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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: July 28, 2020 07:19PM

I have a boyfriend / friend / something who won't stop drinking.

It's gotten so bad now that he has the DTs and his hands are shaking uncontrollably.

He won't get help. He doesn't want to go AA as it's faith-based and he doesn't want to talk to anyone about it — he says he can solve his own problems with naltraxone (he mentioned Babylon 5 star Claudia Christian (Susan Ivanova) who claims to have overcome alcoholism herself). I have suggested other secular groups including groups that meet remotely. He says he refuses to "submit to a higher power" and that it's a bunch of BS.

He's also afraid of the virus and won't go outside. His job allows him to work from home over via the internet. I'm working out of state so I'm not there. His house is full of trash, unwashed dishes, etc. Last time I was there the kitchen was so filthy I had to just throw away a sinkful of dirty dishes and rancid food.

He's a smart guy, but won't listen to anyone and it takes a ton of arguing to get him to do anything. He goes on binges over the weekend on booze, porn, and World of Warcraft. I can tell because he starts sending me weird messages about an ex who broke his heart and wants risque pictures of me to view while exciting himself.

He's around forty and he's probably going to drink himself to death.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2020 12:23AM by anybody.

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Posted by: Confused somehow ( )
Date: July 28, 2020 07:34PM

Is this the best you can do??

Life is short, don't take on problems you don't need.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: July 28, 2020 07:42PM

I'm sorry. It's hard to watch a friend go down the tubes.

As you likely know, it is very important to take care of yourself. It is tempting to get into a mode of the rescuer or codependency. Look for resources about codependency if you need assistance in this regard.

The OCD spectrum can include hoarding disorder. Hoarding often is the result of trauma. IMO people with OCD also need to be evaluated for anxiety and/or depression. Your friend might be trying to self-medicate. I would bring this up with him, and encourage him to seek medical advice and counseling.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: July 28, 2020 08:01PM

Just hard to see someone you know kill themselves.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: July 29, 2020 06:35AM

I just had the weirdest dream that I was hanging out with Karen Carpenter.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: July 28, 2020 08:13PM

I have no words of wisdom, but I empathize very deeply.

Both of my parents had "end-stage alcoholism" written on their Death Certificates as "cause of death" (one, the primary cause of death; the other, end-stage alcoholism secondary to cancer).

Growing up was frequently a nightmare, and so (in very different ways) were each of their deaths.

I am sorry...and I intensely feel for what you are going through.

Since you are not dealing with parents or other relatives, may I respectfully suggest that you remove yourself from this situation?

From my very biased perspective, there is no potential, or even possible, up-side to this kind of situation.

Since you CAN get out, I suggest (and hope) you do.

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Posted by: spwdone ( )
Date: July 28, 2020 08:52PM

I am so sorry. Ultimately there is nothing you can do, except care for yourself. Get in touch with Al-anon, there are virtual meetings going on. Hearing from others with similar experiences can be amazingly helpful

If your friend/boyfriend doesn’t want help you cannot make him. Don’t let him drag you down. I am sorry for your loss.

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: July 28, 2020 09:29PM

You are obviously a very good and caring person. However you can not forcebly interfere with his agency to commit alcoholic suicide. If he chooses this path then the behaviorial consequences are his and his alone to bear.
It is sad but the only thing that I can see for you to do is bail.
This is my opinion only and not medical advice. do what you have to but take of yourself!

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2020 09:30PM by thedesertrat1.

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Posted by: MormonMartinLuther ( )
Date: July 28, 2020 10:30PM

Just because a person drinks three of the same brand beer in a row doesn't mean they have OCD

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: July 28, 2020 11:15PM

Seen this a few times with certain people myself. Sometimes some need to hit rock bottom to change but it's a process the individual has to recognize and fix, most people like being lazy and being dirty, there are lots of people who lack the zest for a worthwhile life, the enthusiasm for new adventure. If he doesn't want to venture out as you do, then do what's wise and fill your life with many activities and experiences. Take it all in, the world is full of many wonderful things. Don't sit around in the dark.

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Posted by: Brother Bacon Sandwich ( )
Date: July 29, 2020 12:23AM

Rational Recovery is a non-faith based recovery approach.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: July 29, 2020 03:31AM

"If you're obsessing on somebody else's behavior, Al-Anon is for you."

Advice given to me over thirty years ago, and I'm still going... The program also saved my parents' marriage.

I can't endorse Rational Recovery mentioned below; an old friend/mentor--a PhD psychologist now retired--told me how he had to "uninvite" them to the prestigious University of Utah School on Alcohol and Drug Dependencies because people found their message so offensive.

Alcoholism is a "primary disease," and abstinence must be achieved first before dealing with problems such as OCD behaviors.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: July 29, 2020 07:01AM

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: July 29, 2020 11:13AM

She held down a job for 28 years and now is working part time for the IRS and took her pension. She drunk texts every night and tells everyone off. She lost her marriage and her boyfriend over this type of behavior. There isn't a guy who will date her as somewhere along the way, she has told every guy she is interested in off via drunk texting.

She always tends to kick me when I'm down. I'm more of a mother figure to her than sister as I took care of her and my other little brother (we have a disabled brother around their age). So whenever I have something going on, my 2 siblings freak out. I've had some very DIFFICULT things going on, let alone I had cataract surgery 2 weeks ago. My sister drunk texted me and told me off 2 times before the surgery and my younger brother called and had my crying for 2 hours the day after my surgery on my eye no less.

Both of them drink too much. My brother only drinks Friday nights, but gets drunk and that is when he calls me.

