I will not run away.
I will meet you on the field of battle and I will win.
The LDS “faith” ran away. Chickenshits the lot.
I will meet you and I will win.
Because I come from God.
God lives through me.
When I die, God will live through others.
How did Joseph do with such utter tomfoolery?
Well, we’re seeing it now.
Saints my ass.
As long as God lives within me, you cannot touch me.
Go ahead and try.

I know who created you and why. They don’t know God. They will. I’m just telling you that you will lose. And so will they.

Famous last words

Such brave words. You're really outdoing Joseph's tomfoolery.

bradley:

I don't understand your post.

What I DO understand is that washing your own hands, with soap if at all possible, is the most important thing (outside of breathing) that anyone, anywhere on this planet, can do right now.

Washing your hands can keep not only YOU alive, it can keep others alive as well.

NOT washing your hands can kill you, and it can kill others you have never met, will never know, and who you don't even know their names.

Right now, you literally have the power of life and death in your own hands.

Wash your hands to preserve life.

Do not kill.

No, faith is the antidote. That’s the point. It’s the snakes and the brass serpent all over again. You of all people should know that unless Judaism has lost its meaning and needs a refresher course.

Do you mind an “F bomb”? This virus needs one. It was created by man to solve problems also created by man.

Corona virus can land all it wants. It will find no purchase. That’s what it’s here for, so thank you for coming and keeping me honest. Now faith isn’t optional. Wouldn’t want to be a vector.

Wow. I have seldom seen a poster lose credibility more rapidly than you.

Might be a poe

You weren’t the target audience. The virus was.

Why are you just trusting the model? The model is not reality. God is reality. If you won’t put the blood on your doorpost that’s your business.

You are delusional and a threat to others. Your lack of any sense of responsibility toward others is unbecoming, to say the least.

That’s usually a good sign.

Yeah, unfair of me to include you in my game of Russian Roulette.
Ya should have thought about that before ya made the rules.
Well okay, you just bought into them. Is there a difference?
So unfair of me to know with such certainty that the chamber is empty.

Is this what passes for a rational society? Or is what we witnessing a breakdown of rationalism? Surely there was some takeaway from Mormonism. Think of the money.

I really have to credit Concrete Zipper and Eric K for giving me a forum to spout off so indiscriminately. I promise, this is way on topic. It goes to the heart of “being Mormon”. The consequences of faith left so many unanswered questions in the wake of waking up to such a whackadoodle cult.

This isn’t a case of blind faith. It’s a case of not providing food for the virus in the first place. Fear is its food. Women are at a disadvantage due to genetic predisposition to fear, which I suppose is the reason they don’t do the foolhardy stuff.

There’s obviously a perceptual problem. Who do you believe? In case of a living thing, which has its own (possibly hive) consciousness even in the case of the virus, why not tune into the organism itself to learn about it and give it specific instructions not to infect you? This is where meditative practices would really come in handy.

Bradley: where did you get the idea women are more susceptible? It's well documented the opposite is true. I would also argue what you see as fear is actually discretion and bravery is actually foolhardiness.

bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No, faith is the antidote. That’s the point.
> It’s the snakes and the brass serpent all over
> again. You of all people should know that unless
> Judaism has lost its meaning and needs a refresher
> course.

Judaism is strong on faith, and extremely strong on doing whatever is necessary so those statements of faith will have an abundance of three-dimensional ways to manifest.

Throughout history, and regardless of the local culture or nation involved, whenever the Jews have been in danger, there have simultaneously been Jews working to make sure that God had the right, three-dimensional, elements available to effect a "rescue."

Even the most right-wing of Jews, the sub-set of Jews who absolutely believe in the apparent miracles recounted in the Bible, simultaneously work unceasingly, in whatever ways are necessary and wise, to bring about the miracles they are seeking from God. They pray to God (at least three times a day for observant Jewish men), and then they go out and DO.

And currently, those "necessary and wise" ways include, first and foremost, everyone, everywhere on the planet, washing their hands thoroughly, multiple times throughout the day.

No Jew is depending on faith alone.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2020 05:22PM by Tevai.

But that’s my point. The virus is a matter of mental hygiene. If you need a backup of sanitization then you’re missing the point. There’s no such thing as a “dirty Jew” but there can always be a cleaner one.

bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The virus is a matter of mental hygiene.

