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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: April 01, 2020 05:13PM

My observation based on my travels today: Social distancing is not going well.

First I went to work at a designated time to pick up materials (for our transition to online learning.) I saw teachers and staff members standing or passing in close proximity to others. Three teachers were walking together and chatting, just as if it were a normal day.

Then I went to two different grocery stores, Wal-Mart and Safeway. Wal-Mart was a complete disaster. The workers (bless them!) were stocking shelves in close proximity to customers like nothing was wrong. Only one that I saw was wearing a face mask. Some customers were careful to maintain a respectful distance, and some were clearly clueless. I steered clear as best I could.

Safeway was better. This has been my observation for non Wal-Mart stores. However I did see a butcher approach an elderly woman and stand about a foot or two away from her, talking to her face-to-face. Neither one had face masks, although the woman had plastic gloves on.

I picked up a prescription there. The pharmacy tech had a mask and gloves on. There was also a large plastic shield between the tech and myself. She complimented me on my facial covering (a turtleneck covering my mouth and nose, and a scarf over that.) I replied, "I'm doing the best I can with what I've got." But by the next time I go out, I *will* have a functioning face mask. She offered me copious amounts of hand sanitizer. I was grateful that I was able to get my prescription with no difficulty.

I'm just stunned that large numbers of people still don't get it. Based on what I saw today, Maryland is a disaster waiting to happen (despite our governor's very best efforts.)

How is it going near you?

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Posted by: doyle18 ( )
Date: April 01, 2020 05:28PM

Since I live in California where the state and local government is taking this seriously, it's slightly better. Unfortunately because so many people weren't keeping their distance, all beaches and hiking trails had to be closed last week. In my opinion, when non-essential businesses had to close, the beaches and hiking trails should have been closed then as well. In my personal experience, people shopping are respecting social distancing guidelines, and stores even have markers for the lines at checkout. On my neighborhood walks, people are keeping their distance as well, even crossing the street to avoid getting too close.

I'm glad Costco is now limiting entrance to 2 people per membership at this point, and I hope other stores start something similar as even outside of Utah, people are taking their entire families shopping. With so many people working from home, it's not that difficult to have one parent stay home while the other goes grocery shopping. Even then, I'm not going to Costco until all of this is over.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2020 08:23PM by doyle18.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: April 01, 2020 05:32PM

I went to Walmart yesterday. It was a total fail. I hope I don't die from shopping there.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: April 01, 2020 05:35PM

Yeah, I think I'm done with Wal-Mart for a while.

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Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: April 02, 2020 01:27AM

There’s one place in the city that smells worse than Wal*Mart —that’s Juvenile Hall.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: April 02, 2020 01:32AM

I won't ask.

;-)

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Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: April 02, 2020 02:03AM

And to think I remember those years so fondly. :D

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: April 02, 2020 02:09AM

Do tell!

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: April 01, 2020 05:35PM

There was a story in the Seattle Times a few days ago about a choir in Mt Vernon, WA, that held choir practice a few weeks ago. At least one person was infected, and spread the infection to a substantial majority of the choir members. So far two dead and several hospitalized.

They avoided hugs and handshakes, had hand sanitizer and all that. Apparently just the act of singing aerosolized enough virus that people got infected from the air in the room. Of course the virus was probably being pumped into the air for the entire choir practice of an hour or more.

In any case, just carrying on a normal face to face conversation may be a pretty decent way to spread the virus. Just plain talking is going to generate some aerosol droplets.


I walked through Temple Square Saturday, and there was a gaggle of 8 sisters standing in a circle talking. They were standing shoulder to shoulder. The whole circle wasn't six feet across. And they spend their time (until just recently) talking to tourists from all over the world. I think the temple square mishies are a lot more likely than the average bear to have been exposed to COVID-19.

That sounds like a recipe for disaster.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: April 01, 2020 07:50PM

Can’t they just meet Jesus in the temple to get fixed up?

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: April 01, 2020 05:44PM

Unfortunately, bad behavior WRT social distancing doesn't become evident for about 30 days. Mardi Gras was Feb 25, and it was about Mar 25 that New Orleans realized they had a serious problem.

I'm waiting for the Spring Break shoe to drop in Florida about April 10 to 15.

Also unfortunately, good behavior WRT social distancing doesn't show much benefit for about 30 days either.

