DW was at a Walmart in TN last night. She commented many of the shelves were empty - in particular baby supplies. We help watch our daughter's twins so she stocked on a few things to last a couple of weeks for the babies. Perhaps it is the Mormon background that made me buy a months worth of food and paper products 3 weeks ago. We can comfortably sit out a month of home isolation if it comes to that. I wonder if I overly worry of having then an apocalyptic mind set from my years in Mormonism. A years worth of food storage is hoarding. It is a bit frightening as an older individual when the fatality rate for those > 65 is nearly 9% if the sparse data is correct.

Costco was out of bottled water

It’s not necessarily Mormon background. I grew up where we were easily snowed in for a month. In the ‘60s, my not-mormon parents would buy hundreds of $ of food at a time when we got to town. Four full shopping carts lined up at the register. People asked what we were doing.

Riding home, we kids lied across cardboard boxes of food stacked up to the headliner of our big old Pontiac Cheiftan.

Tonight, there was nary a drop of hand sanitizer in town. (Not that it is effective against viruses), so I made my own with aloe vera jell and alcohol.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2020 09:28AM by kathleen.

It's antibiotics that don't kill viruses.

You are correct.

Since it is in a town where some of DHs coworkers live i am not really happy. I am bitching at DH to use the sanitizer and WASH HIS DAMN HANDS. I am worried about our dear friend who will be 90 next month and is in assisted living.

And Eric, buy diapers. LOTS AND LOTS of diapers!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/how-to-prepare-for-coronavirus-in-the-us-spoiler-not-sick-no-need-to-wear-a-mask/ar-BB10q0NE?ocid=NL_ENUS_A2_20200301_1_1



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2020 09:53AM by Susan I/S.

We need THE RENTS TOO DAMN HIGH fellow to make a WASH YOUR DAMN HANDS PSA.

My eyes itch a lot. Allergies, errant eyelashes, dirt and junk cause me to inadvertently rub my eyes. I bought some Visine to help break me of the bad habit.

I mean, it's just good hygiene in general to wash your hands well, sneeze or cough in a tissue or your elbow, don't reuse dirty tissues (guilty!) - toss those things in the trash.

That's just good stuff to do period.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2020 11:53AM by Beth.

many shelves in Walmart are partially empty all the time. Try to find much ice cream there. (P.S. I don't eat much ice cream these days, but my boyfriend does.) Iced coffee, the kind my son likes, gone quite often in Walmart. Many items that I'm looking for regularly are missing when I go in either Walmart and even the local grocery store.

If I had a set of twins who were still babies or toddlers (mine are 34), then I would make sure I had enough diapers and food for them.

I don't think that your concern is overblown. On the national news, it was said that imports from China/Asia through the Port of Long Beach (2nd busiest port in the U.S.) are down significantly, I think by nearly half. The Port of Oakland has had at least 23 ships cancel for over the next five weeks. Almost all of those ships were coming in from China. A number of Chinese factories have shut down.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/coronavirus-fears-impacting-shipping-business-at-port-of-oakland/ar-BB10xmHM

I think it's wise to check the origin of products that you use regularly and plan accordingly. I think it's also wise to stock up on basics such as tissue and toilet paper (I checked my cat litter this morning as my cat goes through a lot of it.) I don't think it's unreasonable to have supplies for up to a few months. I'm guessing with the warmer weather there will be improved hopes for the coronavirus receding, much as the flu does each spring.

At my job at a toy company, the plants in China closed for a couple of weeks, so it slowed things down as far as incoming shipments go.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2020 01:00PM by doyle18.

When I went into Costco on Friday, the lady checking the membership card at the door stopped us so she could wipe down the handle of the cart we had with a baby wipe of some kind. That's the first time that has ever happened. They had plenty of water at this location.

The same thing happened to me on Thursday. The bottled water was nearly gone and the toilet paper and paper towels were much lower than usual.

I bought some staples that will last me for a few weeks, just in case.

