBS has a crew in Rexburg covering the story, grand-parents have hired a Private Detective.

The focal point of tonight's story was a storage place in Rexburg, camera showed a YBU duffel bag with the "Y" logo up close.

ChurchCo: Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.


clearly a situation / story that ain't going away soon.

https://news.yahoo.com/cell-phone-missing-idaho-teen-121837137.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2020 09:25AM by Twinker.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/02/12/lori-vallow-chad-daybell-religion-missing-idaho-kids-mom-cult/4721695002/


Is there room for them in Hildale or Colorado City?

Chad & Lori are living like there's no tomorrow!


They seem to be extreme psychopaths, and are the center of their own universe. No one else matters. Their children and former spouses were dehumanized by them, reduced to being nothing but excess baggage that were getting in the way of the couples' selfish desires. Narcissism in the extreme.

I have had encounters with several psychopaths. They were all Mormons, and they all groomed me as their victim. Psychopaths are your worst nightmare.

I still can't quite fathom how my Mormon ex-husband could just dump off his children, and abandon them completely. He had plenty of money, yet he paid us no child support or alimony. He had cheated on me since our honeymoon, yet managed to lie and keep it a secret for our entire marriage. He had hit the children for stupid things, like walking in front of the TV, or laughing too loud, or for just being chidren. Most of his abuse was verbal put-downs, name-calling, ridicule, rejection, not participating in our life. He abandoned us with a phone call, (like a coward) and tole me that he was not going to give us any money or any help. He said he didn't want a family anymore, that he wasn't "into kids" and didn't want the children in his life at all. He said we were "nothing but a liability." He didn't think of them as human beings, only as baggage he didn't want. I tried to reason with him, hoping he would keep in touch with the children, to help them adjust to what was happening, and then he said it:

"I don't care what happens to the kids."

Those words still burn in my memory. He said he just wanted us "gone" from his life. There it was. His narcissism carried him to the extreme of psychopathology. I sued for divorce, and got minimal child support, which he did not pay. We did not see or hear from him, for 6 years, and nothing for 10 years after that. No inquiries about the kids' welfare, no phone calls, no birthday cards, no congratulations on their graduations, sports championships, college graduations, weddings, the births of their babies--nada.

My kids were/are great, and they were attentive and sweet to their daddy, when we lived with him, even though he was distant, critical, and sometimes abusive. How could he just throw them away like garbage?

After studying a little bit about psychopaths, sociopaths, and narcissists, I have a clearer picture of what my ex was. Cluster B's often negate the existence of others, and lack empathy, and don't have a capacity to love. My ex BIL told me that he always felt there was something "missing in my ex's soul." I often breathe a sigh of relief that my ex didn't just murder us, to get us out of his life. He wanted to never see the kids again, and he didn't give us another thought. He wanted to be free to secretly move in with his woman, and start another life, without anyone finding out, because his Mormon parents would have dis-inherited him. After his parents died, he married the woman, and went on with his life, as though his children never existed.

"Out of sight, out of mind". Just like what Chad & Lori are thinking.

My adult children have contacted their father, when they have been in LA, and have taken their little children to show them to their grandpa. They have received nothing but rejection and
rudeness. (My kids are doing well financially, so they weren't after his money, much of which he has gambled away in Vegas and with day trading anyway.) He did not make eye contact or ask anything about them. All he did was talk about himself, and gripe about what a horrible world we live in. His dog bit my grandson, when he was sitting on my daughter's lap, and he had to have 5 stitches in his hand, and my ex didn't care, and didn't even ask how the little guy was doing, afterwards.

My family and I should all be happy we weren't obliterated, all those years ago.

the 'unscientific' definition of a psychopath is an individual who harms others without remorse.


My former DW was (is?) one, & ChurchCo was complicit with her in her decisions / actions against me.

Game Over, ChurchCo.