No, I still have a dim view of it ...

you need a better rock

Nah. Honestly, this whole thing has just been so scary for me. I'm over 60, diabetic, have asthma, high blood pressure, sleep apnea, and obesity. I have a very high risk of dying from the thing.

I'm so busy concentrating on just trying to be safe, that I'm not really thinking of it in relation to religion or anything else.

I'm just trying to take care of myself and my family, meaning my 92-year-old Mom, my cat, and my dog.

I had already become very indifferent to religion, so this doesn't really change anything in regard to that.

You be safe - okay? Anything else is not acceptable and there will be hell to pay. Or not.

Seriously - be safe. I love you.

Yes, look after yourself and loved ones. It can be a very dangerous disease and nobody can predict how it will affect somebody.

Best wishes to you, Greyfort - and to Beth.

Tom in Paris



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2020 08:47AM by Soft Machine.

Hi, Greyfort. Hey! We are brothers, pretty much. Same health issues down to a T! Though Victosa injections helped me with my weight loss. That and walking for to five miles a day.

The Sunday before last, my wife and I went for a drive in the mountains (not in Utah, BTW). We stopped in a small town for lunch. We parked in a public lot and phoned a restaurant for takeout. While we were waiting for our food to be cooked, we walked around the town. We had masks on, and we avoided walking very close to anyone else. Even though we were outside the entire time, almost everyone we saw was wearing a mask. I don’t think I saw a single person entering or leaving a shop or restaurant that wasn’t wearing a mask. The exception was a church.

We had parked across from a church. When we were sitting in our car deciding on a restaurant and placing our order, I saw many people entering the church. Not a single worshiper was wearing a mask, nor was the man who was greeting everyone at the door.

This pandemic has reminded me of how some “religious” people really don’t care about others and/or refuse to accept reality.

I would prefer a church where nobody wears a mask. That’s a crowd with real faith.

If only they would keep their faith to themselves.

My opinion of mormonism has never been lower.

The so called inspired prophet and supposed surgeon could save hundreds of lives around the world by simply saying. "Thus sayeth the lord. Wear a mask in public. Keep a safe distance. Wash your hands."

Simple. Three sentences. Save lives.

Instead he remains silent and while here and there sends the above message through intermediaries, remains silent himself.

I think your observation is worthy of all-caps and exclamation points.

I am twisted enough to suspect that Russell Milhaus Nelson will not promote science-based instructions for fear that it would demean his status as being entitled to speak with ghawd. It would place emphasis that ghawd has been mute throughout this entire episode.

An either-or position could be postulated:

Rusty is no prophet

Or

mormon ghawd doesn't give a crap.

Exactly! Heartless and Elderolddog are right! Mormons don't speak to me (I'm being shunned), but I wonder why none of them have thought it strange that their prophet has remained silent. Yes, he speaks through intermediaries, and even then, all the Mormon church has said was that it is advisable to choose to wear a mask. That was said at the time when several Mormon wards reopened in Utah (when the Covid numbers were rising sharply.)

Heartless wrote:
<<<"My opinion of mormonism has never been lower.

The so called inspired prophet and supposed surgeon could save hundreds of lives around the world by simply saying. "Thus sayeth the lord. Wear a mask in public. Keep a safe distance. Wash your hands."

Simple. Three sentences. Save lives.

Instead he remains silent and while here and there sends the above message through intermediaries, remains silent himself.<<<"

Nelson, the great Mormon Prophet of God, could save more lives than he ever could have dreamed of saving in his medical career. Yes, you are correct that as an MD, he knows what other MD's know about medical science. To see an opportunity to save just one life, yet do nothing, is against the hipocratic oath, isn't it? Whatever it is, deliberately to do nothing is clearly an evil choice.

IMO, I think the Mormon cult leaders are being influenced politically. (Am I allowed to say that here?). Politically means financially, also, in this case.

I feel rather removed from religion at this point anyway, but the pandemic has seemed to intensify that. I can't imagine why anyone would feel the need to go running back to church at this time. You need food to eat. You don't need church, or at least you shouldn't need it that badly.

You're such a sweetheart, Beth. Love to you.

and/or claiming it doesn't exist

My only concern with religion is how far away from it am I able to go. My situation now is that I am financially forced to live with an active LDS daughter. She is not aware of my
anti-position. I will keep up the front because it is in my best interest to do so.
The pandemic has not changed my view at all!!

