I know that this is one of his main ideas. Just like getting rid of the name Mormon was.
Members of the Church where I live are telling me that Dusty is telling him that we must be prepared to gather Israel together. Now is the time. Does anyone know of the plan and how it will be done? I know that the sisters in my area are all excited to be part of this process. But don't you need a plan?
I think this is all part of the smoke and mirrors that he, Wendy and the Dew are putting together to sell books, etc. Look at how many little statues they are selling. Look at how many books are in the book store written by Dusty and Wendy. A friend took me to a Church book store in Cardston, AB. I almost fell over at the amt of books that these two have produced.Then I almost fell over at the rest of the stuff that they had to sell to TBM. Its a business unto itself.Who says religion does not pay?
Back to the gathering. How are the saints suppose to help and do this?

Sincere question from a sincere Jew:

What (in an LDS sense) is "the gathering of Israel"?

In Jewish culture, the word "Israel" can mean: the present nation state of Israel....or the "people Israel" [means: Jews collectively, from ancient times to contemporary times]....or ancient Israel (the Israel of the Bible), but none of these three have anything to do with Mormons or with LDS life or culture.

Inside every Jew is a Mormon fighting to get out. That’s why Mormons can’t seem to stop baptizing them. How would living Jews know what their dead want?

Mormons are restorationists who think they are Christians who think they are Jews. It’s easier than traditional Judaism. It’s like becoming a doctor by taking a 3-day course in brain surgery. The stake patriarch says what tribe you’re from and you’re in. Any you can still eat pork.

bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Inside every Jew is a Mormon fighting to get out.
> That’s why Mormons can’t seem to stop
> baptizing them. How would living Jews know what
> their dead want?
>
> Mormons are restorationists who think they are
> Christians who think they are Jews. It’s easier
> than traditional Judaism. It’s like becoming a
> doctor by taking a 3-day course in brain surgery.
> The stake patriarch says what tribe you’re from
> and you’re in. Any you can still eat pork.

Thanks, bradley.

I kinda understand now.

Sorta.

Maybe.

The Mormons are like “You’re God’s chosen people? So are we! We’re practically family. You want to learn about Jesus?”.

According to the allegory of the olive tree, they consider themselves to have been grafted into the tree of the twelve tribes of Israel.

The "gathering of Israel" is an expansive concept in mormonism. The current state of Israel is specific to Judah, but "Israel" to mormons means all 12 tribes supposedly descended from Jacob.

The theology is that Ephraim, son of Joseph, received Jacob's birthright. (Scriptural justification is Genesis 48:14-20 and 1 Chronicles 5:1.) The church has arrogated to itself that particular lineage, and it has the conceit that the 12 tribes of Israel are to be restored and brought together under its direction prior to and concurrent with the second coming of Jeezus.

This is the reason most patriarchal blessings name the recipient as a descendant of Ephraim, why there was such a monster missionary program in the first place (looking for missing Ephraimites – not kidding), and why the "lost" Ten Tribes have been such a huge deal in mormonism.

Mormons believe that all members are Israelites - most by direct descent, a few by adoption.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-42-the-gathering-of-the-house-of-israel?lang=en

"In view of the foregoing statements, we can see that the lineages declared in patriarchal blessings are almost always statements of actual blood lines; they are not simply tribal identifications by assignment."


"The power and authority to direct the work of gathering the house of Israel was given to Joseph Smith by the prophet Moses, who appeared in 1836 in the Kirtland Temple (see D&C 110:11). Since that time, each prophet has held the keys for the gathering of the house of Israel, and this gathering has been an important part of the Church’s work. The covenant people are now being gathered as they accept the restored gospel and serve the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (see Deuteronomy 30:1–5).

The Israelites are to be gathered spiritually first and then physically. They are gathered spiritually as they join The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and make and keep sacred covenants. This spiritual gathering began during the time of the Prophet Joseph Smith and continues today all over the world. Converts to the Church are Israelites either by blood or adoption. They belong to the family of Abraham and Jacob (see Abraham 2:9–11; Galatians 3:26–29)."


https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1991/01/of-the-house-of-israel?lang=eng

"Several leaders of the Church in this dispensation have discussed various aspects of the topic of heirship and adoption.

“Are most members of the Church literal descendants of Abraham by birth?”

President Joseph Fielding Smith made it clear that a majority of the members of the Church today are descendants of Israel and thus of Abraham:

“The Lord said he would scatter Israel among the Gentile nations, and by doing so he would bless the Gentile nations with the blood of Abraham. Today we are preaching the gospel in the world and we are gathering out, according to the revelations given to Isaiah, Jeremiah, and other prophets, the scattered sheep of the House of Israel. These scattered sheep are coming forth mixed with Gentile blood from their Gentile forefathers. Under all the circumstances it is very possible that the majority, almost without exception, of those who come into the Church in this dispensation have the blood of two or more of the tribes of Israel as well as the blood of the Gentiles.” (Answers to Gospel Questions, 5 vols., Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1957–66, 3:63.)"

"Joseph Fielding Smith: “Every person who embraces the gospel becomes of the house of Israel. In other words, they become members of the chosen lineage, or Abraham’s children through Isaac and Jacob unto whom the promises were made. The great majority of those who become members of the Church are literal descendants of Abraham through Ephraim, son of Joseph. Those who are not literal descendants of Abraham and Israel must become such, and when they are baptized and confirmed they are grafted into the tree and are entitled to all the rights and privileges as heirs.” (Doctrines of Salvation, 3 vols., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1954–56, 3:246.)"