I suspect that when the US death toll goes past 50,000 at a full gallop, even Walmart customers will notice.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2020 05:48PM by Brother Of Jerry.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: April 01, 2020 06:05PM

I feel really sorry for the grocery store workers, because I don't see how they are going to escape this. Cashiers need plastic shields. All of them need face masks and gloves. Restocking should only be done outside of store hours, even if that means that store hours need to be reduced.

I looked at most of the grocery store workers today in horror. They are sitting ducks.

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: April 02, 2020 05:47AM

if the grocery store clerks get it then everyone is going to get it. Because no one is prepared, and everyone is out buying stuff everyday. The whole situation gets me irritated. It's symptomatic of a much greater problem, which is that Americans (in this instance) have too much freedom. We should learn something from the Communists and how they handled it in China. (locked people up in their houses, literally). Forced obedience.

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Posted by: subeamnotlogedin ( )
Date: April 01, 2020 06:07PM

The Mormon Church is recklessly bringing home its missionaries from across the globe packed in with the elderly missionaries.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkO-0GanKzc

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Posted by: jiminycricket ( )
Date: April 01, 2020 07:11PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkO-0GanKzc

That video makes me cringe. Think of it. It only takes one unknowing infected person on the plane to be singing and infecting the whole lot of them.

They are so naïve and probably believe that the Mormon God favors them.

I can imagine what could happen with the CV in 30 days from now.

It's like lambs going to the slaughter and they don't even know it.

----

If the church hierarchy and missionary department had done this BEFORE the ----- worldwide pandemic and brought the missionaries home months ago, then I might have to admit there was some revelation from somewhere going on. But as always, TSCC just reacts to what's happening in the here and now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2020 07:47PM by maude.

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Posted by: doyle18 ( )
Date: April 01, 2020 08:25PM

That video is especially cringeworthy, as there's that choir that had practice where one person who didn't know they were infected still passed on the virus to everyone, resulting in 2 deaths and others hospitalized.

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Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: April 01, 2020 08:27PM

subeamnotlogedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Mormon Church is recklessly bringing home its
> missionaries from across the globe packed in with
> the elderly missionaries.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkO-0GanKzc



That scene made me cry. Those poor beguiled people--young and old.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: April 01, 2020 09:35PM

Very cringeworthy! ...The poor lemmings!

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: April 02, 2020 01:35AM

Giddyness off the scale, but it's 'OK' bc they're missionaries...

Looks like ChurchCo chartered that flight, did they screen (any) passengers before allowing them to board?


Darwin Award candidates, but ChurchCo will duck any responsibility 'blame', that's for sure!!!

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: April 02, 2020 01:40AM

Costco today was about the same as WM; perhaps slightly better. friend told me later that Costco is counting & controlling the number of shoppers inside, but I didn't see that.


Glad I live in a 'small town', I'm going to stay home tomorrow & 'tolerate' cabin fever.... I guess.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: April 02, 2020 01:42AM

In general, I think this deal of each jurisdiction doing it's own thing is CRAZY;

guns & church OK in Kansas, cops stopping out of state licensed cars in some places...

No Leadership at the top, that's beyond obvious.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: April 01, 2020 07:17PM

I agree that, like Italy, we have a lot of people who refuse to isolate. But here in north California, it's obvious that people are isolating in big numbers. The streets are dead at night, and the quiet is welcome. Now, if they would just turn off the mall lights at night. It's a mile away, and it glows in my sky all night, reducing the number of stars I can see.

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: April 01, 2020 11:38PM

So far, so good with us here. We are social distancing (new verb of the year??) like mad, but so far, it's looking good. DH and I are right in the target demographic, 70 and 73, but we aren't going anywhere, hunkering down and washing hands like mad.

I mentioned mail quarantining to DH, and he thought that was silly, but he DOES wash his hands thoroughly after handling mail.

We haven't heard tubercular-caliber hacking coming from anywhere in the immediate neighborhood, and houses are very reasonably spaced. I wear a mask if I go to the store (once) or doctor's office (once). Other medical visits have been with daughter's assistance on face-to-face computer setups for facechats.

Keeping well-sanitized fingers crossed!

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: April 01, 2020 07:33PM

> it glows in my sky all
> night, reducing the number
> of stars I can see.


It's only an increase of one, but I could send you an autographed photo of me?

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: April 01, 2020 08:18PM

Ha ha ha! I give it one star.

