https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/mary-kay-letourneau-dies-at-58/281-3d2eddeb-20b4-4955-8ba5-d351ac4800b7

Mary Kay Letourneau, who received national infamy after being convicted of raping her student and then later marrying him, has died at age 58, her attorney confirmed to KING 5 news.

Letourneau died of stage 4 cancer, said her attorney David Gerke, who represented her on the case.

In 1996, Letourneau, a sixth-grade teacher at Shorewood Elementary in Burien, was caught having sexual relations with Vili Fualaau, who was her student. Fualaau was 12-years-old at the time.

Sad for anyone to die (so young); sadder yet that some ppl will think/say like 'she deserved it'.

I HATE that kind of "thinking", regardless of what she did bc she wasn't violent against anyone...

is it OK for me to be judgmental about judgmental people?
there's a quandary for ya!

Using one's authority to have sex with a child too young to make a fully-informed decision is, by modern legal standards, indistinguishable from an act of violence.

What that lady committed was Statutory Rape, clear and simple. Had it been a male teacher and a 12 year old girl, the teacher would have been in prison for LIFE, not a few yearslike she was.

Vili Fualaau was almost 13.

just a few months short, ha ha

I cannot equate violence with having sexual relations even in a lopsided age difference.

yes, it is serious, yes it holds the aspect of great psychological damage, but I can't lower the status of bodily injuries.

(I also object to different 'degrees' of murder.)

If you think "the aspect of great psychological damage" isn't a form of violence, you have been mind fucked.

Their compassion has been compromised, hopefully not for life.

This was a very strange case... with a sad ending. Vili Fualaau was at her side when she passed. I don't think what she did was right at all, but they did seem to love each other regardless.

Sad that she died so young, especially for her children.

knotheadusc Wrote:
------------------------------------------------- I
> don't think what she did was right at all, but...


But? Really?

He's not a child anymore. He chose to marry her when he was an adult. He had the right to make that choice for himself.

I think his feelings about what she did matter the most.

knotheadusc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think his feelings about what she did matter the
> most.

Soooo, the same can be said for Helen Mar Kimball and Nancy Mariah Winchester if they were cool with being Joe's wives?

Sigh...

She was a human being. They apparently loved each other very much, especially given that Letourneau went to prison for seven years and they still married and were together for years.

I certainly don't condone what she did, but they must have had some kind of extraordinary connection with each other. I don't understand it, but they were both consenting adults when they got married. She did her time, and to my knowledge, never victimized anyone else.

As a human being, I am sorry that there are people who are sad that she died. Most people aren't all horrible. Vili was the one she victimized and he obviously forgave her. That's what's important, in my opinion. Besides, it's not like she'll ever hurt anyone again.

knotheadusc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I certainly don't condone what she did, but


The "but" is what gets you in trouble. It negates all you wrote before it.

Whatever you say, Beth.

Believe whatever you want about me even though you have no idea.

I'm out.

Were you sexually abused as a child?

My abuser thought he was "dating" me when I was twelve. A friend tracked him down and shared what she found. One thing was a link to where someone had captured screens of a pedophile man boy forum and my abuser had said he was merely dating boys.

It is very confusing the feelings towards my abuser. If you don't know what that is like, softening this because later the abused kid as an adult chose their abuser is just plain insensitive. It is like saying Stockholm Syndrome is ok if it eventually leads to "love."

It never will be love.

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Were you sexually abused as a child?
>
> My abuser thought he was "dating" me when I was
> twelve. A friend tracked him down and shared what
> she found. One thing was a link to where someone
> had captured screens of a pedophile man boy forum
> and my abuser had said he was merely dating boys.
>
> It is very confusing the feelings towards my
> abuser. If you don't know what that is like,
> softening this because later the abused kid as an
> adult chose their abuser is just plain
> insensitive. It is like saying Stockholm Syndrome
> is ok if it eventually leads to "love."
>
> It never will be love.


As a matter of fact, I was. And it’s not something I care to write about on this forum. My husband was also raped by his ex wife, which is also not something I care to discuss here.

The couple divorced in 2017. Sounds like they remained friends.

Can we just be sad that she's died?

really folks,


I think 99% of being judgmental is just a minor step away from LDS style worm poo

Sad? Why?

Indeed.

And?

I have no compassion for rapists. They're subhuman.

but if they had to be executed, I'd execute them humanely for my sake, not theirs. That way, it's justice and not revenge.