By the way I am 84. If it gets me it gets me. If it doesn't I'll just carry on to the end!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2020 10:57AM by thedesertrat1.

it was ALREADY pretty low ......however, it just dipped a bit lower, not because of Covid, but because I just listened to Bednar's talk "that we might not shrink" ......wow! what a creepy ass POS that guy is, so disgustingly capitalizing on tragedy to the benefit of LDS Inc ......

.......one good thing about it, Covid has got to be doing incredible damage to the MORmON religion....... sorry for the gallows humor, but ..........one good thing about it, Covid has got to be doing incredible damage to the MORmON religion!!!!!

this might be the biggest emotional ass beating for the MORmON church since June 27 1844, as well as a huge financial beat down

I never had one... and I can see everything, from my view.

For the last time. Jesus DOES NOT love everybody.

If you can look around the world and see what's happening and still spout that "Jesus Loves" crap then you need real help.

The best you can say is that Jesus really loves the 1%. Like, for sure. Jesus really loves Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, and Reverend Kanye West. He is crazy for them. Proof is in the pudding and in the bank. Jesus loves Americans more than most Africans, East Indians, and the Bangladeshi. Apparently he doesn't love women in Muslim Mideastern countries at all and doesn't even want them seen. And he lets Mormons run free to suck the life out of all nations, kindred, tongues, and people. What kind of love is that?

And yes. I already thought this. Nothing to do with Co-vid. Can't imagine why anyone would connect the two. Oh yeah . . . Religion!

Let's just hope nothing happens to Jesus favorite, Tim Tebow, or a lot of people will not lose their faith, but may turn on Jesus cuz Tim matters more and deep down they know Jesus is only their poster child to get donations.

> For the last time. Jesus DOES NOT love everybody.

We are told God is omnipotent and loving, but he can't logically be both. Either he loves every one of his children but lacks the power to protect them, or he is omnipotent but doesn't care about a large portion of his creation.

So if God/Jesus exists and is omnipotent, yes, there is no way he loves everybody.

Jesus may not love everyone, but ...

Jesus loves me, this I know

For the bible tells me so.



Jesus can't save everyone! (Lucifer could have, but ...)

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For the last time. Jesus DOES NOT love everybody.
>
>
> If you can look around the world and see what's
> happening and still spout that "Jesus Loves" crap
> then you need real help.
>
> The best you can say is that Jesus really loves
> the 1%. Like, for sure. Jesus really loves Joel
> Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, and Reverend Kanye West.

MORmON Jesus called, and He wants whatever those guys have to be sent over to LDS Inc, where it really belongs...... Because MORmON Jesus has His eye on everything, because EVERYTHING is really MORmON Jesus' stuff.


> He is crazy for them. Proof is in the pudding
> and in the bank. Jesus loves Americans more than
> most Africans, East Indians, and the Bangladeshi.
> Apparently he doesn't love women in Muslim
> Mideastern countries at all and doesn't even want
> them seen. And he lets Mormons run free to suck
> the life out of all nations, kindred, tongues, and
> people.

>>>>>>>> What kind of love is that?

-MORmON style *Love*

The MORmON solution is always, at the very least, to allow THE MORmON church to go on it's MOReMONey way unfettered, collecting everything that it owns and is entitled to ......WHICH IS EVERYTHING. IF any person has managed to survive after MORmON Jesus has taken His share then that is a just blessing from MOReMONey Jesus, and a person should be damn thankful for it ......NOT that they were entitled to it.

It just shows that when something really matters, religion is ineffective. They never have to be right. They are never called out and held responsible for anything it seems. For all their teaching of faith and miracles, they really don't have anything but personal anecdotes to deliver.

There have been three pandemics that come to mind over the centuries and the Church didn't deliver what they sell once. They don't heal amputees. They don't have any power over viruses. In fact, they probably made the pandemics worse.

The pandemic has really spotlighted who the shysters of religion are.

Should be the other way around. Has your religion -which may include politics---changed the way you view the pandemic?

Covid is grounded. Covid isn't too interested in what anybody thinks of it. Covid isn't claiming its rights cuz, constitution! Isn't claiming its rights cuz, God! Free Agency!

Your religion may make you see Covid as a test. Your politics may make you see covid as a hoax. Your selfishness may make you see covid as "only a flu" that kills old people every year anyway. Your vanity and low self esteem may make you see covid as inconvenient since you can't go another day without new nail polish and a blow out.

Covid isn't influencing anything, just spotlighting the truth that was always there.

