Testing has revealed that 21 people are positive - 19 crew members, 2 passengers.

Not all passengers have been tested yet. They're first testing those with symptoms (which makes perfect sense). So far, not enough test kits. (Over 3000 people!)

The ship is being moved to a "non-commercial" location and quarantine/isolation and further testing are to come.

The cruise ship industry is going to suffer, undoubtedly. But for now, it's the people who are the important focus.

Why, I wonder, is it the crew that is so affected? Then again, we don't know yet how many other passengers will be also.

This is getting to be a Very. Big. Deal.

Best wishes to all. Here's hoping for good outcomes.

I think that cancelling large gatherings is a good and necessary measure. As well as public education so we can take precautions to keep ourselves and others safe and the great medical care we're fortunate to have in North America at least.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/03/06/coronavirus-grand-princess-cruise-passengers-what-we-know/4972973002/



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2020 06:37PM by Nightingale.

21 people test positive for coronavirus on California cruise ship, out of 46 tested so far. That is an amazing total since few folks exhibit symptoms for a few weeks. It will be interesting to see how rapidly the virus has or has not spread on that ship.

ones who came in contact with the man who was on the ship on the prior cruise.

My daughter works for Princess in Alaska, but she isn't on the ships. She is at Denali. She said this is turning out to be a bad year for people signing up for cruises, ALTHOUGH, they are signing up for NEXT YEAR.


No ships go to Alaska until first week of May, so hopefully, it will be contained by then and they'll have tourists by then.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2020 08:05PM by cl2.

So, can I book a cruise cheap?

they are a Petri dish. I couldn't understand why they had left the people on that cruise ship in Japan for so long. They had to have food brought to them by the crew and the crew had to be in contact with everyone else on the ship.

They tend to have a lot of Norovirus on cruise ships. They have hand sanitizer to use before you walk into the food areas. They watch to make sure you use it.

It seems to me that they should just be testing everyone, but I know they can't.

I would assume that cruises will be cheap this summer and the ships will not be full. Easy to get a balcony for a reduced price.

WARRIOR, if you start getting symptoms of a cold, then call your doctor!!

I've been sick for 6 weeks now, but the cough is gone. Still running a fever. Can't figure it out. I'll go to the doctor eventually if it doesn't end. At least symptoms are gradually going away.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2020 10:10AM by cl2.

I had a long-running virus once. It was about six weeks as well. My physician thought it was two viruses that ran consecutively, but to me, there was one clear arc that played out over a long period of time. Working with children each day, I have had some weird little bugs over the years. But this year, my immunity seems to be bullet-proof.

I hope that you feel better soon. Sickness over a number of weeks can really wear you down.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2020 10:59AM by summer.

There are now three cases in Maryland with seven tests pending. Two of the three patients were on a Nile river cruise (there are also associated cases in Texas.)

A new report here says that two residents of Tarzana[*], about ten miles away, are confirmed coronavirus cases.

[*] Tarzana is indeed named for Tarzan, the fictional jungle hero character. Tarzan's creator, author Edgar Rice Burroughs, lived on a San Fernando Valley ranch in the part of the Valley now known as Tarzana.]

We went shopping today, and the shelves and aisles are pretty bare, with posted restrictions on how much, and what, a given customer is allowed to buy of the goods which are disappearing fastest.

The ambient feeling is a lot like it felt in Europe during WWII, when the impending Nazi threat was absolutely real, but no one knew exactly how it would play out in any particular area.

I hope your area doesn't become affected, Nightingale. Please keep as safe as you can.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2020 07:14PM by Tevai.

Thanks Tevai. 21 cases in BC. 2 in my health region (which is a geographical area) & a few in the next nearest region. I've had a URI all week so it's top of mind for me but mine is just a cold. Still, I'm on the hunt for hand sanitizer, elusive to date.

Just heard a health expert say he'd never take a cruise. Petri dish, he said.

How is BC handling those 12 cases? Have they sent them home to get on with it? Have they isolated them for treatment? Have they even set up specific isolation facilities, if so where, how? If they have, how many will they be able to handle? 50, 100, a thousand? I do not denigrate testing but I see little preparation for treatment on a large scale show that be needed. No cases are reported here in Idaho. I think their response is to keep their fingers crossed and hope for the best.

Still heading to Hawaii on Sunday. My brother said if I die there my friends can toss me in a volcano and save the cost of shipping me home.

