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Posted by: Lulu not logged in ( )
Date: July 20, 2020 11:47AM

In DesNews article about temples moving to Phase 2, there is a buried paragraph saying there have been additional changes made to the eternal and unchanging Endowment.

Slip it in while the temples are mostly closed.

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Posted by: LaraCroft ( )
Date: July 20, 2020 01:40PM

Yes, I would be interested to know what the changes are! Hope someone will post.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: July 20, 2020 02:27PM

Will temple patrons now have to sign a covid release form ?

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Posted by: Toronto Boy ( )
Date: July 20, 2020 02:50PM

My guess is this. Symbolic touching no real touching no touching in prayer circle. Going through veil will be symbolic with no touching. Does not take a brain scientist to realize the top brass is in trouble with temple stuff. So In 1967 when I went through most of stuff has been changed or deleted. Guess it was not important. So these new changes are probably not important just your 10% is important. Plus this changes gives members the impression that God is running the church and Dusty is getting revelations.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: July 20, 2020 03:06PM

brain surgeon

just sayin'


nuclear physicist, etc. will also suffice

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Posted by: reinventinggrace ( )
Date: July 20, 2020 03:44PM

I think you're on it, Toronto Boy.

Maybe this will be the end of the Handshakes!

It's a great opportunity to purge the creepier elements of the endowment.
- no more semi-nakedness at anointing
- maybe no more "go in a closet to learn your secret name"
- everyone just folds their arms in the True Order of Prayer.
- practice social distancing at the veil -- no more learning about the brand of breath mints that god likes.
- maybe no more handshakes!!!!!! (just raise the right arm to the square and everybody gets vetted all at once).

RG

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Posted by: Finance Clerk ( )
Date: July 20, 2020 03:52PM

That totally makes sense...no touching. Now all the things that were critical to enter heaven are no longer critical.

I'm still confused if the oath I took about having my throat slit and guts spilt for revealing temple junk still apply to me or not.

Now I have to wonder if handshakes still apply to me or not, and the younger folks can get away with a foot bump, or wave, or something. Because surely they won't make any such announcement...just "make the changes quietly".

Now if they'd just get rid of the crazy garments, I could almost tolerate the temple experience and the craziness it brings.

D

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Posted by: Dorothy ( )
Date: July 23, 2020 11:25AM

I'm picturing dressed up patrons doing a "Wave or foot bump" hahahahaha! I needed a laugh this morning.

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Posted by: lurking in ( )
Date: July 20, 2020 05:15PM

Something like this?

"LORD: 'What is that?'

"PETER: 'The first token of the Aaronic priesthood.'

"LORD: 'Has it a name?'

"PETER: 'It has.'

"LORD: 'Will you give it to me?'

"PETER: 'I will, through the COVID mask.'"

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Posted by: Lulu not logged in ( )
Date: July 20, 2020 06:37PM

You're a rocket surgeon ;)

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Posted by: alsd ( )
Date: July 21, 2020 05:33AM

Lulu not logged in Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're a rocket surgeon ;)


"Damnit Smithers, this isn't rocket science, it's brain surgery"
- C. Montgomery Burns

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Posted by: JoeSmith666 ( )
Date: July 20, 2020 03:51PM

The ceremony that "is the same as it was with Adam to Joseph Smith" - WHY any changes if it came directly from God and such?

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Posted by: MysticMa ( )
Date: July 20, 2020 06:20PM

Interesting. As a young, naive LDS bride, I was led to believe there had only ever been one endowment ceremony. I needed to remember and hold dear all the craziness. Within a few short years the ceremony was changed. Then changed again. After the first change, I pretty much didn't believe any of their gospel. However had kids so I stayed much longer than I should have.

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Posted by: Shinehah ( )
Date: July 20, 2020 09:28PM

I suppose it is only a coincidence that so many "revelations" occur at a time of societal changes and pressure. Polygamy ban, priesthood for all worthy males and now revisions to all the creepy touching at a time of very real concern about a virus.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: July 20, 2020 10:33PM

Yet many TBMs claim that ChurchCo has been PROACTIVE in making changes...

yup, they really believe that, D'oh!!!

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Posted by: Anziano Young ( )
Date: July 21, 2020 10:26AM

It was God "softening hearts" that "prepared the way," don'cha know?

-US legislature tells Utah to cut it out with the polygamy or they'll never gain statehood: just God's way of preparing the rest of the US to play an eternal second fiddle to his chosen paradise; he had to take back polygamy, otherwise Utah would have been TOO AWESOME for the rest of America to live with
-Centuries of slavery and decades of racial oppression finally result in civil rights legislation passing the US congress: God just had to make sure the rest of the country was good and ready before he could tell his prophet to let African Americans into temples
-The rest of the world collectively decides that inappropriate touching is inappropriate: God had to make sure they were prepared before he told his church to stop doing that in initiatory, otherwise they would have thought temple workers were just too weird for not wanting to touch teens on their loins

See, it's really about making all the unbelievers comfortable with a change before God will institute that change in his own church. Really! See? SEE?

