When it comes to racism, the current throne warmer saying, "We condemn racism in all its forms, past, present and future" is a bald faced lie, as long as they continue to institutionalize racism, by publishing and distributing racist, white supremacist scriptures around the world every day, and refuse to repent as an institution by apologizing for their past racial discrimination.
The only way out I can see is to own up to the fact that they are a racist institution and to take the necessary steps to correct the problem, by redacting the racist, white supremacist verses from their scriptures.
Until then, MORmONs, like Mitt Romney should just STFU about how racist the rest of society is.

The issue is even bigger. Not just Mormons, but much of religion has done the same "painting themselves into a corner" with gays, women, other "less chosen or special people," etc.

The Bible and other holy books are full of stupid sh!t that should have been redacted as people realized how utterly harmful and wrong some of what they revere as scripture actually is. But no. They keep it on the back burner and hope people are fine with just viewing it as history. They don't apologize. They spin the context as needed. They show no remorse for the damage they did to so many.

At least periodically the Catholics actually might apologize for some things 100 years after the fact. That is too little too late but at least they throw a bone to the fact dogs once in a while.

I don't see Mormons willing to risk bringing into question the "inspiration" and "revelation" from prophets. Unfortunately, the excuse that, "Oh, he was speaking as a man of his time" or "God only gives what we need for our time" crap isn't going to cut it. What are they teaching now that will later be shown to be as objectionable tomorrow? A lot. The pattern is clear.

God was cursing as a man. He doesn't apologize.

OR

Nephi was speaking as a man and Lamanites weren't really cursed but since they were nudists they got cursed by the sun.

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
since they were nudists they got cursed by the sun.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I haven't been cursed by the sun....
But I'm part Scandinavian, so that might be a factor...

It could have been slower than a single generation.

God's time isn't ours ;)

Mormons paint themselves into corners all the time, and they always get out.

In 1949, George Albert Smith, in an official statement from the First Presidency, declared that the LDS church's position on race was not merely policy. He emphatically stated that it was doctrine and the will of god. In 1978, church leaders received a "revelation" and things were changed. Why would they need a revelation to change a policy? A few years ago, some anonymous writer (under the First Presidency's direction) wrote an essay, and (miraculously) it became a mere policy. They decided that the paint was dry, and they walked away from the corner.

In November of 2015, the church Handbook of Instructions declared that same-sex couples are automatically considered to be apostates, and that their children can only be baptized when they turn 18, and then only if they renounce their parents' relationship. In January of 2016, Russel M. Nelson declared that the policy came directly from God. In 2019, the policy was reversed. I guess it only took three years for the paint to dry that time.

"The Family: A Proclamation to the World" certainly seems to paint the LDS church n a corner with the doctrine that gender is eternal, but they'll eventually find a way to walk away from that corner.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2020 07:04PM by CrispingPin.

CrispingPin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> In November of 2015, the church Handbook of
> Instructions declared that same-sex couples are
> aromatically considered to be apostates,...

I try not to make an issue of typos and occasional spelling errors, but I couldn't resist this--hope you're not offended.

I do appreciate and acknowledge your serious points.

I like it when I’m unintentionally funny.

Sorry-I think I’m going to have to fix it.

BTW-I’m not offended at all. I’m a very poor proofreader, so I can use the help.

(And thanks for the positive response.)

>> "Mormons paint themselves into corners all the time, and they always get out."

They just change the definition and say it isn't a corner....it's a place of reflection on the tender mercies of god and the love he has for all his children....then, when they think the paint is dry, they walk away and say they were never in a corner.....even though we can all see the footprints they left behind.

schrodingerscat Wrote:
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> . . . The only way out I can see is to own up to the
> fact that they are a racist institution and to
> take the necessary steps to correct the problem, . . .
================================

The entire institution is founded on magical beliefs which spares it the task of being logically consistent or intellectually rigorous.
Facts, evidence, simply do not matter.

Therefore, simply condemning racism is sufficient, evidence to the contrary.

Mormons do not have to walk the talk.

True that.

There is a root belief shared by all TBM's: the church is true.

SCat's root belief is the opposite. But TBMs do not listen to SCat, much less Einstein, Sagan or NdGT...

When they address issues such as those SCat raises, it's only to explain them away.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is a root belief shared by all TBM's: the
> church is true.
>
> SCat's root belief is the opposite. But TBMs do
> not listen to SCat, much less Einstein, Sagan or
> NdGT...

I was Mormon and reason led me to the obvious logical conclusion, that it is an abusive CULT.
But I still have friends who are stuck in the CULT.
My best friend, prior to me leaving the cult, was an ER Dr I went to college with, who is still LDS. And knows about more damning information about the CULT than me. His biggest problem is with the BoA.
He just doesn't allow himself to go there. He stops short of concluding anything about Joseph Smith, other than, he was a prophet. Which excuses everything about him, the sex abuse. The lies, the fraud, the racism, the white supremacy, murder, adultery, forgery, everything.
He can do no harm. Basically Jesus.
Jesus Smith. The Cult of Jesus Smith of Doomsday Sychophants.
> When they address issues such as those SCat
> raises, it's only to explain them away.

They're experts at explaining away abuse, racism, fraud, lies.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2020 09:08PM by schrodingerscat.

"But I still have friends who are stuck in the CULT."

I'm impressed. Do you constantly express your opinions with them like you do here?

You used “logical conclusion” and “abusive cult” in the same sentence. It doesn’t matter how batsh*t crazy their beliefs are because logic as most people know it doesn’t apply. Church leaders declare what’s true and it’s your job to believe it. It’s a church of adults playing make believe. Now, Simon says to like minorities. They will fall into like like good little Mormons.

bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Church
> leaders declare what’s true and it’s your job
> to believe it.

Continuing revelation isn't something SCat dwells upon when thinking about Mormonism. It is all rape, pedophilia, racism, and white supremacy.

Even with a prophet of color I believe his rants would be the same.

His points are valid for the historical lies, half truths, and horrible historical abuses that Mormonism continues to perpetuate but in matters of nuance and degrees it is all the same to him.

Is that yellow paint or did the Q15 suddenly realize how many members woke up during the virus?

Re: swearing Re: ... painted themselves into a corner and can't get out

God was cursing as a man. He doesn't apologize.

OR

Nephi was speaking as a man and Lamanites weren't really cursed but since they were nudists they got cursed by the sun.

lol - good one ;)

Thinking through this can actually help me recover. It stimulates recognition of wrongs done to me in the name of religion and allows me to formulate a plan of correction

Yes, it's quite funny. They painted themselves into a corner with the brush of continuing revelation. It's kind of an unwritten rule that no so-called prophet can throw the previous ones under the bus. Can't change something unless you can come up with a way to spin it as "more complete" knowledge from the Lard and not a reversal of past policy or scripture.

It has occurred to me that "mormons have painted themselves into a corner and can't get out" is a useless metaphor. Just saying it doesn't make it true.

In this metaphor, los mormones are merrily painting away; there are no corners for them, no walls pinning them in. All they see are wide open spaces into which their ever-expanding church continues to roll forth.

SCat can throw all the "tennuous" existential foothold he's managed to latch onto at them, such as in his rants to online missionaries, and all it does is firm up mormons' opinions that exmos are nuttier than fruitcakes.

But since he's now left us, I guess I'm just wasting pixels... He's probably better off now, having yielded to his partner's derisive implication that he was wasting his time here. (Or maybe we owe her a thank you note?)