I'm against capital punishment because I do not think that the state should have the right to kill its citizens.

Did the state give her colon cancer?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2020 02:51AM by Beth.

Nobody gave her a 6-shot pepperbox pistol, but it probably wouldn’t have helped anyway.

Beth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm against capital punishment because I do not
> think that the state should have the right to kill
> its citizens.

Me too!

Y'all rape apologists are freaking me out. If she were a man and the victim were a child, male or female...

I don't know...

Wow.

I'm not apologizing for ANYTHING anyone else did.

Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: July 08, 2020 12:46AM
Re: (o/t) Mary Kay Letourneau, 58, Dies Of Cancer

Vili Fualaau was almost 13.


Options: Reply•Quote•Follow Topic•Report

Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: July 08, 2020 01:08AM
Re: (o/t) Mary Kay Letourneau, 58, Dies Of Cancer

***just a few months short, ha ha***

Emphasis added.

So, you're cool with Joseph Smith marrying 14-year-old girls, I take it?

Logical consistency. Try it.

Beth:

you get Plenty of exercise Jumping to conclusions.

Jump my ass. You're pretty clear.

It's a parody of Joe Smith.

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not apologizing for ANYTHING anyone else did.

But you are. You are explaining, rationalizing, her actions just as Mormon apologists explain and rationalize Mormon lies and abuse. That is the definition of an "apologist."

since U didn't notice, I was satirizing the 'few months short of 15 years' explanation gifted to pedophile Joe;


any questions?

How did that internship with The Onion go? Not well, it seems.

Good try, GNPE.

This is what you wrote:


--------------
"Can we just be sad that she's died?

really folks,

I think 99% of being judgmental is just a minor step away from LDS style worm poo"

---------------

You now claim that was satire? Yawn.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2020 02:47AM by Lot's Wife.

But was the student a victim?

That's difficult to answer.

I would say that the student is a victim no matter if he instigated the relationship or not because her relationship interfered with his normal sexual development.

It is one thing for teens to engage in sex acts with each other when their sexuality is developing but quite another for a young teen to have sex with a sexually experienced adult.

Was he physically a victim? No.
Was he mentally a victim? Yes.

Did they truly love each other? Does that even matter? Was his mental fixation on her a symptom of twisted development? Is it possible for a thirteen-year old to meet the love of his life when he doesn't even know what life is yet?

I'll repeat what I said aboe and then add some detail. According to the law, what that woman did to that boy was indistinguishable from physical, violent rape.

Why would the law put it that way? Because the act of rape has permanent psychological consequences. Victims of such abuse are permanently changed and, as in Stockholm syndrome or routine child abuse, often remain committed to their molesters or find someone similar to whom to bond.

You therefore cannot conclude that because the boy stayed loyal to her, he forgave her or loved her. Because of the harm he suffered, it is entirely possible he is incapable of either forgiveness or love.

I'm not sure why there is any debate on this topic. No one is hiding the ball here.

Legally there's no consent and it's no different than Joseph Smith or Warren Jeffs raping under age girls.

Notice I didn't say "marrying" as it is legally impossible.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2020 02:39AM by anybody.

I understand.

But I would add that the relationship between an abuser and the abused can never be a normal or healthy one. It's simply impossible.

This is what confuses me. You ask:

>But was the student a victim?

>That's difficult to answer.

Actually no. It's very easy to answer.

Mary Kay Letourneau raped Vili Fualaau. Full stop.

It's not of course and you are right.

In Latin, rapio, rapere means to seize or to take.

He had sex with her, but she took his normal sexual development from him and messed up his life.

A lot of the guys are only thinking like guys and don't see the full picture.

anybody Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A lot of the guys are only thinking like guys and
> don't see the full picture.


I take issue with that statement. It's unfair to men.

Men are victims of rape all the time. It's underreported. I've treated male victims of rape who did not report it.

If any human thinks that the rape of Vili Fualaau became a love story or is some Van Halen fantasy come true, that human needs to do some serious reflection.

So true. Or ask a man who was raped as a child. If they are honest you will see it has a tremendous emotional affect on their life.

A few posters here aren't at ease with others thinking - believing & expressing themselves UNLESS they're carbon copies of those who object.

like knothead, I'm OUT.