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Posted by: Recovered Molly Mo ( )
Date: July 21, 2020 12:00PM

If you investigate EVERY change made thru CHURCHINC history, you will see every single one of them has been REACTIVE, not proactive. Research what was going on internally and externally with the church at the time of change.

Example-Remember when Priesthood holders could not be of African/Black descent as it was considered the "Mark of Cain".

When temples were being built in South America it was necessary to "Build of the Kingdom" and have Priesthood to be present. There were not enough PH holders...why? Because they were not qualified due to their heritage.

Lo and Behold, thus speaketh the Lord....that was repealed.

PH holders could be found, bestowed, endowed....all necessary for what folks? PH holders and Temple Recommended required?....

Tithe payers. If this new relevation was not implemented the church would have lost money.

RMM

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Posted by: notmonotloggein ( )
Date: July 22, 2020 10:17AM

Which were put there AFTER the invention of the elevator. :-)

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Posted by: Canuck guy ( )
Date: July 20, 2020 10:15PM

If the changes are to eliminate all touching, I wonder if those changes are only temporary, to be reversed when the pandemic is over.

And since the procedure has been to demonstrate each token and then say that “we desire all to receive it”, will they just guve the token to the Witness couple who will receive as proxy for everyone else? Oh, the possibilities are endless :)

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: July 20, 2020 10:18PM

As a member the temple was the biggest disappointment. I hated going there and I thought there was something wrong with me.

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Posted by: heartbroken ( )
Date: July 21, 2020 12:05AM

I wonder if they'll ditch the Pillsbury doughboy hats?

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: July 21, 2020 04:55AM

Just bag the whole endowment. Nobody likes it. I would replace it with psychedelic substances, bright colors on the movie screen and trippy music.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: July 22, 2020 09:54PM

Rubicon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just bag the whole endowment. Nobody likes it.


The NEW WAVE saints can lobby for meditation!!

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Posted by: dydimus ( )
Date: July 21, 2020 05:09AM

If they're going to practice social distancing; No more washing/anointing. No more sacred handshakes, prayer circles, mouth to ear at veil. no more baptisms for the dead right?!?! unless you get into the font and dunk yourself. No more confirmations and giving of the Holy Ghost unless given by wands or Broomsticks. At church Will there also be no more circles for blessing naming the babies or confirming or giving of the priesthoods? No more laying on the hands. Will the apostles have to stop giving second anointing and washing the feet?

The whole thing is and was nothing more than "The Mormon Rocky Horror Picture Show" with audience participations and costume changes.

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Posted by: WashyourhandsinCroom ( )
Date: July 21, 2020 09:36AM

Or just add real, not symbolic, hand washing into several parts of endowment.

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Posted by: Eric K ( )
Date: July 21, 2020 10:04AM

Exactly dydimus. The whole endowment ceremony never made sense as it requires tons of touching. The prophets did not see this pandemic coming and possibly future scenarios where incidental human touch must be limited to avoid spreading diseases. The whole thing should becoming clear to the true believers as to why did the endowment require so much close contact if it was from god? Where was the vision?

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Posted by: Anziano Young ( )
Date: July 21, 2020 10:30AM

*BA-DUMP* How d'you do, I--

*BA-DUMP* See you've met my--

*BA-DUMP* Faithful...HANDYMAN

*Ooooooo* (Holy Ghost, dressed in a bed sheet, from Stage Right)

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Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: July 23, 2020 11:20AM

"Let's do the tiiii-thing, aga--in!"

Oh, to imagine the horror of Brad and Janet getting a flat tire and going to the temple.

I shiver with......antici.......(say it!!)....pation.

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Posted by: Heidi GWOTR ( )
Date: July 23, 2020 11:22AM

LOVE IT!! I can just see folks in the seats holding umbrellas and water guns.

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Posted by: celeste ( )
Date: July 21, 2020 11:59PM

Maybe they’ll stream sessions. Dead dunking on Facebook live. Washing and anointing in Tik Tok. Lol.

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Posted by: anonculus ( )
Date: July 22, 2020 08:39AM

Wonder what they did in 1918.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: July 22, 2020 08:28PM

No One alive to tell, that much is for sure...

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Posted by: Finance Clerk ( )
Date: July 22, 2020 09:56AM

They could actually consider doing the whole ceremony with "patrons" (hate that word) wearing gloves and masks. That way you can still do the handshakes, hands-on head blessings, dead-dunking without actually touching anyone. I imagine they have thought of that (errr...God might have told them). If I was a believer, I might suggest it. But it would just make the whole thing even stranger.

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Posted by: Lowpriest ( )
Date: July 22, 2020 08:18PM

Hey, I saw the movie Frozen. When the guy coronates Elsa, the magic doesn't work with gloves on hands....

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Posted by: toohotforrobes ( )
Date: July 23, 2020 03:41AM

Well, since tokens and signs etc. were borrowed from the freemasonry why not get the solution for current situation also from the original source:

https://www.masonicsupplyshop.com/masonic-gloves/

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Posted by: MormonMartinLuther ( )
Date: July 26, 2020 08:06PM

Great! Now members will have to touch themselves and do it in symbolism of the Savior touching them.