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Posted by: Hedning ( )
Date: April 01, 2020 08:34PM

Rate of growth of positives, hospitalizations etc is slow.

Streets seem empty compared to normal, beach closures etc have put a lot of walkers close together on the coast highway so not sure that was a good idea. There was not a big issue of people congregating on the beaches here.

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Posted by: Lowpriest ( )
Date: April 01, 2020 08:42PM

I am suprised at how many people don't think that there is actually a problem at all. I went to the local drugstore to buy the usual stuff today...

Some people acted like there was absolutely no problem. Even the sales clerk had no concept of personal space.

Others acted like everyone else had the black death.

Isn't there a middle position with a basic level of universal caution in order?

I felt like the extreme one, "Unclean! Unclean!" toward every stranger. Maybe I over reacted...

There appears to be some inconsistently here...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2020 08:44PM by Lowpriest.

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Posted by: CateS ( )
Date: April 01, 2020 09:38PM

Central Virginia.

Have been out of school nearly 3 weeks.

Yesterday at Lowes was the first time I felt unsafe. Hope I didn’t get it.

No more outings (aside from outdoor, solitary spaces exercise) for me moving forward.
Grocery shopping will be restricted to the first hour of business the store opens in a given day.

With my crappy high deductible insurance combined with dearth of medical supplies and hospital beds if I were to be diagnosed, I can ill afford, (financially or physically) to contract it.
I think the best thing for everyone is to make damn sure we aren’t exposed. We’re doomed if we do.

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Posted by: CL2 ( )
Date: April 01, 2020 10:43PM

The store clerks have plastic shields in front of the registers. I heard that Walmart employees now have masks, but I haven't been in. There are quite a few people out, but nothing like usual.

The problem I've seen here in little Hyrum is the local grocery store has the line to stand away from the register right in the aisle where everyone turns and goes down the next aisle so everyone is having to move around to make room for the people in line and the people going down the aisle, and since it is close to going down the aisle, we had 6 people in line today trying to make sure nobody butted in as we were down an aisle. It was a mess. And they are restocking on every aisle and you can't get by them without getting close and most aisles had a shopper on them, too.

My boyfriend's job they are down to wearing masks and having their temp taken every day. He said they can't do 6 feet, but they can do 3 or 4 feet apart. He said they aren't able to sit at a table for meetings around the table. They have to all be facing the same direction so they aren't breathing on each other. He got me a mask to wear to Walmart tomorrow. My husband and son are also going to work. Their meetings are now in big buildings with a lot of space and they are 6 feet apart.

Logan hasn't been hit very hard yet. I haven't heard the most recent number of cases, but no deaths so far.

I probably need to go to Walmart early and see if I can score some TP, Scott type or 1000 sheets per roll type, for my 2 disabled brothers. Their toilets work better with Scott tissue (a plumber told me to use it and it has made it so we didn't have to dig up the sewer at my parents' home where one brother lives). Costco had TP Saturday when my boyfriend went, but it wasn't 1 ply, which is the only kind we'll use.

Not looking forward to play the game. I've resisted until now.

But not very many people in the Walmarts when I've gone in. There are 2. Sam's is only allowing 150 people in the building at a time. They were cleaning the self service aisles after every person and I assume on the regular aisles. The girls at the local store were also cleaning the key pads and the belt on the aisles (when some others finally came and we were able to check out).

Takeout orders have worked well for me. The hospital was empty when I had to go to the eye doctor last week with a vitreous detachment. They weren't sure what it was, so I had to go in. Most doctors are calling from home to patients. There was next to nobody in the whole building.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2020 10:47PM by cl2.

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: April 01, 2020 11:13PM

I am not really sure how it is going here because we are not going out. I did a delivery order with Safeway but when I went to do another there are no delivery times available. Our local (expensive) market is doing curbside and I did that Saturday. I only got things that could be quarantined or washed with Lysol kitchen cleaner. Letting mail sit in a bag in quarantine for 24 hours and only getting it every other day (don't touch anything and wash hands) and that is the only time we go out at all. Not many walking in our neighborhood but it is raining a lot. Lots of deliveries but they go into quarantine for 24 hours. Bring them in, wash. Open them then wash and wash the knife. Boxes go right out to recycling, wash again.

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Posted by: Heretic 2 ( )
Date: April 02, 2020 12:28AM

I live in Arizona and do work in a grocery store five days a week. I have been deemed an essential worker and so I have to go to work instead of staying safe at home in lock-down.