Well there's always the volcano option if worst comes to worst.

Why are people so thrilled at the prospect of a dystopian society?

Panic du jour.

CateS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why are people so thrilled at the prospect of a
> dystopian society?
>
> Panic du jour.

Where did you get the idea that people are "thrilled" in response to a genuine, now global, emergency?

No wonder the toilet paper disappeared again from Trader Joe's. I seem to be in coronavirus central! On the positive side, roads have been less congested lately as more people are working from home.

I went to the theater to see a movie today. There was quite a crowd, mostly older people, so although the empty shelves at the grocery stores indicate there is panic, people are still frequenting movie theaters and restaurants. I can't afford to be quarantined for two weeks.

cl2, if I mention your daughter's name can I get an additional discount?

This is a great time to invest in the market. Wish I had some free cash[*], but I'm fully (in)vested, so I'll just have to wait out the panic.

[*] "free cash" --now there's an oxymoron for you!

> This is a great time to invest in the market. Wish
> I had some free cash[*], but I'm fully (in)vested,
> so I'll just have to wait out the panic.

Those two sentences are contradictory, are they not? Because calling a bottom to the market now requires a degree of prescience belied by the fact that you kept all your money in the market on the way down.

Advice is worth what you pay for it--at the very most.

We shall see. I'm one who mostly rides out market drops. The market eventually recovers, hopefully sooner not later. What I look for is good fund management which outperforms its benchmark (at least) and an aggregate market index (Morningstar US Market Index) (preferably).

And just for the record, I have paid good money for bad advice.

Virtually everyone who has paid for market advice has been had. The research shows conclusively that on a risk-adjusted basis, there are no superior managers.

Over the course of my life, I invested about 25% of my savings to paying down debt (mortgage, auto, whatever). The rest was divied up between an S&P Index, small-cap growth, and emerging markets. I moved the target area of emerging markets from time to time, sometimes Asia, or Latin America, or elsewhere.

Worked for me.

Edit: spelling correction



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2020 11:31PM by caffiend.

2/3 Aloe vera jell + 1/3 alcohol = hand sanitizer.

Fights bacteria, though--not viruses.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2020 11:35PM by kathleen.

It's antibiotics that don't kill viruses. Alcohol will kill anything in high enough concentration, though 70% alcohol watered down an additional 2/3rds by aloe vera might be too diluted.

Thanks, BOJ, good to know.

Makes me wonder how much disinfectant power is really left in the commercial hand sanitizer after it's produced.

From what I saw on NIH.GOV website, the alcohol concentration should be 60% or higher. Also, alcohol tends to eat rubber and certain plastics, which can be a concern if you use it to wipe down surfaces regularly.

Speaking from experience, I once spilled some alcohol on a tube of ointment. It instantly dissolved the lettering on the tube. :(

The first people to test should be those with the worst symptoms so you know whether or not to isolate them with the COVID-19 people. And then you should test the crew so you know which workers you need to sideline out of the way of interacting with passengers and which crew you can have work with passengers (with proper protections) & then bring in replacement crew (or deputize passengers) to make sure services are being provided. Finally you test everyone else in order of most severe symptoms.

Excuse my stupidity but if they have symptoms why do they need to be tested? Our national preparedness seems to be based on the availability of test kits as if that is a solution. Going to a doctor,s office or to a hospital while showing symptoms just spreads the virus. From what I hear if you go down with it you are on your own. Where are the isolation units being set up? Where do people go who are sick. Do they just stay home and infect the rest of their family members? Compared to what I heard in the UK on my recent trip the response here is pathetic.

+1

The reason you should be tested if you have symptoms is that the symptoms are similar to the common cold and the seasonal flu. It's vital to verify whether a person has COVID-19 or not as public health measures have to be implemented if so. You would have to be isolated. Also, your family members would have to be tested to ensure they have not contracted the virus as well. One of the most serious issues is that a person could have it but not be showing symptoms yet and thereby could unknowingly be spreading it to other people. Or someone could think they just have a cold and not be isolating themselves, thereby spreading it around the community.

Symptoms of common cold: Sore throat, runny nose, sneezing, mild cough.

Symptoms of COVID-19: Same as above but with a more severe cough, as well as fever and shortness of breath.

COVID-19 causes pneumonia. The common cold does not usually do so. Unfortunately, the pneumonia in COVID does not respond to antibiotics, apparently. (Now *that* is scary).

