Authorities in many countries are moving to limit crowd sizes as one measure to try and contain spread of the COVID-19 virus.

For example, the Louvre Museum is currently closed due to COVID-19. As CBC News reports:

"... the Mona Lisa, accustomed to droves of staring tourists, hung in a vacant room of the shuttered Louvre in Paris."

People are still travelling and still congregating but in some cases authorities are choosing to limit gatherings, as they did in Paris over the weekend. Too bad for honeymooners and other travellers who embarked on their once-in-a-lifetime trip to see famous works of art and other popular tourist destinations. But caution is the name of the game at the moment.

The US Surgeon General has said that "Concern is appropriate. Panic is not." However, unfortunately, some panic is setting in. In Canada, a nation of 40M people, we have 24 confirmed cases (BC:8; Quebec:1; Ontario 15), so the numbers are, to date, infinetisimal. We were relatively cool and calm until this past weekend when, unfortunately, 2 deaths from COVID were reported in Washington. Canadians close to that border began stockpiling supplies and Costco was a zoo. As Brother of Jerry mentioned in another thread, the #1 item most people were buying was toilet paper (although symptoms of the covidvirus do not include diarrhoea). Interesting crowd behaviour. One woman was asked by a reporter why she had a grocery cart-full of toilet paper. "I don't know", she replied, "I'm grabbing it because everybody else is". Lemming behaviour sets in!

Information and knowledge are power. The "countries of greatest concern" are currently listed as China, Japan, Italy, Iran and S. Korea, meaning they have significant numbers of people ill with the virus.

However, as I stated in another thread, a person's ethnic origin is not the determinant of their state of health but rather it is a person's travel history. Unfortunately, racism rises as unfounded fear escalates. That's one main reason it's advisable to inform oneself of the realistic risks and act accordingly.

The people at greatest risk of contracting the virus are those who have recently travelled to one of the countries of concern (named above) and anyone who has had close contact with them IF they have contracted the virus. People are "self-isolating" if they have recently returned from one of those countries, which is the responsible approach.

Those who become ill with covidvirus who are at the most risk of serious cases are the more elderly, those with compromised immune systems, and those with underlying chronic health conditions (i.e. diabetes, heart disease).

Of some increased concern are cases of "community spread", which is defined as:

A person who has not travelled to "a region affected by the outbreak or having contact with a known case".

The symptoms of COVID-19 are similar to the common cold (coughing, sneezing, sore throat, fever), known as a URI (upper respiratory tract infection) but can be more intense. Medical advice being given is that if you feel more ill with URI symptoms than is usually the case then you should contact your physician. If you develop symptoms of a "lower respiratory tract infection" (i.e. bronchitis/pneumonia) obviously contact your MD. Don't just show up at a treatment facility without calling ahead if you think you may have covidvirus but call ahead to get advice as to where/when/how to show up.

Simple preventive measures for us each to take include avoiding crowds if advised to do so (maybe forego that concert you were looking forward to), getting the seasonal flu shot if appropriate for you, avoiding contact with anyone who is ill with a URI (good advice for any time), avoiding travel to any of the named most affected countries if possible, disinfect common surfaces in your home (and car?), and, as we've mentioned several times here lately, handwashing, handwashing, handwashing, as well as making a concerted effort not to touch one's face (eyes, nose, mouth) at least not without sparkly clean hands. We often do so inadvertently without even being aware - strive to be more mindful about this important prevention advice. (Germs enter your system through those orifices).

I consider hand sanitizer to be an interim/emergency measure, not the be-all, end-all. Warm running water and soap and scrubbing for a minute or so are more highly recommended to limit the effects of any bacteria we've picked up as we go about our day.

Medics remind that good technique is ultra important: Be sure to wash your thumbs (they often get left out!) and the area between your fingers, as well as all the way up to your wrists. Use clean towels to dry your hands well. Wash often.

Basic clean-freak technique also is to clean/disinfect common surfaces in one's home. And be aware of what we're touching out in the community, such as door handles and grocery carts, items that likely do not get cleaned often enough. This would be the time for hand sanitizer.

Don't forget that anything we have touched before we wash our hands can get transfer of germs we've picked up, hence the need to stay aware, avoid cross-contamination as much as possible, and clean and wash as appropriate; ourselves and our close inanimate objects.

