Ok, I recognize the potential oxymoron here.

My TBM (smart, kind, compassionate, nut-case) wife suggested that we go to one of the national parks that is still open next Sunday and take a walk in the morning.

Seriously, I thought I would cry.

She has been studying mormon propaganda every Sunday. She wanted to attend the ward last Sunday. She loves the church. But, I think it is all social and cultural for her.

The notion that she is so bored that she would do something pleasant on a Sunday is a very small glimmer of hope for me. She is an awesome person who was sucked into the lies of mormonism by accident of birth. If kept from it long enough, maybe her natural goodness will win through!

Wish us luck!

I rejoice with and for you!!

And yes, your thread's title is definitely jarring, a real neck twister of a double-take!

Is there such a commodity as a "normal TBM"? Is so, what would be the six criteria that allowed such a designation? (Of course, I just picked that number at random...)

Maybe she'll find truth in nature...

Lowpriest Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, I recognize the potential oxymoron here.

I don't think it is. Normal devout believers do all sorts of things many people don't consider normal. Superstitious people do what I think is crazy things.

It isn't a matter of normalcy but what's in your koolaid.

+Lowpriest:
Why is she still a mormon? Has she seen all the information available about Joseph Smith, the Book of Abraham, the Kinderhook plates, the CES letter?
I don't understand why someone would be a mormon after all such information is available.

There is https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/
and many other resources online.

~~~~iceman9090

After you've observed the process, all a good Exmo can do is throw his/her hands in the air and go "Arrrgggghhhh!"

I acknowledged to myself, in 1965 when I went to the temple for the first time, that there was no way a Superior Being could have had anything to do with the huggermuggery I'd just been a part of. And yet, two of the nicest, kindest, well-meaning people I'd ever met, my bishop and his wife, and who'd gone through with me, we so happy for me, because they KNEW that they'd just, in a sense, communed with ghawd and the heavens. He was my second bishop, from ages 14 to 19.

My first bishop was such a great man that he went on to become an Area Representative and then President of the Las Vegas Temple. We lived next door to him for about four years and "...I know beyond a shadow of a doubt..." just how good and kind and noble he and his wife were.

And they believed.

My TBM BYU bride never stopped believing. But four of my five kids had no trouble agreeing with me that the church is just a man-made organization.

But the 5th kid, my firstborn, she is in it to win it! She gives every appearance that she truly believes. We've only had one serious discussion about religion and it was not specific to the problems I found in Mormonism; she was just wondering how anyone could be an atheist.

I think that she is of a mindset that lets her float above the facts. To her, while what critics say may be factual, they are just the 'truth' of the matter. There is an excuse for every bit of unholiness we critics can dredge up about the church, its history, its leaders, its flip-flops, its outright stupidity, lechery, financial cupidity/stupidity...

There is nothing a TBM won't excuse, "Because the church is True!'

When they start from that position, whatever facts you produce, if there isn't an acceptable explanation, so what? They KNOW that there HAS to be an explanation, because the church is true!

Meaning that TBMs don't have to have explanations, because they have faith. And they will be rewarded for their faith, just you wait and see.

They feel sorry for us, when they're humble. Most of the time they are too busy being haughty to be humble, and I'm sure many of them envy the Catholics, who can make the sign of the cross as they back away from naughty, misguided people.

That's how I see it, anyway...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2020 08:43PM by elderolddog.

+elderolddog:
"When they start from that position, whatever facts you produce, if there isn't an acceptable explanation, so what? They KNOW that there HAS to be an explanation, because the church is true!"

==I have encountered that multiple times while discussing religion with christians.
I call it the "I don't know how you (atheist) are wrong but you are still somehow wrong." point of the argument.
During the discussion, I make it clear to them that I want a reasonable reason, I want a rational explanation.

Similarly, if Jesus is the son of god, then why did he die? The typical answer is that he had to die for our sins. That's not a reasonable reason.

1. It doesn't stop me from sinning.
2. Or does it mean I have a license to sin as much as I want?
3. Also, they are telling us that he resurrected. Doesn't that invalidate the dying for my sin stuff?
What are we left with? We are left with Jesus getting tortured. The word excruciating come from the word crucify or out of the cross.
How does the torture of Jesus solve anything?
4. Was there no other option? Couldn't the god of this universe come up with something else?

They'll never be able to come up with a reasonable reason, however, there is an obvious explanation. Plenty of people in the past have offended the authority figures. They have been thrown in jail or tortured or killed somehow. If Jesus is real, then it is reasonable to think that such a situation arose because he was a big mouth, because he spoke his mind, because he tried to invent his own religion.

Source:
http://patriciamwilloughby.com/excruciating-means-cross/
"Or have you pondered on the suffering that Jesus Christ went through for your sins?"

~~~~iceman9090