Here's a challengs:

What single passage in Mormon scripture do you think deals the most devastating blow to Mormonism? (Please, no scatter-shot answers like "the whole thing," or "the whole Bom" or "Book of Abraham") A passage of just a few verses, please.

Here's my favorite: D&C 121:36-37, explaining how priesthood authority is lost. I think it's a double-edged sword that strikes right into the heart of Mormonism. For my reasoning, see "Priesthood Authority" at http://packham.n4m.org/authority.htm

An excellent runner-up is 3 Nephi 11:38, 40, (also at D&C 10:68) saying that anything in the way of doctrine that is more than faith, repentance and baptism is "of the devil" (such as paying tithing, obeying commandments, etc.?) and those who claim more or less will end up in hell.

What is you favorite single most damning passage?

How about how Joseph Smith thought Elias and Elijah were 2 different people?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LKbeCFQjbo

The Introduction to the Doctrine and Covenants talks about the contents of the Doctrine and Covenants which Joseph Smith claimed to receive by revelation from God. It says that priesthood keys were conferred by Moses, Elijah, and Elias to Joseph Smith. What this passage fails to realize is that Elijah and Elias are the same person. Sometimes names are written differently in the New Testament than they are in the Old Testament because of the change in languages. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew and the New Testament was written in Greek. The name Elijah and Elias is the exact same name. Elijah is from the Hebrew Old Testament and Elias is from the Greek New Testament. Another example of this is when Jeremiah the prophet of the Old Testament is called Jeremy the prophet in the New Testament. This can be confusing and it confused Joseph Smith who only understood English. People who speak multiple languages fluently will completely understand how this could happen but people like Joseph Smith only understood English and so thought Elijah and Elias were two different people.

A common modern example would be if you thought your neighbor had two sons because sometimes they called their son John and other times they called him Juan. This happens all the time in bilingual families. John is the English version of Juan. Another example is when Mormons talk to people in foreign countries about Joseph Smith sometimes they call him Joseph Smith and other times they translate his name and call him something like Jose Smith. Jose is the Spanish version of Joseph.

The problem is that this mistake is reflected in the revelations of Joseph Smith in the Doctrine and Covenants. The introduction indicates that Elijah and Elias are two different people because that is the way the revelations are written in the Doctrine and Covenants. In D & C 67: 6-9 it gives different gifts and attributions for Elijah than it does for Elias as if they were two different people.

In D & C 110: 12 -15 it says Elias appeared then after that Elijah appeared as if they were two completely different people. It doesnt make sense to have a person appear then disappear then reappear and think that same person is another person just because his name was translated from Greek to English.

In D & C 138: 45-47 it says that Elias was on the mount of Transfiguration which is true according to the New Testament in Matthew 17: 4 which reads "Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias." The problem for Joseph Smith comes in where it says in verse 46 that Elijah was also there. Elias and Elijah are the same person so it wouldnt make any sense to say they were both there at the same time. Joseph Smith read the New Testament and saw that Elias was at the Mount of Transfiguration but wanted to insert Elijah there too not understanding that Elias was Elijah. This shows how little Joseph Smith understood the Bible and how he was just making things up as he went along.

This can only lead to the conclusion that Joseph Smith was a false prophet who made up his revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants. This kind of mistake only comes from cheap rip offs.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2020 06:52PM by isthechurchtrue.

"They rob the poor because of their fine sanctuaries ...." (II Nephi 28:13)

So the author of the BoM claims "churches have become corrupted" and these churches are being called out for spending inordinate amounts of money on expensive structures rather than on helping the needy.

Such wonderful irony!

Where the Jaredites sailed 344 days to the promised land which = 2 and one half times around the earth at the equator



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2020 11:35PM by thedesertrat1.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/morm/9.22-24?lang=eng

This is copied from the “long ending of Mark“. So called because the last 10 or so verses of Mark are a known forgery added somewhere during the second to fourth century CE. Likely later than earlier.

Why is an ancient prophet, translated in modern times by the power of God, quoting a spurious and false forged addition to the New Testament?

This was always my favorite scripture when I was still Mormon.

I used to be able to quote it from memory. I would do so whenever I felt bullied by a so called PH holder.

This would ALWAYS shut them up. First of all, most were stunned that I knew the scriptures better than they did. It wasn't something I talked about at church. It was personal to me. Also, not talking about it saved me from many a calling I didn't want.

It is better that one man perish than a nation dwindle in unbelief.