The virus is NOT "mental."

The virus is a physical being (albeit a very small physical being), whose driving force (as is true of all living creatures) is to reproduce and thrive.

No matter what a given human's level of mental competence is, viruses cannot be mentally "wished away."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2020 05:40PM by Tevai.

The virus is a very large physical being comprised of a single consciousness. That’s the key to understanding it. It has needs. It’s a wonderful coincidence that connection to divine source denies those needs.

You don’t need the cops to evict this deadbeat tenant.

About wishful thinking, there’s a word for that. Magick, to distinguish it from illusionists. Magical thinking is a term used perjuratively against the Mormons. Who says the magic isn’t real? Actual scientific scrutiny (however heretical) shows that magic is real. To casually sweep away evidence is certainly lazy, but more likely is done to protect a certain worldview.

Buying into a secular worldview is a matter of convenience and security. I hate for the Mormons to be right, but they are no longer Mormons nor does their empty shell of a faith have any relevancy in the modern world. But as I’ve just pointed out, it could.

bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The virus is a very large physical being comprised
> of a single consciousness. That’s the key to
> understanding it. It has needs. It’s a wonderful
> coincidence that connection to divine source
> denies those needs.

This is interesting to me because my own default is that consciousness is "large" [so far as I am able to determine, I am a lifelong, natural pantheist at my deepest levels], but physical form is (by comparison) "small."

It appears that you and I are "seeing," but we are each using different ends of the telescope to "see."

I agree that consciousness has needs, but I disagree that "divine source" denies those needs. Again, assuming that you and I could agree on a definition of "divine source," I would not agree that "connection to divine source denies those needs." Instead, I would say something along the lines of "connection" or, possibly, "amplification."


> You don’t need the cops to evict this deadbeat
> tenant.

Not the cops, but certainly "someone" who either knows human medical science, or someone (in ancient cultures, for example) who serendipitously realizes what is actually, in contemporary times, a medical/scientific fact, although the means to scientifically prove this in ancient times did not exist.

Easy example: ancient peoples who realized that slathering a wound (a sword slash, a construction accident) with honey, would often result in that person continuing to live, rather than that person dying from what we now call infection. No one knew "how" this worked, they just knew that it frequently DID work--and they were correct.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2020 07:45PM by Tevai.

I'm facing this thing head on as well. People think i am nuts for still working and exposing myself to different people everyday. I am tired of hiding. Been doing it most of my damn life. From one thing or another and i am sick of hiding. I'm even sick of nerve pain trying to own me as well.

As much as I hate the Mormons about being such assholes and hating when they’re right, putting on the Armor of God is as old as the hills. They didn’t invent it.

bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As much as I hate the Mormons about being such
> assholes and hating when they’re right, putting
> on the Armor of God is as old as the hills. They
> didn’t invent it.

Bradley: The armour of God is considered a metaphor in the Bible, in Ephesians 6:10-18. From Wiki (because I'm being lazy):

The armour of God is "loins girt with truth (belt of truth), breastplate of righteousness, shoes with the preparation of the gospel of peace (peace), shield of faith, helmet of salvation, and the sword of the spirit/word of God."

The generally accepted meaning is that the armour of God is truth, righteousness, peace, faith, salvation and the word of God. It is not literal armour. It is not a literal war. And, in any case, the "war" is against Satan, not fellow humans.

There is no literal "armour" (Henry VIII style) you can wear to avoid pathogens. There is protective equipment such as front line health workers use (when available, which hopefully is as close to 100% of the time as possible). As regular folks, we can do the handwashing and the social distancing as advised and demonstrated by medical and science experts.

As Christians, in my experience, we can celebrate and feel gratitude for the knowledge that experts gain and share in various fields of human endeavour. I've never read a scripture or heard a (mainstream) sermon where God instructs us to be bloody stupid.

At the very least, if a person doesn't want to heed the best medical advice going, they can self-isolate in order to protect their family, neighbour, community from an inadvertent and preventable scourge emanating from failure to take reasonable precautions to limit the number of hosts COVID-19 can find and utilize to perpetuate itself.

Here we go with the “God is not you” idea, which is how this worldwide problem got started in the first place.