Everyone has been panic buying for four weeks. The shelves are entirely empty in certain parts of the store. The store is jammed with people like the day after Thanksgiving every day. Because of the shortages of so many items and the rationing, people go shopping more often than they used to, and stay longer, because it takes more time to find things and figure out what to buy, since they could not get what they came for. It also seems that since the restaurants, bars, gyms, and many other businesses have closed, people come to the store to socialize.

The six feet apart thing is a total joke. There are so many people everywhere that it is hard to walk through the store without colliding with people.

We workers could have all the gloves we want for free, but there are practically no face masks available anywhere for anyone to buy.

In my rural area, there are just starting to be a few confirmed cases, but this is deceptive because there are hardly any test kits. There are almost no cases because almost no one can get tested.

I expect that four weeks from now, I will have COVID-19 and will be in quarantine at home, in the hospital, or in the morgue.

I guess I have always admired soldiers who risked their lives and were willing to die for their country. Now I unexpectedly am in the position where I will likely die serving my community.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2020 12:36AM by Heretic 2.

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: April 02, 2020 05:43AM

I'm in a similar situation to Herritic2, Social distancing is a complete joke. I've about had it, The Managers of essential workers don't care about any of us. We are Replaceable, as my manager told us a few days ago.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: April 03, 2020 12:16PM

One thing I wish grocery stores would do to help prevent obstacle in the isles: Move the extra stands and displays of crap out of the isles!

One of my pet peeves is when people park their cart by one of the obstacles and there is no way to get around them. It forces people to get too close.

Thank you to everyone working in the grocery stores and to maintain our food supply. That is one service that would cause widespread panic if people can't get food.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: April 02, 2020 01:07AM

"Bring out your dead!"

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: April 02, 2020 01:20AM

I don't want to go on the cart. I feel fine.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: April 02, 2020 01:37AM

She's not dead. She's just resting. :o)

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: April 02, 2020 01:39AM

I feel happy!



;-)

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: April 02, 2020 02:50AM

“I can’t take this one, he’s not dead.”
“He will be very soon. Besides, he’s a temple worker.”
“Well why didn’t you say so?”

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: April 02, 2020 02:53AM

If he's a temple worker, he's already been hit on the head!

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Posted by: saucie ( )
Date: April 03, 2020 12:29PM

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Bring out your dead!"


hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: April 02, 2020 05:06AM

I think that social distancing might help a little bit to begin with. It might delay the sudden impact on a community for a critical week or two. But the infection increases exponentially. So half way to compliance with social distancing might create a ten percent benefit of what could have been obtained otherwise with if most people were compliant.

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: April 02, 2020 05:37AM

Social distancing is really tough and I'm not doing it. I work in a situation with lots of people and our manager told us that we are essential and that our hours were going to go up, if we don't come to work we will be replaced, Because we are in the supply chain that supplies the public.

I've about had it with this social distancing since my job doesn't take any of it seriously anyway. And reading all these above posts about shopping at Walmart confirms it even further. No one is prepared, everyone is going shopping. And the workers are forced to work. So I went out yesterday and ran my errands, it was pleasant, and I"m through with feeling guilty. A little less traffic, smaller lines everywhere. Why should I suffer? when I'm still working 40+ hours a week?

If you want social distancing to work, stopping shopping, don't buy your medicine, period.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: April 03, 2020 12:30PM

I think it's working fairly well here. We started out with early high numbers of the disease and now many other areas have far surpassed us.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: April 03, 2020 12:31PM

Well, I think most people knew it would be a fail. The question is whether it would be epic-demic or not.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: April 03, 2020 01:49PM

This is the worst epididymis I’ve seen in a long time.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: April 03, 2020 01:54PM

How many have you seen?

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Posted by: laperla not logged in ( )
Date: April 03, 2020 01:44PM


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Posted by: Third of Five ( )
Date: April 03, 2020 02:13PM

Most people where I am here in the UK are taking it seriously, at least now. It took a while to implement changes but there are lines on the floors of shops indicating the appropriate distances needed; they will also limit the amount of customers allowed in a store.
I have witnessed some customers ignoring them completely, but most people are conforming.

In the hospital we have handover in the corridor now so we can stand further apart. This does seem a bit pointless though seeing as this cannot be implemented whilst we are working and on our breaks.