Public Health here is instructing us to seek medical help if we have the URI (upper respiratory system; i.e. cold) symptoms but with the addition of a significant cough and/or fever. Fever seems to be the signature symptom that differentiates the two illnesses and is a signal to call your MD.

We are also asked not to just show up at ER or a medical clinic but to call ahead and state our symptoms and follow their instructions so we can receive medical assistance but without spreading the virus to others, especially people in medical environments who may already be ill, which is a factor that makes them more susceptible to contracting coronavirus and could make them more sick with it. Too, health care workers must take care not to contract it themselves by unprotected close proximity to an infected person.

Apparently, most people with the coronavirus have a mild case. If you are under 60 you are less at risk of being a severe case or of developing complications. Again, it's seniors and those who are immunosuppressed or living with chronic health conditions such as heart disease, diabetes and lung conditions who are at risk of more severe infection that will need medical attention.

Basic precautions and clean hands will go a long way to helping us protect ourselves. But perhaps we don't yet know everything about it. Health officials I've heard seek to allay unfounded fears yet sound notes of caution too. Nobody knows yet what all might happen. I'm reading about the Eiffel Tower right now. That's about as close as I'll get for a good long while, it seems.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2020 01:41AM by Nightingale.

Nightingale, would getting a pneumonia shot be useful?

A pneumonia shot will protect against bacterial pneumonia, which
is all fine and dandy. Bacterial pneumonia would be a very bad secondary infection to develop. Covid-19 however causes viral pneumonia as a primary symptom. The shot would reduce one problem, but not the other.

Still, why would you not want to protect against bacterial pneumonia? It's no walk in the park.

Thanks for the information. My medical provider has not mentioned getting a pneumonia shot yet (I'm in my early 60s.) I'll inquire when I see her next.

Yes, thanks, BoJ. Exactly correct.

I am not an expert by any means. But I've been voraciously reading about it all. It's fascinating to me, from the medical side. Tragic from the human side. I feel for the families who have lost people and for all those in hospital and nursing homes who are cut off from family due to quarantine/isolation procedures.

I had heard that COVID-19 causes pneumonia. I hadn't read until yesterday that the virus is resistant to antibiotics. That is quite alarming. Bad enough that vulnerable folks are contracting the virus and then developing pneumonia. To have no known drug therapy at this point is the stuff of nightmares.

No wonder authorities are trying to wall off the outbreaks. Unfortunately, some people get caught unawares and become entangled in the epicentre of these things.

Staying informed and taking reasonable health and safety precautions will go a ways to hopefully keeping ourselves safe.

I believe ALL viruses are unaffected by antibiotics. As far as I know, giving antibiotics for a viral infection only serves two purposes. One, it can prevent a secondary bacterial infection when your immune system is already a bit battered. Two, it will shut up patients up who insist on being given an antibiotic, medical contraindication be damned. That’s the opposite side of the coin from the antivaxxer crowd!!

Yes, true. Good point. Antibiotics wouldn't kill coronavirus but I thought they would clear the pneumonia that COVID causes. However, not so. And, as I understand it, the pneumonia is what is killing the elderly patients.

On a different note: The problem with taking antibiotics when you don't need them (i.e. if they aren't the correct medication for what ails you) is that overuse/using them when not needed, can render bacteria resistant over time. Then antibiotics in general would cease to be as effective. Yet another scary thought.

I would hope that an MD would *not* prescribe antibiotics just because a patient was clamouring for them. That is the worst possible action the dr can take.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That’s the opposite
> side of the coin from the antivaxxer crowd!!

A guest on a radio program said the other day that the antivaxxers are being totally silent re coronavirus.

Interesting point.

Right when scientists are scrambling to come up with a vaccine against coronavirus. Which will undoubtedly, and demonstrably, save lives.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2020 05:23PM by Nightingale.

anon now Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>....(or deputize passengers)
> to make sure services are being provided.

I swear one of my passengers had the virus. I called it a night right after. Hopefully i do not have it.

Anyone returning from or going on a cruise from the area must travel to another port, usually LA or Seattle.

Apparently, San Francisco temporarily opened the port at this time specially in an effort to cooperate with health officials during this crisis.

They opened cruse ports a few years ago and now have cruises coming and going regularly.

https://sfport.com/cruise-0

I've had a cold all week, as I've mentioned, so was happy on Friday to be feeling quite a bit better and I went out for dinner with my sister. No fancy restaurant. Just take-out at a big mall. Not my favourite places at the best of times. Then sis went to Walmart for provisions. No hoarding or panic buying, although she did get toilet paper, lol.