Here’s the problem from a mathematical perspective. 3D reality is a projection of 4D reality. The virus is a 4D disease. Because of the way the world is wired, that’s a problem.

The virus is a test of faith. LDS Inc loses.

How’s your 3D solutions working for you?
Wouldn’t 4D be a better way?
The kingdom of God is within you.
The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Ring any bells?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2020 05:47PM by bradley.

I have read and thought about this reply from you, Bradley, and all I can say is, "What. The Fuck. Are you talking about?!"

I doubt this is the second coming, but I’m pretty wasted.

I’ve solved the Coronavirus problem. Where should I send the bill?

Being wasted and venting is a terrible outcome on the message boards trust me. I've had my fair share of being blocked for saying stupid things and then i have to think about what i said for a few days and why i got blocked. At least i get a chance to think about what i said while i am blocked.

Free advice on writing while intoxicated:

1. PACE YOURSELF. A buzz can help get creative juices flowing, shit-faced wasted just leads to terrible ideas.

2. If you come up with something while drunk or high (I live in Washington state with legal dope), write it down on a notepad or in a Word document. Come back to it when sober. The intoxicated version is the crappy first draft and should be treated as such.

3. If you are on the internet while wasted and think, "Should I post this?" the answer is "NO!"

4. Some of the people criticizing your ideas are not "small-minded," "faithless," or "haters." They are pointing out that there are some genuinely terrible flaws in your logic.

And I have a price quote for the value of your solution to COVID-19: $0.00

You can be strong without going the whole God armor thing. I actually do worse when i have thought that god will take good care of me through anything. Its not a healthy mentallity trust me. There were times when i most definitely was not protected by a god of any kind. There are more humans on this earth than just me so i have to think of their welfare so i wash my hands still. I find i am a better person as a humanist atheist even if i am incorrect. The whole god thing is unhealthy for a guy with my background. It would mean god stood with indifference during traumatic events and i have proven that i can not handle that.

But thinking that way is completely backwards, as is the advice of medical professionals. Believe me, I’ve shown them up too often to count. The self is a construction of culture that you buy into. You know this is true because your “Mormon self” disappeared overnight. You, what you think is you, is an illusion. It’s real to you, but your everyday experience is basically a manifestation of God. You have to see yourself as God living through you, not an experience that just happens. Nothing just happens. There’s so much to being that science flat out denies because it has become the world’s leading cult.

No. You are God having the experience of being you. If you can see yourself that way, the virus will not infect you. The carriers you come into contact with, who cares? The virus won’t grow in your body. Christ consciousness has so many icons to choose from. It doesn’t matter, the hyperdimensional physics is the same.

I do think there is more to me than i think or what anyone around me thought of me. But it has taken me a long time to have any autonomy or individuality of any kind. Am i an extension of god? I do not believe so. Do i feel like more like my own person outside of religion? Yes, absolutely. My brain is functioning more properly without brainwashed influence. Do i think people are manipulated through mass propaganda outside of religion? Yes. To think i am above anyone or to think i am invincible so i don't need to take any precautions right now would be incorrect and irresponsible of me. But to be too much in fear would be incorrect as well and does me and everyone else no good.

> "...if you can see
> yourself that way, the
> virus can't affect you."

Fascinating, especially when you see it happening before your eyes.

Could this be our friend, the ex-B'hai-ist?

Has he mentioned Lebanon yet?

Warrior: You don't have to expose yourself to people (unfortunate wording but I'm just repeating what you said, in the context of the virus).

I thought you said you could just deliver the items by dropping them at the door. You don't have to interact with people, at least many random people at their houses. If you have to knock on doors or touch doorbells, sanitize your hands every time you get back into your vehicle. Also, at regular times, sanitize the car door handle.


In terms of nerve pain, there are medications to help with that. I take it as a given that you've consulted a physician about it. I won't name any meds here but you can check with an MD and try a few that may be recommended. The first thing for them to do, as I'm sure you know, is to come up with a diagnosis for what's causing the pain. That is the beginning of choosing the best available therapy.

Sometimes i drive passengers so i am a little more exposed but i disinfect my car in between each passenger and i wash my hands throughout the day. Trust me its been a long haul with doctors to find a way to eliminate nerve pain. You learn quite quickly that when it comes to getting nerve pain under control that doctors are very limited. Even with meds you will only get 30 percent relief at maximum i have experienced.

