A few times in my time as a Mormon I experienced something quite bizarre. I had the same feeling of having this experience when I overheard Priesthood Grand Poohbah Nelson start his shout. I couldn't quite put a finger on why it bothered me until today. It took almost two days for my brain to make this connection.

The scenario is thusly - a man with a LDS leadership position stands up (well, once it was in F&T meeting and they didn't have a leadership position) at the podium and with or without the right handed squared invokes some pretend power over the congregation.

It happened when I was a kid. It happened when I was on my mission. It happened as an adult and now the friggin' president of the church made me feel this uncomfortable feeling from their priesthood posturing.

And the men that did this were either Mormon nutcases or trying some super spiritual angle and where the jerks.

The only other time I experienced this on television was Bruce Almighty and his "last testimony" thing. It would super uncomfortable for me and I felt like it was posturing trying to be some kind of super special spiritual thing.

Ugh! IT must be endemic in Mormonism?

I had something similar happen that caught my attention immediately for a brief moment. I was a volunteer firefighter in a very small rural community. One day during the Summer there was a wildfire down along the river. There was a breeze pushing the fire along. We were paged out and responded with our meager fire fighting equipment. We decided to get in front of the fire and with a hand carried pump in the stream, stop it from going any further.

It was a challenge to get in front of the fire, and excitement was running high. One of our firemen was a high councilman and highly respected. As we were setting up the pump he stood in front of the fire, held his arm to the square, and in the name of Jesus Christ he commanded the fire to stop. I looked at him, then looked at the fire, and for a very brief moment thought I was going to witness some awesome greatness.

Well, the fire didn't stop. We had to abandon the pump & hoses in the stream, and make a hasty retreat up the hillside. Another fire company further downstream stopped the fire with their pumper trucks. I never discussed this with anyone, it was too absurd. Much like the hanky waving thing.

The fire didn’t obey the holy priesthood of god? It will burn in hell!

Lucifer spoiled their water pumps. He has control you know.

Well, God just didn't want the fire to stop.

My father used that excuse once after giving a priesthood blessing to a less-active woman who was sick; he said he wanted to bless her that she would heal completely but "Heavenly Father didn't want me to say that."

Yeah, lot of power you've got there. Conveniently impotent anytime it would actually matter.

Morg leaders have to “assume the mantle of leadership,” so they distance themselves through various mind games—making grandeous gestures, using very formal language, and adopting superior holier-than-thou attitudes.

As I had a no-contact directive in my resignation, it’s been a while since my local leaders stopped by for a “we love you” chat. When they did in the past the above were very evident.

"...it’s been a while since my local leaders stopped by for a “we love you” chat."

What's love got to do with it? What's love but a secondhand revelation? Thanks to another poster for this refrain.

The Boner in Tina’s Stiletto Heels.

Pics or it didn't happen ;)

I’ve been thinking about this the last day or so too. Someone made a suggestion to me that perhaps deep down mormons know their religion is BS. I didn’t think so, because the brainwashing is real. But then I thought: no one has ever addressed the historically accurate points I made as reasons for resigning. Why is this?
The person I was talking to theorised that mormons who have a system that works well for them have no reason to question things because they wouldn’t want to leave anyway. If you add things like supposed priesthood (aka godlike) powers into the mix, then it makes that point even more valid. It only struck me relatively recently how proud and pompous a lot of priesthood holders sound when they either talk about it or “invoke” their “powers”.
Mormons do not know who they are as individuals. They do not know themselves. Like the narcissist who develops a false sense of self that they cannot question because it would mean total self destruction, mormons have a false sense of self that is purely all about being mormon: special, unique, powerful, protected, superior, godlike, and so on.
Probably everyone can relate to this when I say how frustrating it is to be talking to loved ones who seem to have lost who they are. Add to that the embarrassment of seeing them invoke the priesthood and all its related bullshit, and it’s painful as well as funny. Then add to that their declarations of us being the sinners, the lost, the confused, and it becomes a total utter mindf***

Mormonism, and in particular, the priesthood, is like the shell of narcissism. And only those not under the same spell can see it for the fake nonsense that it is. But it is disturbing to witness.

Excellent assessment. You articulated what I obviously couldn't. Narcissism may be a part of it for those people for whom everything has to relate to their sense of self or not be real to them. I think your description of a "spell" they are under it supremely accurate. It can encompass others not as deluded by narcissism like the man Colleen(cl2) below is describing.

IT is a "priesthood" spell they call a "mantle" that supposedly grants them special powers to be high and mighty.


The funny thing is this "power" in some men has to have an outward expression for them. Be it narcissism or any other mental issue but they have to have something external to make them feel their "mantle" or just their "priesthood" like the guy I saw stand up in F&T Meeting and try to exorcise the bad feelings some people had for each other in the ward.

Yes, also well put. Imagine how preposterous this behaviour would really seem without a supposed priesthood. It would constitute obvious and legitimate mental issues and unbelievable arrogance.
So whenever I hear of this I think of the damage Mormonism is doing to people. But when it’s taken to the extreme I can’t help thinking these men already had personality problems.
As for the women who don’t have that excuse I see another pattern and it’s more passive aggressive. But I guess that’s another topic!

At first I thought he could see me through the TV and was going to command me to depart in the name of his master.

When I realized that he was blessing us, I thought how stupid it would look if not seen in context. But upon further thought I realized that the actual context was pretty stupid, too.

Same thing with the ho shout. If one observed three people waving handkerchiefs and reciting crazy lyrics you would throw a few bucks into their guitar case and laugh your bum off.

Millions of mormon adherents took this seriously.