They offer wipes to wipe down the handles and so does Walmart, and then the people would leave the wipes in the cart. I had to take them out when I unloaded their carts or when I helped with carts. If you are going to use a wipe, then throw it in the garbage right there next to the wipe dispenser.

We went to Costco in Ogden and they didn't wipe down the handles there yesterday. We didn't look at water or toilet paper, etc., so I don't know if they had any. Sam's sold water like it was the most precious thing on earth. I couldn't believe how many people bought bottled water, up to 10 pkgs a visit. That was last year. I don't know if they ever ran out. BUT having to go around and pull items forward on shelves, the shelves of some things always are close to empty as they move fast. The grocery store here in Hyrum has plenty of water right now.

I read that beards can be a catchall for viruses and bacteria.

By the same token, it seems to me that long hair "borne like a vapor on the (winter) air" could act like a dragnet for airborne viruses.

If I had long hair at this time, I'd keep it in a tight braid or something when I'm out and about.

My dear friend reminded me that it's critical to keep your hands away from you face.

You're spot on on two of your posts. First, making your own alcohol based gel. It works. But, isopropyl alcohol comes in 3 different strengths in grocery and drug stores. Usually 90%, 70% or 50%. Spend another dollar for the 70 or 90 percent bottle. Also, they say people put their fingers in their eyes, nose, mouth and ears about 23 times a day. Stop doing that. Try to count the number of times you want to put your fingers in those places, and make a conscience effort to stop. Also, if you're travelling by air (planes and airports are full of germs)buy a dollar store travel size (about 2 oz) of pump hair spray. Pour out the hairspray and refill with alcohol. Keep in in your carry on. Spray your hands after you touch the tray table, movie screen, overhead bin and seat back recline button. Better yet, bring a paper towel, spray it and wipe the tray table, armrest and in-flight entertainment device. Also, start your day with a screwdriver, have a few shots during the day to ensure your personal alcohol system is high enough to kill germs!

Do they allow you to take fluids in bottles on airplanes?

The last time my mom flew from Canada to the USA they refused to permit her to take a gift of a couple of commercially-prepared bottles of jam. I had to bring it home and use it myself (yummy).

I had the impression also that fluids, if allowed at all, couldn't be in carry-on.

It's a good idea though, if you can do it. The prevailing advice is to disinfect, disinfect, disinfect.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2020 02:40PM by Nightingale.

Wiped down my tray table and arm rest last trip, a couple weeks ago.

You're allowed fluids in containers 3 ounces or less. Probably don't want you bringing iso- alcohol, hence the hair spray bottle. You could also put it in a blue Listerine bottle, just put a drop of blue food coloring in it.

(response directed to everyone and not you specifically)

Most panics are localised. "Here comes the hurricane and the predictive models show it making landfall [wherever on whatever date]." You have localized runs on supermarkets, you have a resupply chain outside of the area, and you have a relatively good idea about when the event is going to end and emergency supplies will be available.

If the nation panics, oof!

Here we're looking at this crisis retroactively: how did it get here? We're dealing with the existing illness: what treatment works; how long is the incubation period; how easily is it passed from human to human; what are the vectors; how do we get good testing kids out to the nation; how do we contain this when we don't understand it? Supply chains were already disrupted by tariffs. Now they're disrupted on the both the supply and demand side. People who ensure that supplies reach consumers are getting ill or being told to stay home like some dock workers in CA. Some of the staying home business is because that work is slowing down - fewer container ships are coming to port.

I think the issue isn't that we're going to have mass casualties, but that we're going to run out of stuff, or that we perceive that we are going to run out of stuff, *nationwide*

And that's the thing - perception. Most of the cases are near major seaports or international airports. They'll likely be contained. But the stuff that comes in container boxes, gets unloaded along the coast, transfers to tractor trailers and/or trains - that's going to be the issue.

The citizens' trust of federal, state, and local govts to address this issue is at play.

Sooo, that's why I'm all about asking for 90-day prescription of my meds. They're generics that are no longer made in the US. They come from China or India. Probably on container ships.

