I remember back there was a general authority that told a heartwarming story about his wife suffering with, I think it was, arthritis. This made ironing hard for her. So this braniac decides to eat homemade lunch for a while to save up for a fancy new iron that would make ironing easier.

The man couldn't iron his own clothes. Nope, no time I guess. Wifey suffered for what was it months? a year? so they could get a new tool for her. I guarantee you even after it probably wasn't some wonderful cure-all that made ironing a breeze. It probably hurt slightly less.

Then I remember a bishop who when we visited his home, was eating soup out of a can. He said that his wife was off doing some RS thing. So he made his own dinner. Meanwhile the rest of the family could just "eat what they wanted" from the kitchen. Multiple dinner projects being made in the kitchen a big stack of dishes left behind. This bishop was proud of himself for this.

Its not egregious or anything, its just a mentality. If mom doesn't do it, then lets do some poor half-thought-out substitute.

Today, most women with families work. Regardless of the image the church tries to paint, most women work. Still they push this idea that all women are mother hens, tending to their chicks and building their nests.

There is a strong line of demarcation between what men do and what women do in the church. Men earn money and women are homemakers. Most husbands have accepted, to an extent, the women bringing home money, but they don't for the most part step in and take actual responsibility for home matters.

And it shouldn't be considered unusual to clean up after yourself or make a meal for your family or scrub a toilet. Having an inny or an outy for genitalia should have nothing to do with your capability to see something that needs to be done and to step in and take care of it.

No mom shouldn't have to do it later.


Conversely, I think it happens less now, but women shouldn't act like they need men to do things either. You can change your own oil or mow the lawn or fix that plumbing issue. A man out working doesn't want to come home to any extra chores either.

Once again. If you are an adult and you see something that needs to be take care of, at least try to handle it yourself in a competent way. Don't take shoddy, or even no measures, just because you see it as your spouse's responsibility.

"Conversely, I think it happens less now, but women shouldn't act like they need men to do things either. You can change your own oil or mow the lawn or fix that plumbing issue. A man out working doesn't want to come home to any extra chores either."

Funny you used changing oil, mowing the lawn and fixing plumbing issues as examples - tasks that are not done every day. Cooking and cleaning is daily drudgery for most woman - thankless tasks believed to be "women's work." Some men change the oil (I take my car to a professional oil changers) maybe every three months or so and mow the lawn (many have gardeners) once a week and think it's comparable to daily cooking, cleaning, changing diapers, etc. You must be a man.

Hahahaha! What "Heartbroken" said.

It was also a generational issue. The Silent Generation for the most part had a strict division of labor that dated back to their parents' time when keeping house was a full time job (washing done on a scrub board or with a tub and wringer, carpets hand beaten, heavy irons that were heated on the stove, etc.) The Silent Generation had the benefit of labor-saving devices (clothes washers and dryers, electric or gas stoves, electric irons, etc.) that began to transform the job of a housewife without otherwise transforming the culture (author and feminist Betty Friedan referred to this as "the problem that has no name," in which housewives sometimes started to feel at loose ends.) This started to change with the Baby Boomers as women from that generation began to enter the workforce. I remember my sister-in-law putting my brother through a long and often painful training process, teaching him how to cook and do other household tasks.

Even after men got the memo, working women to this day often carry the majority of the burden of cooking, housework, and childcare.

Mormon culture in many ways got stuck in the 50s and 60s, including the traditional division of labor. Although many more Mormon women work nowadays, the attitudes may yet lag behind.

This was many years ago: A bishop from a neighboring ward came to our ward for a fireside. He was the father of 5 girls. At the fireside he bragged that he had never changed a diaper. I was single at the time and all I could think is that this guy is an asshole. A few years later he was found to be abusing women as a bishop. There were so many incidents like this that I often keep wondering why did I not question the veracity of this cult sooner?

than perhaps anyone posting here. However, you have touched a nerve with me.

As a mom and now grandmom who loves "making" (and I do me "making") a home and as someone married to an exmo, I want to say that my exmo "7th generation, pioneer, raised in UT (now ex) Mo husband" is only slightly more short-sighted in this area than many men tend to be.

The fact of the matter is that making and keeping a home (even when the kids are all out of the nest) is MORE than a full time job. That's the honest truth. And when a woman works outside the home it is nearly impossible to juggle it all.

I have a dear aunt and uncle who, at my uncle's insistence, sold their beautiful home many years ago and moved into a condo several years after he retired from his job. Moving into a condo means no more house maintenance and my uncle pays someone to repair appliances and the cars. This leaves him with next to nothing to do around the condo except take out the garbage.
I remember my aunt saying "oh yes, he's retiring...when do I get to retire?" This uncle helps out more than most since he clears the table, sometimes does dishes and will vacuum. But , still, she's left with more work than him.