I was looking for hand sanitizer, which I've been using since way before we'd ever heard of coronavirus. Twelve places at last count where I've looked and they've been sold out. I always keep a big bottle in my car to at least clean my hands after being in shops and handling grocery carts but I haven't been able to replenish my empty bottle for a couple of weeks now. Too, I haven't been able to find masks. Not for the virus but I wanted one while I was cleaning the crawl spaces and basement a few weeks ago so I wouldn't breathe in any nasties. This was at the beginning of the virus entering our consciousness. All the local shops were already sold out of masks right when I wanted one and that hasn't changed since. There are some COVID patients in our general area, in hospitals, so I guess it came early to people's awareness and the result was instant shortages of masks and sanitizers.

I was surprised, though, that Walmart had neither last night. But all the shops have signs up saying they are out of both supplies. Walmart did have a sale on of medical examination-type gloves. I nearly bought a box but then thought that was over-the-top and put it back. Then today I see that in China at least, shoppers are indeed wearing gloves. So too was the reporter covering that story. Maybe that will come to be a thing.

I get claustrophobic in malls and sure enough last night after tromping around the whole place with sister, who is a shopper extraordinaire - she loves it, I hate it - I started feeling the urgent need to get some air. I was hurrying along to the exit when suddenly I started coughing uncontrollably and my first thought was oh no I thought my cold was getting better but it's back with a vengeance, second, irrational, thought was yikes - bad cough = need medical advice re corona. Then I started feeling short of breath and the coughing was intensifying. But then I heard a lot of other people harshly coughing all around me and they started streaming towards the exit which, mercifully, was nearby. My initial, irrational, thought was that we've all caught the virus simultaneously and it's gonna be really bad. Panic can surge at such a moment. But then someone behind me said "it's pepper spray". Ordinarily not a soothing thought but in this case it was a relief.

Not being able to catch your breath is terrifying. Sis called out to a security guard who was heading in as we were exiting and said that someone had let off pepper spray inside and he nodded. "We're dealing with an incident" he replied. "Everybody's coughing" I *helpfully* said and he nodded and smiled yeah. I realized afterwards that was a pretty unnecessary piece of information for me to impart as so many people were obviously hacking all over the place.

I said outside that I thought it was awful that security would have used pepper spray in an enclosed mall and choked everybody but sis said it was likely not them that did it - they were just dealing with some random person who had sprayed it, for reasons unknown.

Anyway, thank goodness for good, clean air. It helped to settle us all down.

I can see why people panic - it's kind of a survival instinct at times - and yet in the end it doesn't serve one well as rational thinking is the best approach to getting out of tricky situations in good shape.

Be informed.

Stay calm.

Take decisive, yet rational action.

I think those are good principles to live by. Even in an epidemic or other scary emergency situation.

But still, I might go back for the gloves. :)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2020 06:03PM by Nightingale.

Check for instructions on the Net or with your provider. It's a bit tricky, apparently. Don't get the plugs wet - or something like that.

Apparently, most phones tested have high E. coli counts.

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Do you really need to use your phone in the bathroom?

This goes into the category of watch what you're touching. (Your own phone as well as those of others).

And don't touch your face!

And wash your hands!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2020 04:59PM by Nightingale.

2 are elderly folks in a nursing home - their contact was an infected staff member - one of the worst dreads as that staff person would be in close contact with many of the elderly residents, and by extension, any family members/visitors they are in contact with, and so on.

2 are recent travellers to Iran, one of the countries with an outbreak.

2 are from the cruise ship Grand Princess.

The Provincial Health Officer made the announcement today, teary-eyed, very concerned about the nursing home residents - very high risk group - plus the staff - in contact with many more patients and visitors.

The Provincial Health Minister stated firmly that he would recommend that anyone with plans to go on a cruise should cancel - this is brutal for the cruise lines and associated business to hear but this is the reality of the current situation.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6645114/coronavirus-bc-cases-update-march-7/


Recently too, insurance companies have announced that they will not cover trip cancellations due to COVID-19. I read of one elderly man who spent $10,000.00 on a cruise for himself and his wife and now they are afraid to go but won't get their money back from their travel insurance. That is brutal. Especially when provincial and federal government representatives are advising people to stay home.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/major-canadian-travel-insurers-stop-covering-coronavirus-trip-cancellations-1.4840391


I just heard too, for the first time, that in addition to advising against large gatherings, officials are specifically stating to stay away from "worship services".