No not at all. I am still amazed how everything that goes right is thanks to god and everything bad is evil. Maybe it is not evil and god trying to get their attention when the group goes off track. And the religions preach they are special and protected. But alas natural disasters, disease, and cruelty to mankind do not care if a person subscribes to a religion. And the people pay to belong to the religions. I do not believe in the Bible that Jesus charged the disciples to follow his teachings.

Since I no longer follow any paid religion, I don’t care. But I do find it entertaining how the churches handle COVID.

I’ll admit in the beginning I was so freaked out that I gravitated toward finding some sort of comfort in some kind, any kind of religion. I tried praying. I read stuff, even tried to get through a few pages of the BOM. Nope. Didn’t work. Back to my rational, religion-free self. Agnostic for sure. Maybe an atheist. I realized that the primal brain kicks in during times of stress. I wonder if I’ll ever be 100% free of it.

celeste Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’ll admit in the beginning I was so freaked out
> that I gravitated toward finding some sort of
> comfort in some kind, any kind of religion. I
> tried praying. I read stuff, even tried to get
> through a few pages of the BOM.

You have to be joking! Right?

that is like saying that you tried hitting yourself in the head with a hammer to dull the pain of a headache .....only that would make far more sense than reading the POS Book of MORmON for comfort, which is really a certain indication of a bout of Mental illness.

I wish I was joking. I seriously lost my mind temporarily. By the second “it came to pass” I was over it.

I almost went to mass. Seriously. I thought about going to mass because it's short, it's busy, you can wear flip flops, and ritual can be soothing. You know exactly what you're going to do and when you're going to do it. The place smells great. The kneelers have pads. You can light allllll the candles you want. Those long matches smell great, too.

I like mass. I have no idea why.

No. Still the same.

Living in Pentecostal territory, we have become more cynical of that religion. The mainstream ones are rational and reasonable. So many thinking Jesus will save them from the virus. I wrote earlier where a local Pentecostal church near my home had a grand opening inside with choirs and praising and the pastor saying that Jesus will get rid of the virus. Three are now dead and many sick with some in ICUs in East Tennessee hospitals. Idiots.... So yes I had hoped they would think more, but I did not anticipate that they actually would.

+Eric K:
"Jesus will save them from the virus"

==Nope. The purpose of the virus is to kill you. Jesus created the virus specifically to be highly contagious. Why would he get rid of a problem he created?

If I am a fireman, should I come and set your house on fire and wait for you to call me? What would you think of me? Am I a scumbag or what?