Oh i see what you were saying haha. Yea really don't want to expose myself in that sense.

If you want to avoid contagion, the surest, most immediate, most logical, most foolproof way is to follow the medical/scientific advice.

As a global community, we have to be responsible not only for ourselves but for our neighbours (in the largest sense of that word). We are not only looking after ourselves by observing the recommended precautions (hand washing, social distancing) but are demonstrating concern and love for neighbours, friends and fellow community members, as well as for the health care workers and government officials who are trying to look after us, and by extension the global inhabitants. We must depend on each other to each do our part to help us all.

We can each effect a positive outcome for this pandemic by the simple measure of washing our hands diligently: using the recommended procedure and doing it often, as the medical professionals and scientists tell us often.

When there is a proven method of prevention of a scourge and people shun it, that is gross negligence and antipathy toward neighbour, at best.

Surely that is not the way of the God of Love that Christians profess. Rather, as Christians we are exhorted to Love Thy Neighbour as Thyself.

As a Christian, I say surely God does not ask that we display rank stupidity and call it faith. Rather, I imagine him saying give your head a shake.

If not for your own sake, for the sake of neighbours and strangers alike who would like to live. It is literally within your hands to assist them in meeting that basic goal. Or at least in not ripping it away from them.

Don't embrace un-science. Wash. Those. Hands. Using correct technique: Soap. Warm running water. Minimum 20 seconds. Repeat often.

I say put your money where your mouth is.
Corona virus is such a blessing, isn’t?
Faithless living is easy, but is it?
Christianity isn’t a shield. Christ is.
Fear is that food supply. Cut that off and it will die.

So, how's that cold atmospheric plasma machine working out for you?
https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2294595,2294698#msg-2294698

You related to Chad Daybell by any chance?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2020 05:45PM by Brother Of Jerry.

Here’s to good gumshoe work.

I doubt Daybell has the science to back him up, but I don’t think such 4D power tools are even warranted in this case.

That’s why my comment, back to snakes and brass serpents. Hand washing is based on 3D pandemic models that rely on humans being so foolishly disconnected from their divine source. It buys us time. It’s not a solution. It’s not workable going forward.

Hand washing is sanitizion, not sterilization. There’s a difference. God within me nukes this virus. God somewhere else, “you got a problem”.

bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I say put your money where your mouth is.
> Corona virus is such a blessing, isn’t?
> Faithless living is easy, but is it?
> Christianity isn’t a shield. Christ is.
> Fear is that food supply. Cut that off and it will
> die.

If by "money where your mouth is" you mean don't wash my hands, I reply NO. From early childhood on I have been fascinated by, and grateful to, medical pioneers who spent their lives in quests for knowledge that informed the world and saved literally countless lives through the ages. Information about pathogens and contagion was hard-won and we should still be grateful to early researchers in these fields, some of whom literally sacrificed their lives to advance human knowledge.

In what universe is "faith" displayed by ignoring the basics of human biology?

Indicating that observing the basics of personal hygiene demonstrates "fear" is a step too far out there for me.

Remember that joke about the guy stuck on a roof who repeatedly prays for God's help? A man in a boat drifts by and calls up to ask the man on the roof if he needs a ride and the guy says no, he's waiting for God to help him. A helicopter hovers above and the pilot throws down a rope but the stuck man says no, he's waiting for God. Then when the floodwaters rise and the guy on the roof feels the water tickling his nose he asks God why are you not saving me. God answers: I sent you a boat and a plane - what are you waiting for?

(or something like that - I likely murdered that joke but you get the idea, I hope).

We've got the repeated messages from the MDs to wash our hands, we've got water flowing out of our taps, there's soap, a towel, and reasons to observe the basic precautions to protect ourselves and family and community and world.

What are we waiting for?

Wash those hands!

And rinse.

And repeat.

Again.

Why create the need to ask God to save you when you're in ICU when you could do it yourself from the get-go, with the brains God gave you, if you would just observe the basics your momma started teaching you when you were still a toddler and likely many times from then on.

If CV puts me in ICU, I have failed and I deserve whatever comes next. Lack of faith has real consequences here.