I can relate to the urge to feel a bit panicky in the midst of the unknown and the spectre of a pandemic. But we should work to maintain perspective, continually inform ourselves from reliable news sources and observe the basic precautions as we would do in flu season in any case.

I am watching regular updates re COVID-19 due to being interested in medical matters in general and also because I've had URI symptoms for a few days and feel a bit under the weather so it's more top of mind. Also, I got bitten by a seriously bad flu bug a year ago and became very ill with it. I would like to avoid that again forever and ever.

Oh. And don't go to general conference. Too many people. So much coughing. And a (very) limited interest factor. :)

In honor of all Canadians here on RfM:

This is an extremely good, and quite practical, presentation--by the Canadian Academy of Sports Nutrition--explaining what the virus is, and how to strengthen your personal protection against it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7YefBaeub4

Excellent, Tevai.

Many thanks!

I'll watch it as I sip my hot lemonade throat soother...

I don't have to panic about being a bit sore-throaty as only in my dreams have I travelled beyond home base lately and too, my days of bedside nursing are in the rearview. No more bedpans for me!

Nightingale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Excellent, Tevai.
>
> Many thanks!

:)

> I'll watch it as I sip my hot lemonade throat
> soother...

Most excellent idea! Because of you, I'm going to make hot herb tea as soon as I post this--for both me and Paul. (It's windy here today, and we are both dry coughing from the stuff blowing around in the air.)


> ....my days of bedside nursing are in the rearview. No more
> bedpans for me!

I am happy for you, Nightingale! Yay!

What's the word on hot tea communal bathing?

Avoid communal bathing at all costs. The virus can swim.

California hot tub covid ?

One woman was asked by a reporter why she had a grocery cart-full of toilet paper. "I don't know", she replied, "I'm grabbing it because everybody else is"

-That would be my Mom. She often would buy stuff unneeded at my house, but alas it was "on special" so she stocked up.

I can't believe that people continue to rush up to me, grab my right hand and kiss it!

I ask them, "Aren't you worried about the Coronavirus?" But they're all too 'struck-dumb' to respond. Hopefully the tears they're shedding wash away any possible contagions.

Or you could always give them the warning about Saucie and what

she would do to them if they kissed you again.

This happens whenever you go use the bathroom! It's like they wait for you to leave!!

elderolddog Wrote:
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> This happens whenever you go use the bathroom!
> It's like they wait for you to leave!!


They do !!!!! I've seen them when they didn't know I was watching.

you start out with a dry cough, within hours you could have a fever above 103, if you just have weakness and cough, if it hasn't morphed quickly, then you don't have covid 19

I read that a good measurement is if you have URI symptoms that are making you feel more ill than a usual cough/cold, then be more aware to monitor your course and seek advice promptly.

Again, the highest risk factors that should prompt you to seek immediate medical assistance would be if you have symptoms/feel ill and you have recently travelled to one of the most highly affected countries or have been in contact with someone who has, or in contact with someone who is confirmed to have the virus (obviously).

Fortunately, public health in North America seems to be doing a great job of tracing contacts to try and keep things contained.

And yes, good point - if any type of symptoms escalate quickly, seek help asap. Also, if you have a high fever you will want to contact your dr, as that is not usual with a common cold, and you will likely welcome some symptomatic relief.

A lot of reassurance is possible if you use common sense and also stay informed.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2020 04:57PM by Nightingale.

We work for the federal govt. We haven't received word one today (the deaths occurred over the weekend).

We have two offices - one downtown in a very busy federal building and one in SeaTac, across the street from the airport. We live in and around King, Snohomish, Pierce, and Thurston counties. A lot of people live in University Place and catch a bus from Fort Lewis to the airport. Other folks take the high speed rail. The govt subsidizes our transportation costs if we carpool or take public transit.

So

We have heard nothing. We work in cubicles, and those in JFB downtown have more of an open floor plan, and people are jammed together.

They need to give everyone a lap top and send them home. Send them home. If for no other reason than to give people peace of mind.

Yes, we're getting kinda scared.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2020 06:53PM by Beth.

It's startling to go from 1 or 2 to 6 deaths in a couple of days (in Washington). I can see why people are getting a bit nervous. Sympathies to the families. So very sad.