Use some logic please.

~~~~iceman9090, an atheist trying to insert some logic into you.

That boils down one of the major problems of religion in general: They create the disease and then proport to have the only cure.

Eric K Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Living in Pentecostal territory, we have become
> more cynical of that religion. The mainstream
> ones are rational and reasonable. So many
> thinking Jesus will save them from the virus. I
> wrote earlier where a local Pentecostal church
> near my home had a grand opening inside with
> choirs and praising and the pastor saying that
> Jesus will get rid of the virus. Three are now
> dead and many sick with some in ICUs in East
> Tennessee hospitals. Idiots.... So yes I had
> hoped they would think more, but I did not
> anticipate that they actually would.

Since there is no cure right now and religious and irreligious alike pile into crowded areas like supermarkets, churches and protests, I think it makes little odds.

My views are the same. Western Christianity and western civilization is certainly changing. It has been since WW2. Guys are becoming a lot more sensitive, more effeminate. Women are no longer ladies. And the biggest problem are the leaders of churches, now they are so afraid of offending someone, of being alone with a minor, of saying the wrong thing at the pulpit. Everyone is becoming soft. hardly anyone has a backbone anymore. It's sad. Our western ruggedness is in peril.

> Our western ruggedness
> is in peril.

Well see here, Pilgrim, I think I look good in pearls!! Pearls and tights!

This comment has nothing to do with what you wrote.

Every time I see your screen name, I think, "Macaroni? Macarena? The Chicken Dance?", and then I try to decide which I like better. Usually it's Macarena.

You know, when I started reading your posts, I'd reread them. Each one. After the first read I'd think, "What is he [I'm assuming you're male, but you might not be, and because I do not know how you identify, I'll be safe and use "them" and "they"]. So I'd think, "What are they talking about? Let me read that again." So, I'd read it again and think, "Oh. Wow. That really is some word salad right there. I'll try to respond to them, but it's going to be an uphill battle." I fought the good fight. I tried, I mean, I *tried* to make sense of those words. Now? I accept them as nonsensical and spend more time thinking about macaroni, Macarena, and The Chicken Dance.

I think I'll make some pasta.

I would clutch my pearls, but they've been sitting in my jewelry box for many years now.

macaRomney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guys are becoming a lot more
> sensitive, more effeminate.

Sensitive means effeminate. Thank you for clarifying that.


-----------------
> Women are no longer
> ladies.

It's about fuckin' time, wouldn't ya say?


-------------------
> And the biggest problem are the leaders of
> churches, now they are so afraid of . . . being alone with a minor. . .

Who doesn't miss the days when religious leaders could molest little children with impunity?


------------------
> Everyone is
> becoming soft.

Did you really need to share THAT?

A spammer posted a couple of threads today advertising help with "masculine development." Maybe they can help you with your little problem.


--------------------
> It's sad. Our western ruggedness is in
> peril.

You bring to mind an incident early in the Afghan War, in which horse-mounted Taliban complained that the Americans insisted on attacking from airplanes rather than fighting man-to-man on the ground. It was humorous because--follow closely--in a scientifically advanced world "western ruggedness" isn't worth your grandmother's favorite doily.

It was irrelevant before Covid-19. Still is.

Nope.

I never had a good view. Guess I've been too far away. That's my way!

Like most respondents, the answer is No. I still see no use for it.

Before the pandemic, my view of religion was one of apathy. During the pandemic, my view of religion is one of apathy*.


*Exception: the evangelists, preachers, and general nuts ignoring safety precautions due to misplaced faith, the promise of immunity as long as the church gets money, and a mentality of "Me! Me! Me!" My attitude to these folks starts with "F" and ends with "off!"

No. Just as useless as it ever was, maybe more. Unless....maybe it has the effect of wiping out a sector of our species who are genetically predisposed to live by magical thinking alone. Then the logical, rational gene pool has a better chance for survival.

Pooped Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No. Just as useless as it ever was, maybe more.
> Unless....maybe it has the effect of wiping out a
> sector of our species who are genetically
> predisposed to live by magical thinking alone.
> Then the logical, rational gene pool has a better
> chance for survival.

This post has a strong whiff of eugenics about it. It sounds exactly the same as the "herd immunity" argument which was used to say only the weak would die anyway...

It has helped create mass belief in authority though. When the newsreader speaks, the thinking has been done. Don't listen to anyone else, unless they've been fact checked by state censors.

There's no mass belief (?) in authority. If there were,

We wouldn't think the virus exists at all.
We would believe that the pandemic ended last Easter.
We would believe that warm weather has killed it.
We would believe that this is a hoax.
We would believe that COVID-19 is nothing more than the common cold or flu.

Don't compare deleterious wishful thinking and an utter, total, malign, cowardly, selfish, psychopathic, and absolute abdication of leadership to scientists who are doing their best to fact check each other and get the word out in a clear and understandable manner without the benefit of a bully pulpit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2020 11:16AM by Beth.

>>>Don't compare deleterious wishful thinking and an utter, total, malign, cowardly, selfish, psychopathic, and absolute abdication of leadership to scientists who are doing their best to fact check each other and get the word out in a clear and understandable manner without the benefit of a bully pulpit.

Well stated. Thank you.

From a Jewish standpoint:

1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQTtvikHvmk (I think this one is the best of the two different talks)

2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ttqg_Kfgvgg

Periodically, plagues and pandemics have been important issues in Jewish history for almost all of Jewish history.

Entirely aside from the purely physical disease effects of the different outbreaks (people dying of that particular disease), plagues and pandemics have also been the historical cause of many Jewish deaths at the hands of others.

When the real life circumstances arise yet again, in some new disease outbreak, Jews tend to become very serious, very fast.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2020 10:45AM by Tevai.

Yes!

All those Christians ready to feed and clothe and house and comfort everyone about to be evicted in the aptly named Housing Apocalypse warms my heart.

Oh, wait.....they’re NOT about to do just that???

Right. Why would I think a Christian would be Christ-like? My bad.

So, no. It’s the same as it ever was.

Yes

Well, has one?

Or has a paramedic changed your view of religion?

If so, got photos?

Nope-

I'm above the view.
That's high, as the sky.

because the folks here are intelligent, preferring to figure things out for themselves, and so are not seeking an 'authority' to tell them the 'right' way to do things.

The curse of thinking for ourselves is one reason we're here. We are not a random sample.


Curious as to the thinking that inspired the question though, because suspect there is a lot there.