On how you play your cards and how you study out playing out the rules

I think its more like how your mission works out depends on how hard you work on your mission. I didn't find it was about playing cards and studying how to play the rules.

We all had different experiences didn't we?

Roy G Biv Wrote:
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> I think its more like how your mission works out
> depends on how hard you work on your mission. I
> didn't find it was about playing cards and
> studying how to play the rules.

Yes, that's why your statement isn't a one size fits all like it reads.

I think if you did an independent scientific survey of missionaries after they have been home a few years, the majority would say their success did not correlate directly with how hard they worked.

In my mission, the game players did much better than the spiritual, work your ass off, true believers.

The top baptizing missionaries were notable rule breakers and mission president a$$ lickers who got assigned to the primo districts in the two large cities with extensive member networks. The hard workers got assigned to tiny towns above the Arctic Circle. Reindeer and Sami had little interest.

My favorite example is one Elder who ended up marrying the MPs daughter and got appointed to an executive position in Zions Bank where Pres was a VP.

The top baptizers were usually very good at selling, often to lonely old ladies who cherished the attention. On of my favorite friends on my mission was a recent convert, who enjoyed breaking the rules, and he baptized many many old ladies, young ladies, housewives but no men. I've lost track of him in the last few years but the last time I talked with him he was a casting director in the Porn industry in Studio City area of LA.

>> "In my mission, the game players did much better than the spiritual, work your ass off, true believers."

In my mission we didn't have game players or spiritual work your ass off true believers. Everyone was pretty laid back from the mission President on down.

My point was....for the most part, you get what you want out of a mission.

I have no idea what idiocy prompted me to volunteer for a mission. As I look back I find no and I mean no justification for it. The longer that I was there he more I saw the whole thing as one big scam.

If the rules were the same back then, you didn’t really volunteer for anything. At best you were manipulated. At worst you didn’t really have a choice. I’ve no idea how I could have converted to that crazy religion, except I know I was brainwashed. In my right mind and without manipulation I just wouldn’t have done such a stupid thing!!

A lot of missionaries back in my day were hung up on baptism numbers. (For all I know, it's the same today.) That measure of "success" was so dependent on which area you went to that any variation in numbers of baptisms should probably be counted as statistical noise. In those days, the usual upshot was: go to South America, Mexico, etc., and baptize a lot of people; go to Europe, and baptize effectively no one.

My mission had an average of 300 baptisms per year across 150-180 missionaries. So basically, every missionary was involved on average in two baptisms on their mission. Activity levels sucked, so anyone you baptized was probably inactive before you went home.

(The fact that this metric was biased against sister missionaries was not a bug, but a feature.)


Another metric might be deepening of your testimony - or from an ex-Mormon perspective maybe the converse metric would be deconversion during your mission. By that perspective, some missionaries saw the light before they left the field. Others (like myself) struggled pointlessly, returning home to waste several more years in the faith - in my case, 10 more.


Another metric might be how much fun you had as a missionary. For me, I got to see a lot of cool places in France, but frankly, I'd have done a hell of a lot better to do a semester or two abroad.


Some might feel they grew up or learned resilience. That might have value, though it's hard to say that they couldn't have gotten that in the Peace Corps, the military, or simply passing through hard times with their family.


I don't have an answer myself. I used to miss the mission. It has prepared me for cutting back and long walking to get more in shape while the world suffers currently. But it also detoured my life from more useful pursuits. So my best response is a shrug.

Tyson

How on earth do you measure a Mormon mission?

On the mission I found myself thrust into myriad immature personality types where one on one contact was unavoidable whereas in my loner youth I had almost no interaction with other guys. Suddenly I found myself thrust into myriad immature personality types where one on one contact was unavoidable. Felt like we had all left the nest with barely emerging feathers and a bit of fluff still clinging. Some started to crow right off the bat, wings flapping to impress Mormon style. Let the races begin!


Cards? I didn't even know I had any cards, let alone conjure a strategy to play them. Subconsciously though, I did begin doing exactly that as I held my cards smashed against my chest. Although I had been doing that since childhood.

Very competitive the mission, I found. Mormonism as sport? And not one I could get into. I played the mission like I played Dodge Ball. Eyes all over the place and ready to side-step as I trudged ahead doing my duty as I always did.


My mission was an eye opener. I saw Mormons in a new way and I saw the world in a new way through the people of a foreign country. Some success to measure there. Gave me a new language and a new perspective. Still use the language everyday. Still honing the perspective.


In the end, my mission was a success for me and no one else.

>> "In the end, my mission was a success for me and no one else."

Exactly!

Two guys in my mission baptized some 60+ young people in a little branch. They were made district leaders (over themselves) because they had to be rewarded for such obedience.

The rest of us were reminded over and over that we weren't obedient and working hard enough. We weren't even worthy of love. That's what our rotten mission president hammered away at every zone conference.

I finally learned the truth when I was transferred closer to the "golden area". These two elders had organized their own "basketball youth league". They were playing basketball everyday of the week. They baptized about 3-4 teams worth of players (and some siblings too). The zone leaders "covered" for them by giving them heads up as to when the MP was going to "pop-in" for a visit.

I finally met one of them during a stake conference. I wanted to see for myself what a righteous elder really was and why an idiot missionary (I followed most of the mission rules that made sense~ I did not eat cracked wheat for breakfast as ordered by the mission president) like myself baptized 2-3 people every other month.

I was not impressed with the guy. He was an asshole and should have been sent to Mars.

There's a pretty major wildcard in terms of just how much of an @$$hole one's mission president is.