*Standing up and applauding*

Sadly, I saw this behavior even if the woman of the house worked or financially contributed from a side job. Housekeeping was still at hers, because no way could her "job" be nearly as beneficial as his.

My ex TBM spouse considered himself enlightened and did some minor tasks at home all the time. Washed dishes, laundry, etc. But the longer we were married his mindset shifted to one of a martyr. He told people that he helped and he got mixed reactions from awe to pity.

He came home and decided he shouldn't have to do more although we both worked full time jobs. I was "the homemaker". The attitude shift into "I do so much around here..to I do everything!" Everything was a rare load of dishes put away or his own laundry done to his strict preferences. Meanwhile, I did all the child rearing, and all the other tasks that needed to be done. If I let a sinkful of dishes soak after dinner to watch a TV show, he told me I was slacking off.

His income was HIS to manage. My income was seen as fun money. He wanted to control all the expenditures and dole out an allowance to me. I reminded him that I contributed to all the household expenses, tithed, and saved for all our fun stuff from my income. I made half of what he did. Any extra income he spent on frivolous stuff or treats for himself. I finally got into the habit of setting aside money for myself monthly and treating MYSELF to something, but it was usually practical. A pair of workshoes, a haircut, etc.

I started to stand up for myself and that was a huge shift in our marriage, He told me it was my duty to put the family first in all things. So I asked him if he would set the example for that as the leader of the house. Instead of treating himself to a nice lunch out at a pricey restaurant, maybe he could save the money so we could paint the fence or buy new shoes for the kids?

Sacrilege! I overstepped my place as a woman. As far as childcare, if I needed a day out, a Dr appt or to visit family, he would tell me he would babysit FOR me. I nipped that in the bud right away. "You can not babysit your own kids This is called parenting. Thank you" I would always be back on time or call with an ETA. If I was late, I would get the speech of how I needed to manage my time better. If he was late, there was no explanation other than he was "busy" and works so hard as the breadwinner, etc.

When the kids were much older, I would participate in 2 day getaways with friends. What a relief. He would brag to his family about how he managed our TWO kids all weekend. (Poor baby with his sacrifice of making sure they didn't set the house on fire and came home by curfew) His Mom implied I abandoned her poor, helpless son with two functional teenagers. You guessed it, his Mom did everything growing up for him.

When we were first married, I quickly picked up that household tasks for my ex were like playing house. The game got boring and he wanted to play the big boy rules to have all the benefits of a wife with minimum effort into the relationship. During our counseling sessions he told me "I hired you for a job and if I could fire you, I would!"

I told him that I quit "...because my boss was a tyrant and the benefits sucked!"

RMM

There is no such thing as "men's work" or "woman's work". It's all work.

Except the work of pregnancy, labor, delivery, and breastfeeding.

I had the job of staying awake throughout breastfeeding to make sure my wife didn't fall asleep and accidentally smother the babies, then changing the babies if necessary and putting them back into their bassinets. It wasn't as tough as everything my wife had to do, but I helped as much as I could.

The GA was Todd Christofferson and the story was about his asshole father.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2006/10/let-us-be-men?lang=eng

I kinda like gender polarity around here. I’ll be a girly girl if he’ll be a guy-ey guy. I don’t want DH to fold the towels and leave the cement work for me.

Oh, wait ...I take that all back. I like cement work.

I agree, most men are mechanically minded, are the ones who build the houses, fix the cars, plow the fields. Women generally don't like to get as dirty, Don't like to throw hay, don't like to freeze their ass off all day at the construction site.

And at the same rate men generally don't like to cook complicated recipes, sew, do the laundry. We aren't good at serving tables, stewarding guests, Women are just better at that.

"Men are dirty, horny, lazy slobs that are abusive and emotionally unavailable."

That could be true.

"Sure, they're a source of money, but since women are all out working anyway, what's the point of a dude?"

The point is that most girls don't want to work and since they are only making $.7/hour per $1/hour that a man makes they want the man to work. Because men work harder heavier jobs usually and women don't want to work heavy in the heat and cold.

Sorry above post was suppose to go to FreeMans thread

Perhaps you should reread what Kathleen wrote because you really didn't get it.

I've never really understood what attracts women to men.

Men are dirty, horny, lazy slobs that are abusive and emotionally unavailable. Sure, they're a source of money, but since women are all out working anyway, what's the point of a dude?

It would make more sense for women to band together and raise kids, if that's what they wanted. Maybe trade off doing childcare.

Just use sperm donors, which you could select from a catalog, like I do for my cows. No point keeping a bull around all year just to breed a couple cows.

How's that he-man-woman-haters-club working out for you ?

> Just use sperm donors, which you could select from
> a catalog, like I do for my cows.

Yeah, you wrote that.

The reincarnation of Heber C. Kimball

"I think no more of taking another wife than I do of buying a cow."

"Men are dirty, horny, lazy slobs that are abusive and emotionally unavailable."

Free Man thinks that all men are just like him.