My daughter is getting married in July in the <unnamed> temple. She called last night, and can't understand why she cries every day, and has huge doubts about getting married. She has been on a mission, so has already been through the temple. She loves her fiancé, but thinks she will be giving up so much freedom...like her husband-to-be doesn't approve of some of her friends or activities she wants to do. She is a commandment living Mormon, but is socially liberal and accepting, and loves having fun with all types of folks. I think she sees what I have been through in the last year (divorcing, leaving the church over gay issues (I came out last fall), and is questioning her commitment to the gospel. Invitations have already been sent. Down payments made. Etc. Ikes!!!! I want her to be happy. I can't make this decision for her!

You need to say:

"Sounds like you're not ready, Honey. We can postpone all you want."

Don't let the money foregone influence you.

Just sayin'...

Ron

+1 to the 100th power-

Jesus, I wish I'd listened to my inner voice or someone told me it wasn't the wisest move before my first wedding. Speak up!

"Invitations have already been sent. Down payments made. Etc. Ikes!!!!"

The hassle and financial costs involved in canceling a wedding PALE in comparison to the hassle, emotional pain, and financial costs of a future divorce. I certainly didn't cry all the time (or ever) during the time leading up to my marriage, and neither did any of my friends or relatives who are married. This is a HUGE red flag your daughter needs to heed. Crying daily and having many doubts are NOT normal pre-wedding jitters.

Her fiance also sounds potentially abusive...I mean, if your daughter is "a commandment living Mormon," what kinds of behavior could she possibly be indulging in that a reasonable person would object to? She obviously isn't cheating on him, using drugs, etc. Almost anyone who's been married can tell your daughter that a fiance's troubling habits and negative traits do not fade away after the marriage...if anything, they tend to become worse.

Please, for your daughter's sake, tell her that although the last thing you want to do is interfere in her life decisions, you simply cannot stay silent when you see these warning signs. Perhaps encourage her and her fiance to go for pre-marriage counseling (preferably non-LDS) as well. Tell her you will be supportive of her no matter what she decides in the end but that you want her to think very, very carefully before entering into a commitment that could negatively impact the rest of her life and those of any children she may have.

Another HUGE red flag:

"...but thinks she will be giving up so much freedom...like her husband-to-be doesn't approve of some of her friends or activities she wants to do."

If he's being so controlling at this point, it pales with what he'll try to do in the future. If she values freedom, she'll not have it in this marraige...

I know that makes him sound controlling. He's really quite a nice guy, and my daughter is NOT one to be pushed or ordered about. But any marriage requires compromise and accountability. For instance, I occasionally would go to the store on Sunday, and I would get a raised eyebrow from DH. He wasn't controlling me, but I would consciously choose activities that minimized judgment and disapproval.

another guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another HUGE red flag:
>
> "...but thinks she will be giving up so much
> freedom...like her husband-to-be doesn't approve
> of some of her friends or activities she wants to
> do."
>
> If he's being so controlling at this point, it
> pales with what he'll try to do in the future. If
> she values freedom, she'll not have it in this
> marraige...


I agree. Frankly her comment that he doesn't "approve" scares me. Approve? What is she, 12? If he already thinks he's her ruler and master, then that will cause huge problems down the road.

I've seen Mormon men like that. I have no respect for them whatsoever, and heartily dislike them.

I have friends who've canceled a wedding within days. They did it for a reason, and I admire their courage.

Your daughter should, at the very least, wait until she's sure. This is not a decision that one should feel unsure of. It's one of the biggest decisions she'll ever make in her life, and she needs to feel good about it.

Many people get before-wedding jitters, but if it's a real question of, "Am I doing the right thing?" then she needs to put the brakes on for a bit.

You can't make those types of decisions based on one line of text, though. There's semantics involved here... saying he doesn't "approve" doesn't mean he berates her about it. There are things about me that I know my fiance doesn't "approve" of, but that doesn't keep us from having a very loving and extremely fulfilling relationship. Just because it's not his way doesn't mean he's not going to accept it.

But that's not the important thing - if she is crying daily and has such strong doubts, perhaps she should, at the very least, put it off for awhile.

When she said she wanted to see a therapist for all these emotions she was having, he said she should read her scriptures to get spiritually healthy first. I think that is a typical Misguided TBM response.

AMEN!

Mos often want to 'One Up' each other on 'Righteousness'.

Mormonism FAILS because people mis-use it .... and ChurchCo NEVER calls them on it or repudiates this Crapola.

Not to mention about how whacked JS/BY and their successors were!

If Ever there was a case for a live-in relationship FIRST, THIS IS IT!

the thought of a 'trial run' may wrankle some, but.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2011 12:31PM by guynoirprivateeye.