So - Nephi killed a drunk and burglarized his house and stole a book.Then ran away to a land across the Ocean, started a new Civilization and they dwindled in unbelief...

There is a passage damning secret combinations in 2 nephi i think?

D&C 77:6

This verse puts Mormons in bed with young earthers.

No clue...never read any of them..hated scripture being quoted in church

Mormon scripture 'ain't so bad', it's the almost Total Disconnect between what's written & the everyday (lack of ) application that permeates ChurchCo life.


It's almost like they encourage hypocrisy (OMG!)

I have a hard time with a book that opens with a cold-blooded murder. Even the sanguinary authors of the OT held off on the homicide for a few chapters.

Love One Another

But I tried to find where it said that in a Mormon scripture rather than that Bible thing and I couldn't.

Finally I found a blog that listed "45 Scriptures about love from the Bible and the Book of Mormon."

Interesting.


90% of the list was from the Bible. The few verses from the BoM had the word "love" tucked in there somewhere, but the verses weren't really much about love at all except as tied to showing your faith by loving god enough to OBEY him.


Other I could find seemed to be love from God as a reason to punish. You know, the usual Mormon stuff.



Love One Another as I have loved you so much that I drowned you, and killed your first borns, and gave you boils, and frogs and dark skin, and tortured your gays, and made your women servile, and just for fun to show you how much control I have made you pay me enough to be allowed to do the Hokey Pokey in silly outfits of White with green aprons just for fun. Geez, you idiots even tied your hats to your shoulders and then pretended to slit your own throats. Man, I am goooooood!

Thus saith the Lord.

definitely not for meaning. I read the BofM plenty of times.

There is a scripture about power. It slips my mind the rest of it, but maybe someone can figure it out. Something to do with being humble, but how men get some power and abuse it. Saying that good mormon men wouldn't do that. What a joke that is! I think of that scripture often when I hear of what the leaders are saying or doing.

Are you thinking of D&C 121:39?

We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.

‘I the Lord am bound when ye do what I say.’ That's the biggest laugh of my life.

Not an expert.

I think most of Nephi II represents a problem. Much of it is taken from Isiah. When the KJV was translated, there were words used to join sentences or otherwise help it make sense. Those words are in italics. Verses in the BOM that are often close to word-for-word copies exclude the italics. If the BOM was taken from the brass plates (supposedly original), how are those words explained?

I'm going out on a limb here, but since some of the major ones have been noted already try this, from Ether 1: "And Kim was the son of Morianton."

'Kim' is either anglo-saxon or Korean, not ancient mideast or "adamic". It's a tiny little thing, but to me sticks out like finding the name 'Chrysler' in the BoM (which I'm positive apologists would find an excuse for).

How about D & C Section 132?????

I’m surprised that section 132 doesn’t cause a WTF moment with more Mormons. I can think of three possible reasons:

1) most Mormons have never read Doctrine and Covenants.
2) those who try to read it give up long before section 132.
3) those who persist and read all of it have their brains numbed by the time they get to section 132.

I never liked Natural Man Is An Enemy To God [read Natural, Normal (Wo)Man is an Enemy of Mormonism].

NATURAL MAN is a Friend of God. Friend of Dog. Friend of everyone...

Unnatural 'church' is an Enemy to Mankind. All kinds! (P.S. as I typed that, "all kinds" [of cats] the lady in a song on the radio said...)

Mine would be Helaman 6:21-31, specifically:22
It talks about secret signs and secret words, which is exactly what happens in the temple endowment ceremonies, especially prior to 1990 with the penalties and oaths.
I participated in those penalties and oaths, and I realized recently that those things have ties to the MMM and the oaths that the murderers made to each other after "burying" the victims.
It's all the opposite of what Jesus said in the NT, which TSCC claims to follow John 18:20 (He never said anything in secret).

From the BofM

"3 Nephi 9:4 And it came to pass that on the morrow, when the multitude was gathered together, behold Nephi and his brother whom he had raised from the dead, whose name was Timothy, and also his son, whose name was Jonas, and also Mathoni, and Mathonihah, his brother, and Kumen, and Kumenonhi, and Jeremiah, and Shemnon, and Jonas, and Zedekiah, and Isaiah: now these were the names of the disciples whom Jesus had chosen."

Stupid me. It troubled me when reading the BofM the anachronism of the name Timothy. I remember as an investigator pausing for a bit when reading that passage. There are many other anachronisms, but this one struck me the most. Sadly, I still remember that today.