There was a news conference with the US VP a little while ago. I missed most of it, due to working. I did hear them say that 4 of the recent deaths in Washington occurred in a "cluster", that is, people from one location (nursing home). That is understandable in that there is closer contact than if you just pass someone on the street, say. It would seem slightly reassuring that it isn't 6 people spread out all over, potentially infecting a larger more diverse group.

One of the more yikes-type pieces of info is that potentially a person could be contagious before they are showing any symptoms; thereby, possibly being a source of contagion unawares. That means they could expose others before they know they should self-isolate. But there's not much you can do about that.

I did hear that many travellers from Iran and China (at least those now in Canada) self-isolated upon their entry/return here and so avoided possibly spreading the virus, until they knew whether they had contracted it or not. That is the kind of personal precaution people can take that can help to contain potential wider spread. Some travellers from the named countries at risk also contacted authorities upon return, a good move to assist in preventing spread. (This was before the extent of the problem was known and more stringent screening implemented I think).

In today's US news, I heard an MD state that medical personnel and first responders are at greater risk than the general population (seems obvious, of course) as their work may bring them into contact with affected people. Too, if they contract the virus then potentially their own circles of family and friends and other colleagues are at risk. For instance, wrt the affected nursing home patients, apparently quite a number of firefighters entered the premises to assist and subsequently all of them had to be isolated. Now a significant number of those are in quarantine (which is a step up from isolation, meaning they are likely displaying symptoms). If you extrapolate out how many people each first responder may be in contact with daily, the numbers of potential spread start getting up there. Same thing for medical staff on the front lines in terms of being in direct contact with infected patients.

Brave, dedicated folks, all.

US medical authorities are saying, again, DO NOT BUY MASKS (or respirators). You don't need them. Medical staff does. Panic buying just creates shortages. (Even my local pharmacies here in BC, so far only 8 cases, have a sign up stating that they're out of hand sanitizer and masks. Now for people who really need masks - good luck).

If a workplace can arrange for people to work from home that could help in many ways, both with decreasing potential contact and with easing anxiety in their workforce, as you suggest, Beth.

It's stressful, definitely. I feel more reassured when I listen for updates on the news and understand what's up. That's about all I can do. But I'm lucky to be in a relatively safe zone. It would take quite a bit to make me panic. But I'm not saying that would never happen. Although staying calm no matter what is a good survival tool.

Thinking of you, Beth. Hey - be safe out there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2020 06:58PM by Nightingale.

If you get the virus is there a cure? Will it go away on its own if you don't die from it? Or are you stuck with the virus for life like the HIV virus.

Warrior71783 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you get the virus is there a cure? Will it go
> away on its own if you don't die from it? Or
> are you stuck with the virus for life like the HIV
> virus.

There is no "cure" - yes, it "goes away on its own" in that many of those affected have had mild cases and go on to recover completely. The only exceptions are those in whom the virus was especially virulent and/or those with underlying complications, such as advanced age, compromised immune system, other underlying medical conditions, all of which can make it harder to shake off an infection.

It does not stick around in your system forever - once you're over it, that's it, as far as I know (but I only know whatever info is being given out via newscasts).

There will be a preventative in the future (hopefully relatively near future) in that scientists/drs/labs are working on coming up with a vaccine as we speak.

There is a lot of room for optimism.

What freaks me out is 6 dead out of 18 known cases. If there are 6 dead, there should be 300 infected. Where are the other 282?

What do you mean?

Or they lied and the mortality rate is 33 percent 6 out of 18 total.

Edited out due to not being a math genius



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2020 11:13AM by Nightingale.

Yes Beth, when it is in your community it is a different thing. We will keep taking the Emergen-C+ and washing hands but I worry a lot about Hubby given his age and that he is working with people that have a VERY good chance of having been exposed. Not seeing any panic but I did buy an extra pack of TP :)

You can never have too much TP.

If you end up with surplus, save it for Mischief Night. :)

Now, for once, I can have a good reason to be thankful for living in the mind numbing Dri-S++ties.

Not to make light of your situation in any way.

We'll get through this. Now that they're getting a better understanding of signs, symptoms, and now that it's out in the wild, we'll learn more. I hope no one else dies.

Dammit, with our DNA being so compatable, I hope Bigfoot/Cain doesn't get covid 19.