Yow. You can't help but feel a ramp-up of concern. It's a whole new way of looking at how to live your life. They've stated they're not even going to say that things will get better with spring. Flu season can last into May anyway. With this coronavirus, who knows what's up. I guess we'll find out.

Some guy on the radio today said he's asking government should I go out, should I stay home, should I buy toilet paper...? People make jokes, even in times of plague, and you can laugh, but then the grave situation is still before you. And it feels bad to laugh when people are ill and worse.

Maybe things have changed forever now...

IMO concern needs to be ramped up. If Covid 19 can be contained this spring, then all will be well. If it re-emerges next fall, all bets are off. The 1918 flu pandemic first emerged in spring of 1918, but the deaths started to sharply mount the following October, and then continued on into winter/spring of 1919.

The WHO announced a 3.4% death rate from Covid 19 thus far, which is astoundingly high. Compare that to a normal 0.1% death rate from seasonal flu, and approximately 1.46% death rate from the 1918 flu pandemic (based on figures from the CDC.) The 1918 flu killed appx. 675,000 people in the U.S. alone, and about 50 million worldwide. Project from those figures, and we might be looking at up to 1.5 million deaths in the U.S. *if* Covid 19 persists through the next year.

https://www.popsci.com/story/health/covid-19-coronavirus-mortality/?utm_medium=syndication&utm_source=msnarticles

Best to get that beast under control *now*.

ETA -- figures coming out of China indicate a 1.4% overall death rate for those without pre-existing conditions. The chief risk appears to be for those age 50 and older.

https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/fbt49e/the_who_sent_25_international_experts_to_china/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2020 11:07AM by summer.

I don't think it is containable at this point. China is, in my surmise, lying about having achieved control over the illness; South Korea, Iran, and Italy are de facto colossal petri dishes; North Korea is presumably an incubator for the illness, and the United States is officially in "I'm not concerned at all" self-denial--one wouldn't want to let those people off the cruise ship in California, we are told, because that would increase the numbers of infected people in the United States. That last is almost a Mormon degree of focus on quantitative appearance over substance.

Meanwhile a friend who is a senior executive at a national hospital chain told me yesterday that the chain has admitted 300 patients, not publicly acknowledged, who almost certainly have the disease. Apparently several West Coast hospital groups have given up on Washington and are developing their own test kits.

What I'm told is that as the profession gets a better sense of how many people are infected, the 3.4% number will fall due to a bigger denominator. But it will almost inevitably be higher than the 0.1% figure for influenza. So unless this illness reveals seasonality and dies out in the late spring, it will end up becoming endemic like an intense version of the flu. We'll learn to live with it, taking annual vaccinations that are more or less effective and accepting as inevitable a significant number of people every year.

That doesn't mean this isn't a tragedy, nor that it isn't a major problem now, when there is no vaccine and people and healthcare providers are understandably anxious about the appallingly feckless national response to a serious threat. Meanwhile the economic damage is already immense. Ironically, this will affect the November election since the economic numbers will be quite disappointing. Lots of people are going to lose their jobs over this.

I hope the 1918 precedent is overblown. A major cause of that disaster was World War One, which left huge numbers of people suffering from malnutrition and depressed immune systems at a time when governments couldn't even get food and water to their peoples let alone medical care. I guess everything depends on the combination of transmissibility and mortality. If the latter stays near 3.4%, 50 million dead this year is conceivable before the world settles into a new pattern of living with the disease in endemic form.

The human toll medically is, obviously, the most crucial and tragic part of this.

I agree that the mortality % looks huge when the patient count is relatively low. I've heard experts say that we will get a more accurate % when they have a better idea of the overall number of cases. Still, as you say, it will be significant.

A TV segment confused me somewhat today, saying that you don't have to worry about someone coughing or sneezing in your vicinity as long as you stay six feet away from them. First, you don't necessarily know ahead of time that someone is going to sneeze nearby. Second, the droplets (the main mode of contamination) do travel through the air - aren't we told to beware of that? Third, for the first time ever I've been extra cautious about surfaces that may be contaminated - it really got my attention when they said that COVID-19 can live on surfaces for unknown periods of time. So, infected droplets in the air, settling onto surfaces you may touch unawares. I wouldn't tout the 6-foot gap as any great prevention method, although I guess it's better than nothing.