As far as observing the public as patients, people of course don’t want to come into hospital, but with those who end up there, I have seen two extremes: 1) People who are so afraid they are paranoid. One woman was in absolute hysterics and crying her eyes out because she had a headache even though it’s not a symptom. 2) Selfish people who come in due to something else but decide not to disclose they also have symptoms of the virus because they don’t want to be treated in the covid areas, thus probably infecting us all. One such person was a nurse, who thought she deserved special treatment, and when she didn’t get it, shouted at us and left (I suspect she will be fired).
It seems people are either too scared or not scared enough. It would be so great if people just obeyed the rules and didn’t panic and do selfish stuff. I myself was without food for several days due to the panic buying which meant I was too weak to go to a shift.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: April 03, 2020 02:44PM

Hey, when social order finally breaks down, and it's time to snatch up the ol' 'Grab 'n Go' backpack and the gun case, where are we meeting up?

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Posted by: Human ( )
Date: April 03, 2020 02:59PM

Good luck, elderolddog:

https://youtu.be/DQf87509mE0

(I don’t pretend to know what the video means, but I’m sure there’s a reasonable, benign every day reason for it. I’m sure.)

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Posted by: [|] ( )
Date: April 03, 2020 04:16PM

>I’m sure there’s a reasonable, benign every day reason for it. I’m sure.)

Tanks are not manufactured on military bases. They have to be transported from the factory to the base. It is easier to ship them by rail. Driving them across the country on roads is bad for the tank tracks and the roads.

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Posted by: Warrior71783 ( )
Date: April 03, 2020 02:51PM

I think it is going ok over here in idaho. Its hard to get people to social distance when they are not used to it. For the introvert hermit like myself that avoids crowds anyways even without a virus its pretty easy to social distance but for the extravert that NEEDS to be out about with people to survive it seems like it is much more difficult for them to social distance.

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Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: April 03, 2020 03:38PM

My question is:

If the fluids carrying the virus can be aerosolized, how long does it stay aloft ?

Probably depends on the ventilation system.

So, if someone walks away from the isle where you want to pick up toilet paper or ice cream sandwiches, could the virus still be suspended in the air as you walk through ? Even if you've stayed well away from that person ?

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Posted by: Third of Five ( )
Date: April 03, 2020 03:49PM

I don’t think anyone knows yet, the experts can’t agree. But if a an infected person coughs and the droplets go on a surface, then you touch it then touch your face, you will get infected. The other problem is the statement that asymptomatic transfer can occur. I don’t know how that works. I had a lecture from a nursing mentor who insists that transfer can only occur due to viral load and that therefore asymptomatic transfer isn’t possible. But what I am reading definitely contradicts that. What we do know it is just incredibly infectious and some people are not taking it seriously. There was one article I read about a choir who sang together in a room, but using the correct social distancing between them; they all got the virus.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: April 04, 2020 08:54PM

In response to some questions of kathleen's and Third of Five:

[Disclaimer: I am not an expert. It's best to read original material from reputable sources, regularly, as more is being learned by scientists and medics every day and information changes, often rapidly].


1. Third of Five: According to your nursing instructor ("mentor"), "viral load" is the main consideration in disease transmission and therefore asymptomatic transmission is "not possible". This is not what experts are saying, according to much material that I am reading. Yes, viral load is a big factor in transmission, but not the only factor. It sounds like your mentor is saying that asymptomatic people either have no viral load or only a small viral load. This is not accurate.

If there are older, weaker or scarce particles of the virus in the air or on an object or person near you or that you touch, experts say you would likely not get infected, even if you had close contact, due to low viral load (but this is not an absolute guarantee of safety).

If someone who is known to have CV sneezes close to you, they are expelling droplets which likely contain heavy viral load (very contagious). If the infected droplets fell on you or onto something you touch and you then touch your face you have potentially just infected yourself with the virus. As we all know by now (I hope) the portals of entry for the virus are our mouth, nose and eyes. We are being constantly reminded now to STOP touching our face! It's a major way we can protect ourselves (although it's an often unconscious human impulse and hard to break the habit - we have to become more conscious of what we're doing with our hands).

But too, if someone is asymptomatic yet has CV, and they sneeze nearby, you could also be infected by them. Their viral load, therefore, may be significant yet they are either not yet ill or may not become ill - these different outcomes for various people are not yet fully understood, as far as I know.