GNPE Wrote:
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> A few posters here aren't at ease with others
> thinking - believing & expressing themselves
> UNLESS they're carbon copies of those who object.

Well, at least you are no longer claiming that we misread you. I guess we can applaud that as a belated and tentative groping towards honesty.

But you are right. I am not at ease with your defense of a rapist.

You shouldn't be either.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You shouldn't be either.

No one should be.

Think of all the victims who don't go on to victimize. Think of all the people who have collectively taken sexual abuse at the hands of others and "let it go." It isn't something so easy to get over and neither is Mormonism, something often downplayed here by a cast of characters as well.

I won't mourn her.

As a teacher, I have strong feelings about those (mercifully few) of my colleagues who abuse their positions of trust. There is no more excuse for it than for priests, coaches, doctors, social workers, etc. abusing their positions. It is the epitome of selfishness. It reflects poorly on our entire profession.

Locally we had a case a number of years ago. A high school teacher fell in love with one of his students. In his favor, he waited until she graduated to pursue her, and they did marry. It caused a lot of tongues to wag around here, but at least he did it within the bounds of the law, and the minimum of common decency.

That's what was lacking in Mary Kay Letourneau's case -- common decency. She had no thought or care for her young student. She is the scourge of teachers everywhere.

I will not celebrate her death, nor will I mourn her.
What I absolutely will not do is try to excuse or minimize her actions. Plain and simple, she was a child sex abuser. Nothing changes that.

Unfortunately, there is a certain part of the population that has a perverse double standard. If an adult male rapes a 12 year old female everyone is outraged. If a Mormon scoutmaster or a Catholic priest rapes a 12 year old boy everyone is outraged. But if an adult female rapes a 12 year old boy, some see that as not a big deal - some even see it as a positive - "Hey, he got laid. Good for him!"
The reality is that all of the victims live with the consequences forever. I cannot feel any sympathy for the perpetrators.

If U care to read (re-read?) my first post, I wrote:

- sorry for her young death (due to cancerO

- we shouldn't judge others.

It would be foolish & pointless for one person to apologize for the choices or actions of another, I would never do that.

Being judgemental is the bread & butter meal for mormons, especially "leaders" who use their authority to judge (Bp is a 'common judge in Isreal') to intimidate & manipulate the membership, it starts with interviewing the youth 'worthiness' and continues thru periodic Temple Recommend interviews.

I'm not on that train, I don't even want to go to the depot.

LW, Beth: Do you have Any legal education to make the statements you've made here?

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LW, Beth: Do you have Any legal education to make
> the statements you've made here?

LOL! This train again has left the station.

What about me? And I don't so you can feel superior to me.

As a fellow teacher, I will most certainly judge her actions and find her wanting. Teachers have enough difficulty with gaining the public's respect. We don't need scum like her messing things up.

As for her early death, I honestly don't care. Why would I? She was not a good person. As I said, I won't mourn her. To me, it's a rare case of karma coming back to bite. **shrug**

I feel empathy for her victims along with empathy I feel for others here who are victims of Mormonism. The mind gets twisted by abusers and their victim's feelings are real just misdirected by their abusers towards their abuser.

My parents didn't physically harm me but did a number on my brain. Mormonism as well. True compassion and loving kindness is rarer than it should be.

I mourn it's absence in human lives even Mary Kay Letourneau.

Well said, thank you.

> LW, Beth: Do you have Any legal education to make
> the statements you've made here?

I have no qualifications--at least none I will share with you--other than whatever merit my arguments may have. If you read the thread I think you will see that many others understand and share my views. I would especially recommend what EB says, since this isn't really about law. What is astounding is your inability to comprehend when you are embarrassing yourself.

As for Beth, if you had been paying attention to this board these many years you would know that yes, she does have a law degree and years of practice. Where did she obtain her law degree? Stanford Law School.

Now tell us again why should we take you seriously as an expert on the law? Something about a course or two in the middle 1960s if I recall correctly?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2020 02:30PM by Lot's Wife.

I don't remember that stuff, and you (the universal you), don't need alphabet soup behind your name to realize that Vili Fualaau was raped and rape. is. a. crime.

My only opinion that might have something to do with the law but isn't based on education is that a person who is trying to justify the rape of Vili Fualaau might need representation at some point in the future, because man. SMDH

This is a simple precept:

Don't rape people!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2020 02:38PM by Beth.

first husband were victims of her actions. We'll never know the damage she has done.