And sure, tell us to beware of surfaces and then announce a severe shortage of hand sanitizer!

I know there's a limit to what governments and medics can do but hopefully we can at least get clear, complete, responsible information (which I do believe that so far we get in Canada at least). It's not their fault that this thing seemed to spring up from nowhere and people panicked and bought up all the toilet paper, which seems silly and funny but conveys the sense of frustration, confusion and panic that people understandably feel when faced with something new, unexpected and scary.

I am interested anyway in good sanitation, partly due to getting so many colds in the past year, and have for the first time ever been thinking more carefully about the germs around and about, not limited to COVID. That's why I've had hand sanitizer in my car for a couple of yrs, before I'd ever heard of this coronavirus. Things you don't necessarily think about, like handles of shopping carts, buttons on bank machines, door handles, countertops and tables in fast food outlets and restaurants. I could go on. I sure do notice, too, that while fast food folks try to be sanitary, some of them don't have a clue. Sure, they may wipe down the counter. But using a cloth they may not have washed their entire shift. Dirt begets dirt. Germs laugh and skip and hop all over the place. My least favourite is when you go to a sandwich shop and they sure enough put on their little plastic gloves to serve you but then their bare wrists or forearms or, worse, clothing, drags over top of your food. Or they store knives in standing water for their entire shift and use them to cut your bread. YOW. Especially I notice, as I order vegetarian, the cross-contamination between cutlery, gloves, counters, hands and meat with my veggies. Ack! I tell them every time. Surely they've labelled me their most annoying customer. The best way to register discontent is the one I've taken lately, even before COVID - vote with my feet - don't go back. But my point is that they try, they just don't completely understand the principles of asepsis.

Now with COVID, one outcome will surely be to bring disease control to front of mind for everybody going forward. I already notice that people don't shake hands as they did. It'll take all of us to get through it and come out OK on the other side. It'll be tougher on some than others. And very tough indeed for those whose family members succumb to the virus. Being in the front lines of the outbreak they didn't have a chance.


LW says: "Lots of people are going to lose their jobs over this."

Agree. Can you imagine the fallout of a government minister stating unequivocally that he recommends people do not take cruises, as our provincial minister said yesterday? The cruise industry is huge in B.C. They will take a big hit. At least until this all settles out and maybe people forget a little or else decide at some point to take a chance again.

Also, once some employers see advantages to work from home, including perhaps lower overheads, they may change their approaches entirely, forever, and perhaps trim down on numbers of employees or pay them less or both, etc.

This could be the start of major changes in the workforce and many other segments of our society. Maybe we will never get back to holding huge public events. Although with the advent of an effective vaccine for COVID-19, now in the works, perhaps this too shall pass. Although the lessons will likely stay with us for a long while. As well as the gigantic wake-up call we're getting over all this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2020 03:57PM by Nightingale.

Mathematician Adam Kucharski of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine studies the outbreaks of serious diseases. He believes that the death rate will settle down somewhere between 0.5%- 2.0% (still impressive numbers.)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/05/health/coronavirus-deaths-rates.html

Most also enjoy throwing out ideas and getting enthusiastic responses. I'd suggest we wait before stating conclusions. This threat is new in our country and no one knows yet how it will develop. Let's try to relax, take precautions, but not panic, not listen to gossip, or assume the worst. Let's let the facts unfold and realities become clear before we assume conclusions which may or may not play out.

Thank you Nightingale for sharing your professional opinions and the information you've learned.

Do you think the CDC is an inappropriate source of information?

My personal opinion is that we are well past the "wait and see" stage. We have a major European country, Italy, shut down all schools and universities for two weeks. We have video on the news of health care workers wearing full hazmat suits while transferring patients, etc.

I'm not calling for panic, but instead, planning and preparation. Since the situation is evolving, there should be a variety of contingencies. It seems to me that a good first step would be to remove barriers to testing and to increase testing (along with the availability of test kits.) For instance the governor of Maryland has waived all copays and referrals for tests. This needs to be national policy.

There need to be designated centers for testing. Even now, people are being shuffled around. People need to know where they can go if they think they were exposed and may be carriers and/or sick. And the parameters for who is being tested need to be loosened.

That would be a start. But there needs to be a comprehensive plan in place soon.