What about when MP has some mishs from Royal Parents?

I'll bet most got a head-start.

In my mission, a lot depended on if you came from the right family.
Children of Stake Presidents and Wealthy Businessmen advanced a lot further, and were assigned better locations.
There was one who told me that he didn't actually believe the Church's foundational claims, and that he had told the President that.
He was the nephew of a State Governor, and came from a very wealthy family. He rose to the level of Zone Leader, and repeatedly turned down the MP's request to serve as an AP.

For Hedning- Which part of the Arctic were you in?

My Mission president liked to be challenged and he thrived on competition because he was a lawyer from Idaho.

This was the challenge because "a bet" would be considered gambling. If you beat him at tossing basketball free-throws, then he would buy YOUR lunch. But if you lost then you (and other missionaries who challenged) would have to pay for his lunch.

Any missionary (elder or sister) had to make 14 out 15 shots. 99% were out on their 2nd miss.

Now the MP only had to make 5 out of 10.

Very bad odds, but the MP never bought his lunch during a zone conference.

I only heard about one elder who shot a perfect 15 out of 15. He was rewarded with the am/pm convenience store's special of two hot dogs and a drink combo for about 1.79

Some great reward

I largely babysat the wierdo missionaries.

A mission is largely a self fulfilling prophecy much like the rest of the church.

You can be as spiritual as you want, follow all the rules and you will not baptize more than the disobedient, sloppy sorry saps who are just there to make their libido legal.

I tried as hard I could all of my mission foolishly believing all that hard work=spiritual mumbo jumbo and the areas where I had more baptisms were largely higher member-networked urban centers whereas the rural, stuck in their ways parts where we had to tract into was much less production. Same level of effort, not the same results.

Of course, that fits with church view of teaching through members but so does AmWay. The product cannot stand on its own so it has to be sold through affiliate marketing.

Looking back, my mission is a source of real regret as I misled all those people. Some I got a hold of and told them I did not have all the facts and it was a cult.

I did the mission thing because my friends from Church were all going. A ton of us submitted our papers at the same time. My parents were not supportive and I also wanted to get away from home.
I got called to a place so far and different that I thanked God because I wanted to get as far away as I could.
My first MP never spoke the local language, his APs were all Americans and he only liked you if you were successful.
With success came privileges. You could leave your area on days other than P-days, you could listen to music (not only the MoTab or classical), and of course at every mission conference it was,
"Elders you need to be like Elder X." He's one of the top performers, is obedient, (performer?) and you all need to be like him.
I had no idea about mission politics but it was alive and well in our mission. I was not from UT (and Utahns seemed to be the ones all called to higher positions, ZL and AP) I was a district leader, my districts did great.
I was serious but I had fun as well. I'd knock doors with no expectations and we had some really great members. All new and recent converts.
If somebody slammed a door in my face, so what. There are other doors to knock.
I was successful. Top "performer" baptising good people like there was no tomorrow. Families only, not just girls who flirted with me.
I was a convert as well and the MP also mentioned it often. I wanted to hide under the chair at Mission conferences.
There was so much jealousy that one AP who had wanted to open a town I was sent to, made up a story and told the MP who didn't want to hear the truth, and a couple of weeks later I was sent to the "hell hole" of the mission.
Here I was, the "golden boy." I could do no wrong, life was good. Suddenly I was a victim.
Sent out to the farthest reaches of the mission to an area where nobody went to Church and baptisms were few and far between.
Out of sight, out of mind.
As missionaries do gossip, I found out that the AP was really happy I was getting my "reward." I was downgraded to junior companion as well.
My companion had major issues and after 4 months finally went home. I started moving up the totem pole again. DL.
In my district I had missionaries who have since moved WAY up in the Church. One (whose name I will not mention) never worked. He screwed off all of the time and I told the ZLs and MP who didn't care. As long as we were baptising. (He didn't.) This Elder said he was going to become an AP and then a GA and have a lot of money. He did. Never worked for it, just knew how to play the game and he was VERY ambitious.
I got sick on my mission. I kept working because it was a sign of weakness or lack of dedication if one complained.
The MP went home, a new one showed up. Totally different.
BUT there was still that politics until the old APs went home.
I was so depressed that I was contemplating going home.
I was still out of sight and out of mind.
Finally an old friend from a district we worked in got promoted to the Mission Home.
My companions from the LTM (MTC) were all being promoted to ZLs and I was still just a senior companion in a crappy area.
I was getting more depressed and was ready to say that I wanted to go home.
I was a day away from asking the MP to send me home and he sat me down and said Elder X I want you to be my AP. I almost fell over.
Did my friend have something to do with it? He said he had mentioned my success to the new MP and said they talked quite a bit about me.
And I did finish my mission, again successful in a good but tough area, and that training has helped me in my career and my life.
Was it the best 2 years?
You tend to remember the good stuff and forget the bad but there was a LOT of bad that I remember vividly. Especially sitting in on excommunication trials for friends I had known being sent home for dating, or being gay or apostacy.
At least MP2 kept me on my mission. He gave me that last little push to finish it with honor.
Would I do it all again? I can't answer that question but I really don't think so. If I had known you had to kiss the MP's butt to get ahead or be a top "performer," I'd have stayed home and finished college and put up with my parents.

We were told success on our mission depended on working hard and perfectly living all the rules. That wasn't true. We had high baptizing rule breakers who goofed off a lot, and hard working rule followers who never baptized. Success was more about charisma and good looks. It was just one of the things that showed me my leaders were full of crap.