Therefore, it would be interesting for you to check with your mentor and verify that you understood her correctly and/or if she has received new information that has updated the information she had been working with. It is dangerous for a health care worker, especially a teacher, to be teaching the incorrect information that asymptomatic people can't infect others. I believe experts are saying that is not the *main* driving force behind the worldwide contagion but it is significant enough that it's a serious factor to consider. An asymptomatic person could have a viral load strong enough to endanger others.


2. kathleen - re the virus being in the air: I agree that it has been quite confusing as the information seems to change daily. For at least one day I got the scary impression from various reports that indeed the virus was airborne (which would mean swirling all around us, making me think we're just doomed to get it).

I believe, from various sources I've read, that experts are now saying that CV is *not* an *airborne* disease. However, the infection can spread from person to person via droplets in the air that are released by infected persons, by coughing or sneezing, or by touching objects with their hands that may be contaminated with the virus if they have previously touched their face (nose, mouth) and CV is then transferred to their hands and thereafter potentially to objects or persons that they touch.

The distinction between being airborne and being passed by droplet or transfer can be confusing. The droplets are in the air. But they're only present if an infected person has expelled them there.


3. Here is an article that discusses the means of transfer and the "shelf life" of the virus (to answer kathleen's question about how long the virus can last on a surface).

First, I have laid out excerpts that address some of the specific common questions. After that I have added more statements from the article.

It's worthwhile to read the entire article (I left out parts about experiments they conducted to find out the information they present). It's also a good idea to keep updated with the latest information that comes from the findings of the ongoing experiments and the current conclusions being stated by the experts. And, of course, as always, it's good practice to check the source of your information.

I think the doctor's comment that the virus in the air as you pass by is like "foggy breath on a frosty day" is a good image, and reassuring.

However, too, now they are saying that in addition to the virus being expelled into the air by an infected person's sneeze or cough, it can also be released by the mere acts of speaking and breathing. Hence the value of the 6-foot distance between us that we should vigilantly try to maintain (many people don't seem to know what 6-feet looks like and they wander too close). It's likely this is how choir members got infected, being in close quarters and singing - all that breath being forcefully expressed into the air next to each other. So unfortunate.


The article, for more complete information:

Economic Times (NY, April 2, 2020)

By Apoorva Mandavilli


Excerpts:

“The coronavirus can live for three days on some surfaces, like plastic and steel, new research suggests.”

“When the virus becomes suspended in droplets smaller than 5 micrometers — known as aerosols — it can stay suspended for about a half-hour, researchers said, before drifting down and settling on surfaces where it can linger for hours.”

“The virus lives longest on plastic and steel, surviving for up to 72 hours. But the amount of viable virus decreases sharply over this time. It does poorly on copper, surviving four hours. On cardboard, it survives up to 24 hours, which suggests packages that arrive in the mail should have only low levels of the virus — unless the delivery person has coughed or sneezed on it or has handled it with contaminated hands.”

“That’s true in general. Unless the people who handle any of these materials are sick, the actual risk of getting infected from any of these materials is low, experts said.”

“Everything at the grocery store and restaurant takeout containers and bags could in theory have infectious virus on them,” said Dr. Linsey Marr…”

“Marr said based on physics, an aerosol released at a height of about 6 feet would fall to the ground after 34 minutes. The findings should not cause the general public to panic, however, because the virus disperses quickly in the air.”

“It sounds scary,” she said, “but unless you’re close to someone, the amount you’ve been exposed to is very low.”

“Marr compared this to cigarette smoke or a foggy breath on a frosty day. The closer and sooner another person is to the exhaled smoke or breath, the more of a whiff they might catch; for anyone farther than a few feet away, there is too little of the virus in the air to be any danger.”


Summary of article (a bit repetitious with info from above):

“The coronavirus can live for three days on some surfaces, like plastic and steel, new research suggests. Experts say the risk of consumers getting infected from touching those materials is still low, although they offered additional warnings about how long the virus survives in air, which may have important implications for medical workers.

“The new study, published on Tuesday in the New England Journal of Medicine, also suggests that the virus disintegrates over the course of a day on cardboard, lessening the worry among consumers that deliveries will spread the virus during this period of staying and working from home.

“When the virus becomes suspended in droplets smaller than 5 micrometers — known as aerosols — it can stay suspended for about a half-hour, researchers said, before drifting down and settling on surfaces where it can linger for hours. The finding on aerosol in particular is inconsistent with the World Health Organization’s position that the virus is not transported by air.