I think mst people who are in the process of getting married have some second thoughts,,jitters. However with all her red flags this is bad signs. She should step back and consider what she wants and expects from the relationship. What is he changing and giving up? Does he have friends and activities she don't approve of? Like was stated,,she can postpone it,,better now than later.

As a pre-mormon and then as a mormon, when I have had doubts about something because (loosing freedeom in this case), and have decided to go ahead with it because I am afraid of changing my mind, I have regretted it later.

"She is a commandment living Mormon" "and is questioning her commitment to the gospel"

It seems to me that even though she loves him she is not ready for marriage at this time, or maybe she does not love him enough to marry him. Maybe deep inside of her are other dreams to fulfill before marriage. Maybe the commandment keeping in her wants the wedding but she is doubting her beliefs and wants to follow her own path.

I like ExmormonRon's advise:

You need to say:

"Sounds like you're not ready, Honey. We can postpone all you want."

Don't let the money foregone influence you.

D

>
> It seems to me that even though she loves him she
> is not ready for marriage at this time, or maybe
> she does not love him enough to marry him. Maybe
> deep inside of her are other dreams to fulfill
> before marriage. Maybe the commandment keeping in
> her wants the wedding but she is doubting her
> beliefs and wants to follow her own path.

I KNOW she wants to go to grad school in a hip big city to continue her <anonymous> artistic studies. He has agreed to do that with her for a few years. She does not want to settle in <anonymous> ultra Mormon community where she currently works, And he does.
>
> I like ExmormonRon's advise:
>
> You need to say:
>
> "Sounds like you're not ready, Honey. We can
> postpone all you want."
>
> Don't let the money foregone influence you.
>
> D

Deal with the pain of cancelling the wedding now, rather than suffer long term in a marriage you didn't really want.

I also think she should postpone the wedding, as she's clearly not ready since crying every day is not normal jitters at all. If postponing means that he leaves her, then she's better off without him as suffering in a bad marriage or going through a divorce is far worse than an engagement that gets broken.

Crying everyday is NOT normal. I agree. There's no way she should marry him.

She feels like she's questioning the gospel because "the gospel" is telling her she's supposed to marry someone who she obviously doesn't really want to marry. She's crying every day because the cognitive dissonance is tearing her apart.

I don't know what to tell you. Aside from Ron's advice of giving her a back door out of this situation, I got nuthin'. I'm just furious every time I read a story like this. I hate what the cult does to people.

She needs to get out now. I cried for two entire days before I got married, and I think its because deep down I knew that we weren't right for each other. After six years and a few separations later, we were finally divorced. It was a lot to go through and I wish I had just ended it before the temple, damn all the money we already spent on wedding stuff. It wasn't like a normal-people wedding, so it wasn't thousands of dollars, just hundreds.

My sister did the same thing. Married a guy who ordered her around, and she is stubborn, so I knew she wouldn't take it for very long. Sure enough their true colors came out and heir marriage ended after only a year, and she later admitted to me that the temple was creepy. Her ex later admitted that he knew it was wrong to marry her but did it anyway. Your daughter KNOWS that she doesn't want to get married. She just needs to save herself years of pain and call it off. She might need someone to talk her through it.

Almost the exact same thing happened to me 16 years ago! I had been home from my mission for not even 6 months when this perfectly righteous priesthood holder (on paper) proposed to me. I said yes, believing that my mission president was right about spouses being like mission companions - you could do the lord's work with any other willing missionary.

So, one week before the big day - seriously 7 days - we called it off - postponed it. I had done nothing but cry for the previous 3 months, but I couldn't put my finger on exactly what was bothering me. I didn't want to register for wedding gifts, choose china, go apartment hunting, etc., because it felt weird to me.

My mother said something to me that really made an impact - she said "I'm worried that you're ignoring these huge yellow lights. They are flashing, and you are just running through them like they'll never turn red". She was right of course. All that crying and weirdness were signs for me that things weren't right.

The postponement went on indefinitely. Well, actually only a few weeks before being completely cancelled. I had met the man I would later marry, and ended up giving back the ring. I was worried I would never get another chance to marry, so postponing it sounded reasonable - baby steps. Then I met a wonderful guy who wasn't very good on paper, but is way more than a mission companion to me! It was seriously one of those instances where you "just know" that it's right - something I never felt with bachelor #1.

Your daughter needs to be assured that she doesn't have to get married just because money has been spent - give her the postponement option. The invitations going out and all that? Not a good enough reason to go through with the nuptials if she has doubts.