The links will go into much more detail on this issue.

Tevai,

The Gathering of Israel has multiple meanings in Mormon theology.

1) Since Mormons are the descendants of Israelites, their gathering to the restored gospel is one form. That originally meant literally joining the Saints in Ohio or Missouri or Utah. In recent decades it has lost the literal meaning and come to imply simply the conversion to the true religion.

2) Since Jews are a covenant people, the establishment of modern Israel is another form of gathering. As with fundamentalist Christians, this belief is almost completely unqualified: Mormons will support the state of Israel without regard to what it does domestically or internationally.

3) When Jesus returns, there will be two gatherings: one in Utah and then Missouri, the other in Jerusalem. Jesus will touch the hearts of the Jewish peoples in Israel and they will fall to their knees in worship of him and gratitude towards their wiser cousins, the Mormons.

4) In the Millennium there will be two centers of divine guidance. The religious law will emanate from Utah/Missouri/Zion while the secular law, the government, will come forth from Jerusalem. Utah, after all, has the true prophets.

I hope that has clarified things for you: it has confused the hell outta me.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hope that has clarified things for you: it has
> confused the hell outta me.

:D

Thank you, LW!

:)

I am having some difficulty visualizing the population of Tel Aviv decamping to Missouri...

Perdition Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am having some difficulty visualizing the
> population of Tel Aviv decamping to Missouri...

So would the theoretically beleaguered people of Missouri:

In Israel, Tel Aviv is the "happening" place: outre, frequently outrageous, extremely LGBT friendly, non-judgmental, iconoclastic, accepting.

Definitely NOT a good fit with the culture of Missouri. (Some of my relatives came from Missouri; some of my relatives right now were born and raised in Missouri.)

In Christian theology, there's a concept called "Replacement theology," which goes like this: The Christian church, however defined,* "replaced" the Jews/Hebrew nation/Israel, because they rejected Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah. Thus, the promises and blessings of the Patriarchs (Abraham, et al) are transferred to Christians/the Church, who replace Israel as the chosen people.

This shows up more in Catholicism, which considers itself (somewhat, these days) as the true Church. Protestants in general, and Evangelicals/Fundamentalists in particular, do not subscribe to this. Pentecostals? No idea.

Now, along comes Horny Joe who creates doctrine...creatively. An important part of this is that LDS is "the one true Church," thanks to his Restoration. Now, THEY are the chosen people, the "new Israel." So their claim to be the new Israel seems to be:

1) the Apostolic (1st Century) Church replaces Israel
2) the LDS Restoration supplants the apostate "Christians" of the past 2,000 years, making them:
3) the new Israel

Problem: their claim to being Hebrews is thinner than fishing line. To strengthen it, they spiritually assign Hebrew tribal lineage in the patriarchal blessing, with a promise that all these LDS spiritualized Israelites will be "gathered" in some unspecified, mystical way in the Endtimes They also claim that their temple rituals derive from Solomon.

Thus, if I have it right, the "gathering of Israel" is a combination of a fictional past, a spiritualized present, and a prophesied future.

*the Church of Christ is defined by some in specifically ecclesiastical terms (e.g. Catholicism), a mystical body of believers (most Protestants), or patriarchal succession (Eastern Orthodox). There are variations and combinations of this. Then there's the One True Church...

Is there ANY indication let alone documentation that Sir Nelson has Ever mentioned this and/or is genuinely interested /thinks this will happen?

seriously.

Did they dump the “everybody needs to walk to Missouri?”

The only thing more devastating to Rusty is the literal fulfillment of biblical prophecy and especially without his hand in it.

With the quarantine in place, Israel is all gathered in their homes and nothing to do with them.

Gone are the days that apostles stood up to an actual crowd and useless is the witness for the printed name of Christ. (Adobe has all font types certified in court of law for humankind)

So what are jews and gentiles to do?
Does the Tiger King have his own bible?
Maybe God needs to communicate through him.
Focus groups find him better suited for the job.

I think Rusty sees the pandemic as a sign. I think someone (if not me) posted a list of the things that brought about the pandemic and how Rusty was right on top of things like making church 2 hours and doing family teaching at home for 1 hour. FB ended up removing the list as many people complained about it as I saw them making comments about it on the pages of people who posted this.

I think Rusty and Wendy actually really do believe they will lead the church into the millenium. They are so full of their importance.

I think it started at that Jewish funeral in NY a week or tow ago, but they had to shut it down due to Covid-19. So I guess we'll just have to wait a while longer for it.

Okay, I'm being a bit cynical, but I don't believe he sees it actually happening at all. Mostly he sees it happening in terms of cash and real estate.

Rusty's fulfillment of this will be when LDS inc. finally closes on their land deal south of Haifa and begins development for retirement community condos.

It will be called the Gathering at Israel and will feature its own Dead Sea Creek Mall. This is only way mormons could ever make this prophecy occur.

Why would Rusty want to gather them when they can pay online ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2020 02:11AM by kathleen.

About the only time I heard the gathering to Missouri mentioned was at a Relief Society catered dinner where one person enjoying all the food said: "This is great. When the call comes to return to Missouri I'm going to travel in the Relief Society wagon."