I saw an interview with Dr. Anthony Fauci of the NIH on this evening's news. He was very level-headed and balanced in his interview, as you would expect. He stressed that we should not be at the panic point yet, but that there is a possibility this could become a pandemic. He raised the possibility that large events (concerts, etc.) might have to be cancelled if the virus starts to go wide.

He also mentioned the possibility that schools would need to shut down for a period of time. This makes sense to me as I've seen the flu rip through certain schools like a wildfire. It's not at all unusual for specific schools to shut down when a high percentage of the student body and staff get sick.

So I am starting to think through what I will do in that eventuality. I am going to set some extra money aside just in case.

I might be panicking a little bit and have been disinfecting a lot of things today. I transported chinese people going to school here yesterday.

The text goes something like this:

If you're qualified to telework [basically you're not a trainee], come in tomorrow and we'll give you a laptop and all the other stuff you need.

We use two monitors in addition to the laptop - we run several programs at the same time - we also need special dongles and they have to scan bar codes, etc., etc.. Bottom line, everyone is getting gear so they can telework unless their job is to be available to speak to veterans who need in-person help applying for benefits.

The plan is for this to last a week, but I think that's so people have the expectation that we'll have the all-clear by next week. Ha!

The sixth death is the thing that made everyone go oh, no!

I panic from time to time. I have asthma and use a prednisone inhaler. I feel fine, but if I get junk in my lungs, I'll call the doctor. The dog is good to board at the vet, the ducks are fine out 24/7 and forage for most of their food and don't care for their feed, but I'll leave them two 30# feeders and a 15# one in case the squirrels get hungry. The cats will be fine as long as I leave a giant bowl of kibble, and they enjoy drinking out of the toilet.

My guess, if I get sick, is that I'll be examined and sent home. It's supposed to be like a really bad flu. If I feel like I'm coming down with a really bad case of the flu, I'll call ahead and see if I need to be treated.

I guess it'll be good to get this epidemic out of the way.

What can I say?

They heard you! Laptops. Yay. Smart to contact MD promptly if symptoms occur because your lungs. Animals OK. You're on top of things. Way to go.

Being prepared is not a bad thing. Frankly it’s one of those common sense things I liked about the church. If you could just get rid of the crazy parts. Be safe Beth. I’m glad you have a telecommute option. I do too if we end up needing it.

Be safe!

One of my co-workers said, "I just broke up with my boyfriend, and he got to take all the food storage."

:)

"There was a news conference with the US VP a little while ago. I missed most of it, due to working. I did hear them say that 4 of the recent deaths in Washington occurred in a "cluster", that is, people from one location (nursing home). That is understandable in that there is closer contact than if you just pass someone on the street, say. It would seem slightly reassuring that it isn't 6 people spread out all over, potentially infecting a larger more diverse group."

Again, the risk factors for illness and death are age and underlying health issues, as in a nursing home.

So if you are old and/or have significant health issues that compromise immunity, I wouldn't worry much.

Sure, you can stay home, but that applies to other illnesses also.

Likely there has been many more infected than we know about, but they either have no symptoms or mild symptoms.

Here's a good article with some stats. Note the percentages are of known cases - so should be much lower considering asymptomatic or mild cases not included.

https://healthykidshappykids.com/2020/02/27/coronavirus-covid-19/


quote

However, certain populations seem to be more at risk for serious infection and for death. Increasing age seems to be the most important factor, and as mentioned above, children appear relatively spared. In a report released by the Chinese CCDC on February 17, 2020 in the Chinese Journal of Epidemiology, the risk of death increases with age, with being over 80 the highest risk factor. The fatality rate of patients over 80 years old was estimated to be 14.8%. Death in those under 50 appears to be unlikely, with the mortality rate of 40-49 year olds estimated to be 0.4% and 0.2% for patients 10-39 years of age. As noted above, there have been NO deaths in children 0-9 years old. Having a chronic, pre-existing medical condition also significantly increased the risk of death. Without any pre-existing condition, the mortality rate was 0.9%. A history of cardiovascular disease increased the risk to 10.5%. (7)
So like the influenza virus, the elderly and those with underlying chronic medical conditions appear to be most at risk for serious complications and death from COVID-19.

"So if you are old and/or have significant health issues that compromise immunity, I wouldn't worry much."

Meant if you are NOT old or have significant.....