Have you seen a run on gas stations?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2020 12:13PM by Beth.

While the problem is of concern panic is way OTT . 80 to 90 thousand who have gone down with the virus is minute in relation to the world population. More than 2000 have died, far, far less than the number who have died from flu in countries like the US alone. Let,s all get a grip.

And we're not being reassured. We haven't seen a plan or even a slapdash version of one. Information changes daily, and we don't have someone out front giving updates.

So, yeah. Getting a grip? That bullet train has already left the station.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2020 11:34AM by Beth.

My biggest fear is that the Mormons were right.

Hahahaha! I was thinking about that, too.

Well with a hundred billion dollars they could buy all the food in the world and build a wall around themselves to keep them blocked from the virus stockpile it and outlast everybody.

No, It's Lori and Chad Daybell. The world is ending July 22nd.

What I have heard is that by percentage of people who get sick from the virus, it is more deadly than the flu, but less deadly than SARS.

https://www.cnn.com/2013/08/23/health/h1n1-u-s-fast-facts/index.html

Did any of us know anyone who died of H1N1? Did anyone we know get it?

I have been in the UK for six weeks where the virus struck before it hit the US and where the people live in far greater proximity to each other than Americans. Apart from a shortage of hand sanitizer I've seen no sign of panic. Perhaps Brits are less reactionsry.

> Perhaps
> Brits are less reactionsry.

Now that Boris Johnson is at the helm, I'm not sure you can say that anymore.

Boris is still enjoying his overwhelming victory honeymoon. Concern but no panic here. I fly home Tuesday so it will be interesting to see any new procedures, if any, st Heathrow. Right now there is more chance of dying of regular flu than coronsvirus

Yes and yes.

Our bishop's 40-year old son died of H1N1. My son's FIL also got H1N1.

I had a friend die from H1N1, so it made me aware how deadly a flu virus can be. I did get my regular flu shot that year, but I just made sure I washed my hands more frequently. That's what I'm doing again for this virus.

I have a daughter in Alaska, in Anchorage this week. She will be around tourists all summer. I would bet they aren't going to have nearly as many tourists this summer. I do live inland and in a small community. I'm not going to allow myself to buy into the panic. I'm not going to be stupid, but then I was so sick last year while I was working at Sam's. They didn't allow me to take time off as I was a new employee. I was sick for a month, just like I have been this year, and I did touch my face. I coughed constantly. I lost my voice. I had to touch my nose as I had to wipe it before it ran down my face, AND THEN I handled the groceries of everyone who came through my line.

You can't possibly go anywhere and not be exposed even if they wipe down the handles of your carts.

This is getting out of hand. I can more easily get killed by driving into Logan today (in a foot of snow) than I can to get this virus. My boyfriend drove up to the ski resort in this foot of snow (or more in the canyon). I guess I should just never go out in public again.

I remember from my time working as a cook in a restaurant years ago that a lot of restaurant workers continue working while sick. If you want to know if your local restaurant is a safe place, ask if the workers are given sick days. If not, they will be there no matter what because bills must be paid.

I won't panic until i see guys spraying the streets here like they are in china.

Things just keep getting worse and worse. If guys in white suits start spraying the streets in idaho then i guess its game over. Always thought jesus would take me out in some second coming but no i may get taken out by a virus in the end.

It's getting a little scary out there for lots of folks. The best defence is a good offence, as they say in hockey (and all sports!)

The best we can do for ourselves is to get and stay informed. Listen regularly to updated bulletins from medical and govt sources.

The coronavirus (COVID-19), they are saying, is usually relatively mild in most people. Authorities are allowing many people who are sick with COVID to self-isolate (at least, here in Canada). We should stay home from work and activities in any case if we are ill (as others say, many people go to work sick as they can't afford to take time off or don't want to agitate their employers or whatever reasons but in this time of the worldwide near-panic it's best to try and work from home or just accept that you have to stay away for as long as it takes to ensure you are not going to pass on your germs, whatever they may be. That is the best practice in any case, with or without COVID or other similar issues at any time).