Me and God are good. Maybe it’s not fair that I have fallback options that are unavailable to the public. Even if I screw up, I’m covered. But it would be a shame to pass up a good faith test.

What will you do if you realize you were not covered? Now that will test your true strength if no god has your back.

If you want to go all-spiritual, Bradley, you might consider hiring a Christian Science practitioner. My sister trains people in that, um..."art,"* and I have a nephew who "practices" the "Mind Science of healing." Since there aren't that many CS customers the last thirty years or so, you can probably get one at competitive rates.

I will pray and attend my Baptist church's on-line church service.
I will also (try to) remember keeping social distance and guard my coughs.
I will exercise (pun) prudent self-care.
And I will take Peggy Noonan's advice to "wash my hands like Lady Macbeth with OCD."

*Not sure of the right word, here. As Mark Twain said, the religion is neither Christian, nor a science.

Yeah, but could it be that they just got lazy?

What happens when you get a pandemic you need God to manage?

Either Sodom goes up in flames or it doesn't.

Big deal...

And all of us here know that you looney-tunes always come up with explanations for why your prophecies don't come to pass. That's a great thing about being a prophet, seer, and revelator!

It’s so weird that I’m practically a saint in Vietnam but can’t travel there. That doesn’t happen by itself. The power of God is the only explanation. Maybe Mormonism served me well. I took it as a learning experience. It sure was painful. I can understand why most people don’t get over it. But I’m not most people.

Here’s to a life well lived, EOD. Next time around there probably won’t be a Mormon church.

Haha i instantly thought of porky pig going "bidibidibip that's all folks." Haha. I watched too many shows growing up i swear.

yOU WILL NOT WASH YOUR HANDS?

Do you have a death wish?

If so, live alone until this illness is gone.

Don't force your incredibly idiotic health

habits on innocent people who believe not

washing hands transmits germs and illness. OK?

He wants to duel it out with a fictious historical character.. lets see who wins.

You must be a boomer.

This is called shoot the messenger.
Of course I will use good physical hygiene. Duh.
The ivory tower guys really screwed up this time, marginalizing faith and all. Even LDS Inc bought into it. Maybe it’s about time for the spell to be broken.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2020 06:31PM by bradley.

I hope you are more rational, and responsible, in real life than you are here.

She's a beautiful boomer!

With such lovely bell shaped curves.

My favorite kind!!

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> She's a beautiful boomer!


Thank you my Wonderful Guy.

I can't take anyone seriously who says faith is the antidote... l

let me know how that worked for you.

His thinking is impeccable.

If he doesn't get the illness, that proves his faith was rewarded by God. If he gets ill, that means his faith was insufficient and he must work harder next time to please God.

In either case God wins. In either case bradley's thinking is vindicated.

You can take the man out of the cult, but you can't take the cult out of the man.

I may have lost my marbles, but isn’t anyone else appalled that the church has so massively failed its membership? TBMs don’t even deserve such a betrayal. Oaks and company have exactly zero faith in God. They have the solution to this grave, world changing pandemic at their disposal but they hide it under a bushel. I don’t have words for these people. But I’ll give it a go. These “men of God” are nothing but faithless fools who deserve to burn in Hell. Their faith is truly dead, their lives wasted. They will leave this world kicking and screaming, like GBH, terrified of the judgement they are sure they face.

The Mormons danced with the devil and now the bill is due. The Q15 would do well to pay with their lives.

Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil. Words to live by.

It sounds like somebody got off their meds.

So. This is the thanks I get for sharing my moment of clarity?

Neil Degrass Tyson, the astrophysicist probably said it best on Colbert last week, something to the effect that CV is a test of whether folks will trust and listen to science..if we pay attention to what scientists say to wash their handsd, maybe the CV will just go on by..are people washing their hands are they trusting scientistsi.not a pass/fail test, but a pass/die test. Something to keep in mind Bradley.

There is no God Bradley, only science.

Eric brought up Barbara Tuchman the other day. Her book A Distant Mirror is apposite here. She wrote about the apocalyptic thinking that ran riot during the 14th century with its panics, its End of Days cults, its self-flagellation.

Bradley isn't serious yet.

I actually feel dumber for having spent time reading this thread to find there is no “there” there.

Why is anyone feeding this walking eyeroll?