Lowpriest Wrote:
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> Millions of mormon adherents took this seriously.

I wonder how much?

So their temple is ridiculous. Everything about it including this hanky waving. But...

The Mormons I know/I've known well seem to box up all this ridiculous nonsense into a "sacred" box easily ignored. So Nelson dragging this box to their bully pulpit is even more ridiculous. My wife and daughter didn't hanky wave or recite. They just let it happen and life goes on.

Mormonism is just a cycling of men trying to feel empowered by their Mormonism and the adherents mainly just tolerating their intolerant "leaders" and jumping through signs and tokens and boring meetings and pretending to believe what they take to heart is actually reflected in all of the male-dominated posturing and policy making and enabling this male empowerment via "religion."

Yeah, I am probably assuming that it is taken seriously based on my observations. I really have no way of knowing who is only going through the motions.

Your idea of a sacred box makes sense. I have often wondered how otherwise intelligent people put up with such nonsense. Maybe it is simply mental categories. Assignment to the sacred box gives permission to not think about it outside the confines of the box. Interesting...

Lowpriest Wrote:
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> Assignment to the sacred box
> gives permission to not think about it outside the
> confines of the box.

It works on so many levels. Their historical inaccuracies - put them in a box. Crazy in the temple - put it in a box. The priesthood didn't work - put it in a box. Focus on callings, genealogy, cleaning the chapel, youth stuff. Leave the boxes on the shelf until one has to take them down and dig into them and then put them up there as fast as you can to get on with life.

Genera Conference is about as reverent to many Mormons as last Sunday's lesson - in other words not at all.

become total asses. I have a close friend who I worked with for years. He is about 10 years old than I am and when he became a bishop, all of a sudden, he started having this attitude of being so special. He's the one who told me that if I had given my husband enough sex, he wouldn't have cheated. (A lot of the leaders told me I had to make sure I gave him a lot of sex after we married.) I am friends with him again just recently. It took years after that last statement and I called him out on it. At first, it brought me to my knees.

But it also seems that those who don't think they are that great tend to take this priesthood on and think they are something special. I saw Rusty as a fool waving that handkerchief. I thought Dallin was more genuine in that he looked like he didn't want to be doing it.

The bishop I had as a teenager was one of these men. He would get up and brag about how special he was in church. He was a pervert. If I posted his name again, you could take a look at him, but it shows up on google when I post his name. ha ha ha I cheered when he died about 2 years ago. Took him long enough.

It seems to me that if someone is secure in who they are, they don't need to let "power" go to their head. I worked with some wonderful mormon men who were bishops and SPs and they were always good to everyone including all the nonmormons we worked with. They all loved these guys. My boyfriend knew them and loved working with them.

My boyfriend works with men who have been SPs and bishops and everyone there defers to them on everything like they are something special. It drives him nuts.

I actually told the bishop a few bishops ago that he had no authority over me. He was trying to bear his testimony to me in e-mails. I told him to leave me alone.

My friend seems to have lost that attitude. He has a HUGE issue in his life right now. I'd take my gay/straight marriage over what he is dealing with right now any day. I just happened to be driving by his house (off the beaten path) on my way to see my best friend on Christmas Eve and I decided to go see him. It was wonderful to have him back in my life as he really is a good guy.

But I just thought old Rusty looked like a total fool.

cl2 Wrote:
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> But I just thought old Rusty looked like a total
> fool.

And an old one at that.

cl2 Wrote:
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> It seems to me that if someone is secure in who
> they are, they don't need to let "power" go to
> their head.

Spot on!

This actually helps me better understand why some church leaders were so inept. Clearly, they used threats, fear and intimation to control members.

EB,

I had a youth temple trip that involved Brother Blowhard becoming upset and nearly crashing us in his station wagon. This involved a teacher in the very back of the wagon quietly listening to his non-church music. Of course, Blowhard blew up when the cassette tape was found to be Satanic (it was Ozzy, Judas Priest or Iron Maiden). So at the side of I-80, we were told to form a tight circle. We all had to raise our arm to the square (and rest it on the shoulder) while Blowhard proceeded to cast out Satan from our midst.

-And some members don't understand why we can't just bury the hatchet and come back to church.

How do you reconcile all of these awful nightmares from inspired church leaders?

messygoop Wrote:
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> We
> all had to raise our arm to the square (and rest
> it on the shoulder) while Blowhard proceeded to
> cast out Satan from our midst.
>
> -And some members don't understand why we can't
> just bury the hatchet and come back to church.
>
> How do you reconcile all of these awful nightmares
> from inspired church leaders?

I'm a child of the 80s. There were all sorts of firesides and talks circulating like this stuff.

http://musicweird.blogspot.com/2019/10/sex-and-satan-don-j-blacks-1980s-mormon.html

I remember leaders telling me about feeling the devil, demons and cast them out, exorcisms, playing records backwards. IT was a verifiable cornucopia of paranoia.

One doesn't reconcile "inspired" with paranoia in my youth and "inspired" nowadays with hanky waving and "Mormon" is a bad word.

I don't know how older people, older than me (49) can even stay on board with the ever changing goal posts of inspiration and their almost 100 year old prophet is the one at the head of moving these posts.

...to get to the kids today."

Well dang; I grew up in the '80s but Satan never offered me sorcery! I must have been shortchanged.

I agree with you and am baffled why anyone would continue with the church. It treats parents and grandparents shabby.

My Mom is holding out that the next profit after Rusty will see the errors and restore home teaching to its former glory. Lol

messygoop Wrote:
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> It treats parents and
> grandparents shabby.

And yet gets them to do their dirty work.