The people most at risk are those who have recently travelled to the most highly affected countries and/or have been in close contact with anyone who has done so (i.e. say a returning spouse who has just been in a named high-risk country).

Also at higher risk than the general population are elderly folks and those with chronic illnesses (i.e. heart disease, diabetes) or with compromised immune systems for any number of reasons.

Staying out of large crowds is being recommended (i.e. sports events and concerts).

Otherwise, it's the usual good practice of frequent handwashing and avoiding introducing germs into our bodies by touching our eyes, nose and mouth (which is often involuntary and unnoticed by us so we have to be more aware of what our hands are doing and keep our fingers away from our face). Handwashing with warm water and soap, for at least 20 seconds, is the recommended way to ensure clean hands. Even with clean hands, avoid touching idly your face (portals of entry for bacteria).

They are also saying to disinfect counters and other surfaces, even in your own home. It should be obvious, more more emphasized now, that surfaces in grocery stores and other high-people-volume places are not clean and may not be routinely disinfected by the business. Handles of grocery carts, for instance, are obviously highly germ-laden areas.

One simple precaution too is to get a flu shot (often given free of charge - at least here in Canada). This doesn't directly protect against COVID-19 but can prevent you getting flu, therefore somewhat immune-compromised and perhaps more susceptible to other illnesses. It also helps the medical world if fewer people are getting sick from respiratory illnesses.

If you do become ill with respiratory symptoms, call ahead to your health care centre to ask for instructions before showing up at their location. This can help prevent spread.

No reputable health care providers are saying that the coronavirus is just floating through the air seeking to wipe out Earth's entire population. You may be at risk if you have travelled to one of the named countries where the virus is currently prevalent. You are at risk if you are in close contact with an infected person. Most people who have contracted the illness have a mild case and they recover. While they are sick they should isolate from others - instructions they will be given by health care workers - to avoid wider distribution.

Canada has not imposed any travel bans. There are advisories. It's good to be aware of which countries can put you at risk of contracting the virus.

For instance, there are over 202,000 people of Iranian origin in Canada, approximately 46,000 in Metro Vancouver where I live. Iran is one of the named countries where the virus is more prevalent. Travellers inbound from Iran are checked, just as they would be anywhere, and isolation precautions taken if indicated.

There are no "men in white suits" roaming the streets scooping up people based on ethnic origin or physical appearance.

There is no mass panic. And no need for it.

I've had a sore throat and sniffles this weekend. Not COVID-related. But it has spurred me into action - getting in some extra non-perishable supplies. Because that's always a good idea anyway.

Of course, with babies and elders and sick folks you'd also want to make sure you were hyper-prepared. And don't forget to have a healthy stash of necessary medications.

Hey. Be informed. Be practical. But don't be scared.

> The best defence is a good offence, as they
> say in hockey (and all sports!)

The best defense is a good Zamboni driver.

People used to rinse out cotton diapers and wash them in hot water for re-use.

Also, bright sunlight kills any virus.

Eating lots of sugary food is never good.
Sugar knocks out your immune system and you can catch illnesses easier.

Stay away from people at 6 feet, wash hands frequently,cover eyes, nose + mouth and avoid going into crowds unnecessarily.

Grow some peppermint tea in pots on the porch.

Most people will shake off the virus without ever knowing they had it but tests will show positive.

In my California town it was announced that a student at the local high school had contact with a person infected with COVID-19. Panic has set in! Trader Joe's was out of toilet paper and their more popular frozen food and canned goods items. I've never seen the shelves so bare. Walgreen's and Target were out of hand sanitizer. I got one of the last containers of chicken broth and grabbed one of the last containers of Clorox wipes before a woman just behind me hoarded them all. I've never seen such panic.