Why don't they just have temple dolls so the initiate can show where the temple staff should have touched them.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: July 26, 2020 09:29PM

MormonMartinLuther Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Why don't they just have
> temple dolls so the
> initiate can show where
> the temple staff should
> have touched them.


I know those dolls! I used them on dates; At the start of the date I would give one to my date and ask her to show me where she wanted me to touch her! It takes all the guesswork out...

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Posted by: Dorothy ( )
Date: July 27, 2020 10:23AM

I don't know HOW this is creepier than what actually happens, but it is!

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: July 26, 2020 09:21PM

Going to temple is now a minefield with no significant changes announced...

Covis is sucking the life out of religion especially Mormonism.

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Posted by: heartbroken ( )
Date: July 26, 2020 10:23PM

I think LDS Inc. was ready to make changes but was hesitant to because changes aren't really supposed to be made to the sacred temple ceremony/endowment.

Covid has given them an excuse to make the temple less weird. What else will change permanently because of the pandemic?

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Posted by: NormaRae ( )
Date: July 27, 2020 12:47PM

They will be informed, once again, that the endowment hasn't changed, only the "presentation" of the endowment has changed.

So what's the actual endowment--the ever eternal thing from God that can never change? Wasn't the washing and annointing, wasn't the long temple garments, wasn't the five points of fellowship, wasn't the Adamic language of prayer, wasn't the penalties, wasn't the hats and veils, wasn't the women submitting to their husbands, wasn't the lecture at the veil, wasn't really anything other than the handshakes and passwords. And if they don't need to do the handshakes anymore so that no one touches, why don't they shorten the presentation of the passwords down to 10 minutes and let everyone go home and quit wasting their time.

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Posted by: Ex-CultMember ( )
Date: July 30, 2020 04:06PM

NormaRae Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They will be informed, once again, that the
> endowment hasn't changed, only the "presentation"
> of the endowment has changed.
>
> So what's the actual endowment--the ever eternal
> thing from God that can never change? Wasn't the
> washing and annointing, wasn't the long temple
> garments, wasn't the five points of fellowship,
> wasn't the Adamic language of prayer, wasn't the
> penalties, wasn't the hats and veils, wasn't the
> women submitting to their husbands, wasn't the
> lecture at the veil, wasn't really anything other
> than the handshakes and passwords.

Exactly. They can keep getting away with changing the "presentation" of the endowment but not the "actual endowment" or the "original endowment" or the "essential parts" by not specifically identifying what parts these are.

I'd love to see them go through an actual transcript and highlight the parts that are "essential" and "original" vs just "presentation for our time."

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Posted by: MormonMartinLuther ( )
Date: July 27, 2020 09:30PM

As Hinckley had said parts or practices may come and go but the endowment will never change.

Of course, he knew the one thing they would never remove is claiming ownership over all the money members will ever make. That is the one thing that will remain the same. It is the same yesterday, today and forever. The eternally mormon part of the ceremony.

All your basis belongs to us - Ensign Peak Apostlers

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Posted by: smirkorama ( )
Date: July 28, 2020 03:29AM

yah!

........and Gordon BS Hinckley also said that his MORmON church had "nothing whatever to do with it (MORmON Polygamy)" AS IF Joseph SMith and Brigham Young are not considered still considered sealed to their many plural wives by the same LYING gas lighting POS excuse for a "church" and because that is just how full of $hit that Gordon BS Hinckley really was.

because the chief dictum regarding MORmON doctUrine is: that is ALWAYS the way that it is!!!! ......UNLESS it is not!!!!

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Posted by: PapaKen ( )
Date: July 27, 2020 09:43PM

So marriage equality is legal (at least for now).

So which side of the room do I and my husband sit on when we're getting gay sealed?

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Posted by: smirkorama ( )
Date: July 28, 2020 03:21AM

with the highly problematic administering of the sackerment which is the centerpiece of MORmON sunday worship services ??????

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: July 28, 2020 05:39AM

They could distill the endowment down to just making the covenanrs and get rid of the masonic handshakes and touching during the prayer circle and veil. There is a whole bunch of fluff tey can get rid of. I don't even see why wearing the green aprons is important. Seems to be the point of the whole thing is to make covenants and the big payoff is entrance into the celestial kingdom.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: July 28, 2020 06:08PM

The green "fig leaf" apron...

Because without it, you'd be nekkid!!!!

Naked before ghawd!

What are you, an animal?

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Posted by: Zelf the Apostate ( )
Date: July 30, 2020 03:27PM

As grandma said when she was ask about the pre 1990 ceremony changes:

"The Temple is the same now as it always was. If you remember it differently then Satan has confounded your memory."


I files this quote right next to one give when discussing cave paintings in National Geographic "The Church says there were no cavemen--the end." and hence forth and forevermore Nat Geo was banished as a wicked and sinful publication.

"The road to apostasy begins with people saying 'OUR CHURCH' instead of 'THE CHURCH' beware!"

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