Any doubts? Just say no! Who cares about the expectations of others. Dad, just pay for the wasted purchases and set your daughter free.

and I was right. I could have spared myself eight years of pain and turmoil if I had heeded my inner warning.

But-I-might-not-have-met-my-current-lovely-wife-ly yrs,

S

schweizerkind Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and I was right. I could have spared myself eight
> years of pain and turmoil if I had heeded my inner
> warning.
>
> But-I-might-not-have-met-my-current-lovely-wife-ly
> yrs,
>
> S


I've had friends like that as well. One made the same mistake, twice. They figured it was too late to back out and it all ended up in divorce anyway.

This happened to my sister! She was in tears and everybody - even our parents - kept telling her that it was just "normal cold feet". Her single best friend railed on her and said she was being ungrateful. She ended up breaking it off anyway (after a wedding shower, so there were presents to return) and THANK GOD. We found out later that his plans were for her to be pregnant and quit school within 3 months of the wedding.

Her feelings need to be RECOGNIZED and VALIDATED. Tell her that none of the preparations or money matter, nor does anyone else's opinions. Tell her you will support absolutely whatever she decides 100%. She needs to realize that she is allowed to make this decision for herself!

I was a best man at a wedding where people had actually travelled from out of country. I asked the groom if he really wanted to go through with it ?. He said not really but he felt guilty actually arranging it.

I told him that I would be happy to go out in front of the congregation and say "Thank you all for coming - we have great food and a wonderful night's entertainment -however there is not going to be a wedding "

He nearly died of shock -- but went through with it anyway

JB

These should be huge RED FLAGS!!!! Crying like that isn't a good sign. It sounds like your daughter doesn't want to get married but the church has been telling her for years that is what good little mo girls do. Someone said how they hate what this cult does and I agree. I have seen so many women turned into pill popping housewives to deal with all the shit poured down on them. She should break it off now, since it will cost 100 times more if does get married and ends up getting divorced in a few years.

it could take decades to untangle her life and recover.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2011 06:05PM by wine country girl.

She wanted to see a therapist, and he told her to "read Scriptures" first?

Good grief, if she were bleeding from an artery, would he give her a Book of Mormon before taking her to the ER?

RUNRUNRUNRUNRUNRUN!

~VOW

This is yet more evidence that he will be a super controlling spouse:

"I KNOW she wants to go to grad school in a hip big city to continue her <anonymous> artistic studies. He has agreed to do that with her for a few years."

--She wants to further her studies, as she should, but he has "agreed" to do it "for a few years". That sounds like he has given his permission (total control) and will revoke it when he has had enough and wants her to be the good little wife. Whatever education and artistic accomplishments she has achieved will be thrown out the window.

"She does not want to settle in <anonymous> ultra Mormon community where she currently works, And he does."

--He will insist that they move back from that hip city to an ultra Mormon community where she will become the good little wife. She will be miserable.

She needs to get out now.

I had similar misgivings when I was engaged. I didn't cry but I did have HUGE doubts and just didn't know if I was really doing the "right thing." Deep down I felt like it wasn't right or I wasn't ready. Like your daughter, I was a commandment keeping TBM who had already been on a mission and graduated from college. I was scared of becoming an "old maid" (I was almost 25, gasp) and so when I fell in love with my now ex husband and he proposed I thought that was my answer to the feeling of what do I do now that I'd been having since I graduated from college. It seemed like the next logical step for me and it was what I'd always been taught was my most important goal in life, to get married. So I ignored my doubts and I got married.

Flash forward 10 years. We have 2 kids, he came out of the closet and we are divorced. The last 2.5 years of my life having been extremely painful and it's been hard on my kids too. I Wish I had trusted my gut and not done what TSCC preaches, which is find the first worthy RM, temple recommend holding priesthood holder and get married. I wish I had had the courage to say no.

I think the fact that your daughter confided this in you shows she is really looking for guidance. I wish I had told someone how I was feeling before I got married. I didn't. I kept it in and I just figured I was getting cold feet. You may be able to save your daughter--and any potential children that she could result from their marriage--from the much greater heartache in suffer in the future from a divorce. Don't be afraid to tell her what you think. But be sure to do it in a loving way, that shows her all you want is her happiness, that you have no agenda and will support her in whatever decision she makes. Let her know it's okay to back out. I wish someone had done the same for me.

Let me try and put this in context. What exactly is a "stupor of thought" and how would you know it if you had one? What would be the reaction if you tried and force an idea anyway, despite the answer already received from a loving Heavenly Father that things are not right? What more can the Holy Ghost do to tell you something without subverting your agency?

Feelings are warped by the morg for their advantage, they might be useful to set one free as well.