I forgot to mention that one of the newscasts last night mentioned that people should reconsider attending "worship services". I can't recall if that was in the US or in Canada. I was surprised they would specifically state that as something to avoid but it makes sense - any large gathering.

It seems in that case that GC should definitely be cancelled. To date the Mormon leaders have only said that nobody from outside the US should attend. Maybe they will soon say we will just beam it out to everybody. They have a chance to take the lead on putting common sense ahead of religious ritual. I hope they do the right thing.

So today my local supermarkets *were* completely out of stock with toilet paper. It started as a joke, now a reality that itself sparks panic as people see entire aisles full of emptiness.

And maybe you're not panic buying. Maybe you just so happen to be out of TP.

Like how I ran out of hand sanitizer right when everybody suddenly wanted it and ran down the supply. Or how I wanted one mask so I could clean up extra dirt and dust without breathing it in. Now it's embarrassing to ask for either item as you just get a negative shake of the head and a shrug and you feel like a lemming or a panic-buyer but really you're just being practical over something you actually need within reason. I regret now that I purposely *didn't* "panic" and buy extra TP the last few times I was in the market. Because yeah, not something you want to run out of. I was kind of laughing about it before. Uh...

I should make it clear that I am not speaking from any special professional expertise (but thanks, Cheryl). It's just that I'm interested in the science of these things and also like to be informed about medical issues. I only know what I've read and yes, my nursing training helps me to understand most of it.

But really, the most important thing to remember, and do, is the simple handwashing, which sounds so basic it doesn't seem like enough information and yet it's a lifesaver, in many situations.

Thanks for all the information, everybody, and hopefully this too shall pass, eventually. They're saying that SARS was much more deadly than COVID-19 and yet COVID is the one that's in our faces right now (literally!) and so seems pretty darn scary.

To me, not having large gatherings is a no-brainer under the circumstances. School systems in my area have cancelled all field trips (including international trips,) which makes sense to me. Believe it or not, my school system actually has a problem providing soap. My last school did not provide it (because the students routinely destroyed the soap cannisters.) I asked parents to send in bottles at the beginning of the year, but when we ran out, I provided it. So schools and public facilities providing adequate supplies of soap and hand sanitizer would be a good start.

Drink out of anything refillable: Like at Costco, where you fill your own cup and can return to where germy cups can be repeatedly filled.

Allow strangers to put their hands on my face. A fellow at a kiosk in the mall wanted to improve my “bags, dark circles and wrinkles” with some cream he was selling and insisted on putting some under my eyes. Politely saying, "No thank you" wasn't enough. I was somewhat cornered and unable to just walk off, and had to finally say, "Please, I don’t anyone to touch me nowadays." He agreed.

Hugging everybody: Thank God that might be a thing of the past.


BTW: Costco is no longer giving free samples, where ppl take food off the same tray. Like Mormons with varying cleanliness, take bread and water from the same tray and then pass it on. I never understood that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2020 08:00AM by kathleen.

Choices are rationality or panic.

Gossip is sometimes factual, but not always. Listen if it suits you. Feel free to brush it off until there's proof.

Does that mean do nothing and take no precautions? No, I wouldn't think so. Do take precautions, but maintain rationality and a positive attitude.

It's all very well for people to say the virus might go away when the weather warms up but there are a heck of a lot of people who live in the southern hemisphere..we are going into cooler or even colder weather.

The city I live in ( Perth, Australia) has announced three walk in clinics for testing, in major hospitals, for anyone who has been in an area with the virus or in possible contact with someone who has tested positive. Naturally the tests are free.

I'm glad that Oz is preparing. I wish the same for all of the other people south of the equator. I hope we manage to keep it up here.

Be well, lindy.

As of 11 AM ( East Coast Aus time) there were 80 confirmed cases in Australia. My state has just 2 or 3 at the moment.
However we have a woman who flew in to Perth from one of the hot spots, felt unwell so was tested but before the result came through she took herself off to an orchestra concert in Perth's main concert hall. I cannot believe the stupidity as her test was positive.

A startling lack of common sense.

I am very sorry for all those who might now be affected. (One of the very few things I know about Perth is that it high on the list of preferred destinations for South Africans seeking new home countries.)

Although the details are different, we had something similar happen yesterday in Washington, D.C.--and the result is that around 500 people are now in a similar situation to those who live in or near Perth. (A priest shook hands with about 500 parishioners after services yesterday.)

:(