I have sister blocked, as does my other sister, and everyone else in the family except a few and so she was drunk texting my daughter (she drunk texted my son after he had just been in the hospital as he had a breakdown), and she was drunk texting my nephew who is going through a HORRIBLE divorce.

Then the day after, she acts like nothing happened.

I can't do any more for her and I refuse to. I've tried as I worry myself to death about her, but I can't. I just can't anymore. She either gets help or I'm done. There are so many programs these days, there has to be something your friend can do, but he has to want to.

At least I can say my sister is definitely not a slob. Her house is immaculate. Nobody in the family is speaking to her now and she has no friends. Her boyfriend was one of the best guys and she drove him away. Her only child watches out for her, but he can only do so much.

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Posted by: ziller ( )
Date: July 29, 2020 01:37PM

in b 4 ~ ¿ you need a place to stay tonite bebe ? ~

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: July 29, 2020 04:20PM

Hi Anybody

I've mentioned before being one of the "non-practising" alcoholics (as in a non-practising Catholic, etc. ;-) here at RfM. My father is also a "recovering" alcoholic (44 years sober, hence my quote marks).

My father used AA to stop - and it worked, but here in Europe, AA appears very different from the US version and is not really faith-based, since the "higher power" can be anything you like (including your own conscience).

I have been to AA with my Dad (as a family observer) but at the end of my 25 years or so of alcoholic drinking, I actually ended it on my own, although I used many things gleaned from AA's literature. One Day At A Time is actually a very powerful and empowering concept, because it brings the horizon of success much closer. I didn't like the 'higher power' bit either because it didn't bring me anything extra.

I would echo SLCabbie's recommendation of Al Anon which has helped several people I've known over the years.*

As for stopping your friend drinking: you can't - and he only can after serious work on himself which he doesn't sound in a fit state to do.

Protect yourself.

Tom in Paris

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: July 30, 2020 09:48AM

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Posted by: Recovered Molly Mormon ( )
Date: July 30, 2020 11:56AM

Anybody, I am sorry that you have to go thru this pain of watching someone you love deteriorate and destroy their life.

However,and Im sure you know this deep inside, you can not rescue him from this state. You can only suggest and offer support.

Before you do anymore, ask yourself "At what cost am I paying to be in this relationship? Is the price too high? Does it come at the cost of your own emotional well-being? Financial?

Clearly the relationship is already compromised. Define healthy boundaries now. You just might have to give a dreaded ultimatum. "Unless you get help, there will be no US. I will not stand by and watch you slowly kill yourself".

REFUSE to be an enabler. Do not buy him alcohol. Do not engage with him when he is drunk. Do not send naughty pics. Disengage immediately when he is on a bender. Let him know "I will talk to you when you are sober". Do not clean up after him. He is 40 years old FFS! As long as he can depend on YOU for his needs that alcohol won't meet..he WILL.

Think of it this way. He is cheating on you with booze. He will do anything and everything to get her. He will lie to you and make up every excuse in the world why he can't leave booze. He needs her to get up, get it up, sleep, think, not think, etc. You have now become "the other woman" who is competing for his loyalty and devotion.

If he will not attend AA or some other program (the talking and acknowledgment of damaged relationships are crucial in recovery) consider going yourself. Significant others are also welcome at AA meetings and sharing your thoughts and feelings can be beneficial to YOU as well as others who are recovering. 

Your boyfriend may not believe in a higher power, but I hope you understand that for an addict to begin a recovery process they must do it for themselves. They must admit there is a problem and drinking has damaged their life (and acknowledge in what ways and try to make reconciliation with their own actions) Many recovering alcoholics have shared that drinking was bigger than anything in their life and they needed "a higher power" to help them thru it. The addiction is bigger than they are, so there needs to be a bigger "warrior" to help them thru the fight.

My heart aches that you have to go thru this. DO make yourself the highest priority. I had to make this decision twice in my life and while it hurts to walk away from someone you love it is far less painful than watching someone kill themself.

You are not responsible for his issues. Please remember that. All you can do is tell him you love him and remind him he is responsible for his own life and health.


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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: July 30, 2020 04:47PM

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: July 30, 2020 07:40PM

That’s the thing. It’s too easy to hold a friend’s hand all the way to Hell.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: July 30, 2020 08:06PM

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Posted by: wondering ( )
Date: July 30, 2020 04:41PM

He refuses to submit to a higher power but he allows alcohol to lead and destroy his life. Tell him the higher power is alcohol and he is submitting to it.

Just a suggestion,do not know if it would work

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Posted by: ookami ( )
Date: July 31, 2020 12:15AM

I'm sorry, anybody. Your boyfriend has a serious problem and I'm not sure what to say.

Some things that might be helpful or not:

I tried quitting smoking on my own over a year ago. I thought I could go cold turkey without anyone's help. I relapsed.

He can't quit on his own; he needs help.

Unfortunately, you can't fix someone who isn't willing to fix themselves.

I'm not sure whether to recommend you try and talk to him about getting help from secular addiction recovery groups or to tell you to abandon the disaster that will happen if he keeps drinking like this.

Addiction and mental health issues (judging from your description of his binges and state of his apartment, I think there's something else going on in his head) is hell to go through alone. But then, being helpless as someone you care about throws away their life is at least as horrible as that.

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Posted by: kathleen ( )
Date: July 31, 2020 12:57AM

I had a drinking boyfriend. Sometimes, I drove the car. Once, I noticed a sheepish look on his face as he pulled out a bottle of wine that he sneaked along.

Guess who could have been charged with "driving with an open container." --Me!

That ended it for me.

Anybody, you yourself could get in all kinds of trouble with that guy. Just quote mormon scripture to him: "... I bid you adieu."

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