“The virus lives longest on plastic and steel, surviving for up to 72 hours. But the amount of viable virus decreases sharply over this time. It does poorly on copper, surviving four hours. On cardboard, it survives up to 24 hours, which suggests packages that arrive in the mail should have only low levels of the virus — unless the delivery person has coughed or sneezed on it or has handled it with contaminated hands.

“That’s true in general. Unless the people who handle any of these materials are sick, the actual risk of getting infected from any of these materials is low, experts said.

“Everything at the grocery store and restaurant takeout containers and bags could in theory have infectious virus on them,” said Dr. Linsey Marr, who was not a member of the research team but is an expert in the transmission of viruses by aerosol at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg. “We could go crazy discussing these ‘what-ifs’ because everyone is a potential source, so we have to focus on the biggest risks.”

“If people are concerned about the risk, they could wipe down packages with disinfectant wipes and wash their hands, she said.

“It is unclear why cardboard should be a less hospitable environment for the virus than plastic or steel, but it may be explained by the absorbency or fibrous quality of the packaging compared with the other surfaces.

“The virus lives longest on plastic and steel, surviving for up to 72 hours. But the amount of viable virus decreases sharply over this time. It does poorly on copper, surviving four hours. On cardboard, it survives up to 24 hours, which suggests packages that arrive in the mail should have only low levels of the virus — unless the delivery person has coughed or sneezed on it or has handled it with contaminated hands.

“That’s true in general. Unless the people who handle any of these materials are sick, the actual risk of getting infected from any of these materials is low, experts said.

“Everything at the grocery store and restaurant takeout containers and bags could in theory have infectious virus on them,” said Dr. Linsey Marr, who was not a member of the research team but
A study that is being reviewed by experts bears out this fear. And another study, published March 4 in JAMA, also indicates that the virus is transported by air. That study, based in Singapore, found the virus on a ventilator in the hospital room of an infected patient, where it could only have reached via the air.

“Marr said that the World Health Organization has so far referred to the virus as not airborne but that health care workers should wear gear, including respirator masks, assuming that it is.

“Based on aerosol science and recent findings on flu virus,” she said, “surgical masks are probably insufficient.”

“Marr said based on physics, an aerosol released at a height of about 6 feet would fall to the ground after 34 minutes. The findings should not cause the general public to panic, however, because the virus disperses quickly in the air.

“It sounds scary,” she said, “but unless you’re close to someone, the amount you’ve been exposed to is very low.”

“Marr compared this to cigarette smoke or a foggy breath on a frosty day. The closer and sooner another person is to the exhaled smoke or breath, the more of a whiff they might catch; for anyone farther than a few feet away, there is too little of the virus in the air to be any danger.

“Munster noted that, overall, the new coronavirus seems no more capable of surviving for long periods than its close cousins SARS and MERS, which caused previous epidemics. That suggests there are other reasons, such as transmission by people who don’t have symptoms, for its ability to cause a pandemic.”


https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/how-long-can-coronavirus-live-on-surfaces-or-in-the-air/articleshow/74690737.cms

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: April 04, 2020 10:08AM

Southern Alberta here. I go to town for groceries, mail and other essentials once a week...and when I was in yesterday there was a lot of traffic...more than I expected. The parking lot at Costco was 3/4 full with a huge, evenly spaced lineup at the door...only letting in a small number at a time. Glad I didn't renew my membership. Safeway has senior hour from 7-8 AM so that's when I went. Most businesses have erected Plexiglas shields in front of all the tills and have stop spots on the floor for distancing.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: April 04, 2020 10:11AM

Wal-Mart, Home Depot, and Lowe's are packed no matter what time you go. I think a lot of people have nowhere else to go, so they are crowding the stores that are open. Normally I pick up a few things from Home Depot, but I won't be going there again any time soon.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: April 04, 2020 10:29AM

Are missionaries still having regular district, zone and mission meetings during which they shake hands, do ‘abrazos’ and in general trample Social Distancing requirements.

Are their leaders allowing, or even encouraging, some notion that their calling protects them?

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: April 04, 2020 02:01PM

A nearby rest home has 27 cases discovered yesterday. That's bad news for this area.

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Posted by: cuzx ( )
Date: April 04, 2020 04:54PM


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