What really blows my mind are people who still won't cover their mouth when coughing. A cashier at the grocery store turned his head to cough in my direction without covering his mouth. He didn't cough into his elbow like he was supposed to. And at the farmer's market this morning a girl with a phlegmy cough did cover her mouth with her hand, but still, if she had a phlegmy cough she should have stayed at home. The CDC has repeatedly cautioned people to stay at home if sick, or at least to wear a mask so if they cough they won't spew infected droplets on people.

I can't wait till this all blows over. Hopefully a vaccine will be available and included in this year's flu shot.

heartbroken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hopefully a
> vaccine will be available and included in this
> year's flu shot.

They are saying it will take at least a year for a vaccine to be available. They are just working on developing it now. It isn't even ready yet for trial runs.

it-shay!

Unless you’re the biggest guy on your block, when you hoard, all you’re doing is storing stuff for the guy who is.

No hoarding here. Just making sure I'm functional. If I run out of two of my meds, I won't be. That's my greatest fear.

Maybe tumwater will teach me how to fish. ;)

TUMWATER - teach me how to fish? I'll give you duck eggs! I have red wrigglers in my compost, and maybe you can lend me a fishing pole?

In the very near future, I'll be collecting seven eggs a day. Seven. Assuming I can find them. When I only had two layers, I'd hard boil some and give them to my neighbors who live under the bridge. I see no problem keeping that up and expanding.

We have a bunch of permaculture hippies in unincorporated areas of Lewis and Thurston counties, and we have folks living in bunkers with trip wires and whatnot. I'm friends with a lot of the permies. I shy away from the bunker folks.

Anyway, I think we'll be good. I'm only worried about my meds.

The only thing gone from the Oxnard Costco is the gas station--they took the whole thing out!

Totally off topic, and I know they'll rebuild it, but it kinda pisses me off. :-)

Our son's friend works at a Honda Service Dept, and he said the worst thing you can run through your engine is Costco gas.

Don't know.
Just passing on what he said.

Nope. Costco gas is different all over the country. So is Shell, Chevron, Exxon, BP, Texaco, etc. They all buy from the nearest refineries. They all blend gasoline for different customers. Shell gas in Salt Lake isn't shipped from their refinery in Deer Park, TX. It's made at the local Chevron, Marathon or Holly refinery to Shell's specs. It's like automotive batteries. There's only 2 makers of car batteries in the US. They just put different labels for different retailers. Your Autozone battery is made by the same people that make your O'Reilley's battery, your WalMart Battery, Sears Die Hard, etc. It's all marketing.

Very interesting. Thanks.

I guess Iran is doing poorly since the theocracy is covering it up.

Headline ... "Genetic testing shows COVID-19 virus may have been spreading in the US for 6 Weeks Undetected"

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Coronavirus-May-Have-Spread-in-U-S-for-Weeks-15096954.php

"Researchers who have examined the genomes of two coronavirus infections in Washington state said the similarities between the cases suggest that the virus may have been spreading in the state for weeks"

Stores are running out of hand-sanitizer in my neck of the woods which is eighty miles from where the first U.S. death occurred this week. People are also snapping up Clorox wipes like crazy.

"If the virus has been spreading undetected in Washington since mid-January, that could mean that anywhere from 150 to 1,500 people may have it, with about 300 to 500 people the most likely range, said Dr. Mike Famulare, a principal research scientist at the Institute for Disease Modeling in Bellevue, Wa., who performed the analysis. These people “have either been infected and recovered, or currently are infected now,” he said.

Many of those people would now be in the early stages of incubating the virus, and might not yet be contagious, Dr. Famulare said."

"Brazil/SPBR1/2020 genome of #coronavirus differs by 3 mutations to the Wuhan-Hu-1 strain. 2 of these mutations are shared with its closest sequence from a patient from Munich, Germany#covid19 https://twitter.com/AdamJKucharski/status/1233470247686025216 …"

"Moderna Therapeutics, a biotech company based in Cambridge, Mass., has shipped the first batches of its COVID-19 vaccine https://ti.me/3cbi9Fj";

This thread has hit the 60-post limit mark.

Starting a new, continuation, thread is very much encouraged.

:)