Hello everyone, I was just talking to my exmo cousin who committed to UGA. I said "make sure you get laid" and he said "I know... I need to get laid." At that very second, my mom sprinted into basement and screamed "You don't need to get laid ****" (name not said for doxxing purpouses) She ripped into me and I was soooo close to telling her my true feelings about the mormon church. 15 minutes later, my dad came down and said everything was about to be gone for me if I don't shape up (including my sports). My iPhone is gone, idk how long but I have a feeling it's gonna be taken for a long time. I'll probably tell my parents how I know the mormon church isn't true tomorrow. I'll keep you guys posted. Who knows, maybe I won't. I've just gotta think logically, and make sure my heads clear. Hopefully they'll all swallow the red pill and find out it's not true.

Any advice is always welcome, thanks for reading!

Keep a low profile .

Hopefully you've learned a valuable lesson. Sound travels.

Spend some time learning about situational awareness.

Basically learning to always be aware of what and who is around you. Good situational awareness can save your life. You'll be a better driver and over time you'll learn to naturally observe your surroundings and avoid potentially dangerous situations.

I've talked on the phone with him hundreds of times... I guess it was about time that someone heard. I'll defiantly try to be more aware.

Your dad gave you fair warning about what to expect if you keep going in the same direction. Do you really want to test him on this? I agree with Dave the Atheist -- it is in your best interest to keep a low profile. If your parents ask you about this incident again, tell them you were joking around with your cousin. But honestly, I would just keep your chin down and do the Mormon program for now.

ditto

This morning as my dad and I were driving to church, I told him we were just messing around. He said "oh no that's serious" but I think I'll be fine as long as I act like a tbm. I was reading the 7 habits of highly effective people last night, and it told me in habit 5, to understand peoples point of view. I tried my best to look through my parents eyes and that helped.

Hmm. I don't know. It sounds like they're on to you.

I'd probably say, "And you think that taking away privileges will magically give me a testimony that I don't have?"

People either believe something, or they don't. Another person can't insist that you believe something, if you don't. You can't just decide to believe it.

I'd probably say, "I can promise to tow the line and be a good Mormon as long as I'm under your roof. But you can't force belief on me."

Anyway, it does sound like you're headed for a showdown, because they definitely know that something's up.

I would definitely start with, "Dad, it was just a joke," first and see how that goes. If he pushes it, you may have to come clean.

This is my strategy as of now. I'll keep you posted if it changes.

Is your phone locked?

No, taken from me.

I meant can your family get into your phone?

There's no reason to try and force a parental religious confrontation when you're a minor.

Unfortunately, people who are religiously deluded most of the time don't redirect their children's right to have a different opinion. That's because their religion explicitly teaches them that only old religious authorities are wise.

It's very difficult for a lot of people to accept that their are facts that they are ignorant about and that others, especially their children, might have greater knowledge. Religion teaches that the human mind is to be feared and limited, to be placed in shackles.

Mental chains are often harder to break than physical ones.

I say all this to warn you: your parents almost certainly will not be susceptible to reason. They won't care what you have to say. So save yourself the pain and effort and put it into ways to become independent of them so that you can live your true self.

I agree with what others are saying, to just wait for that conversation until you are independent. Exmo adults have a hard enough time with their family and members of the church treating them in an isolating and hateful way. Especially if you refuse to be convinced/converted. Remember: the church's counsel for members dealing with those who are anti-Mormon is not to "sit there and listen" but the opposite.

The stand you think you want to take is not going to be to your benefit. In the future, you'll look back and think, "Why did I do that?" You have no idea what life really is like. I know at your age you don't want to hear that, but it is the truth. Listen to summer and Dave. They are correct.

Yes, I agree too

Hopefully, your parents will just forget about having any kind of talk with you and you can just safely slip back under the radar.

Hujo2, I've gone back and forth about giving you the following advice. But it's good advice, and IMO advice you desperately need. So here goes:

I totally get the raging hormones. We've all been there. At your age, sex is constantly on your mind. I get that.

BUT...when you repeatedly talk about "getting laid," you are inadvertently turning your potential partner into a "thing." No woman, or young woman, wants to be thought of as a thing. She is not there just for you to get your pleasure.

Right now you are thinking, but we will both have fun! And my blunt, honest answer to that is, probably not. If it's the woman's first time, it will be at least somewhat painful for her, especially in the hands of an amateur. And that is exactly what you are -- an amateur. You have no idea what you will be doing. If you last longer than ten seconds your first time around, I'd be shocked. Ten seconds will be enough for you to climax, but it won't be even close to enough for your girlfriend to climax. Not...even...close. So, not much fun for her. Maybe no fun at all. Now if she loves you, or is in love with you, that would make a huge difference. See where I'm going with this?

Sex is a complex set of skills that takes a while to learn and a long time to master. As a beginner, you are not going to have much to offer your partner unless she is mad crazy about you. Even then...

So please show your future partner some respect. Stop talking about "getting laid." She is, and will be, a feeling, thinking human being, and she deserves to have some fun as well.

Honestly the best thing that you could do in High School is to get as much experience as you can short of having sex. Learn how to kiss. Women love a good kisser! (This alone would make you the talk of your high school among the young women.) Learn how to touch a woman, so that she sighs with pleasure. This could even be a touch to the forearm or neck. In time, learn how to make her climax without ever getting her clothes off -- yes, it can be done. That will take good communication skills because you will need to listen to your girlfriend's feedback about what feels good and what doesn't. And that will be different for every woman.

In short, use this time to learn and master sub-skills that will come in very, very handy for you one day.

Do you remember your first football game? Did your coach just throw you out on the field, or did he expect you to learn some fundamentals first? That is what I referring to -- learning the fundamentals. Knowing the fundamentals will pay off for you in the long run. Okay?

Yes, and thanks summer:). It's not as much on my mind as you probably think it is, but it is there lol. My exmo cousin cares a lot more about it than I do, (IMO) but still helpful advice regardless. Thanks!

You are most welcome. :) You are at the point now where you can begin to create your wonderful life, and we all wish you well on that. We are rooting you on!

I really appreciate all the advice, whats you're exmo story summer?

I'm a nevermo! (never a Mormon.) A good friend of mine converted in high school, and I spent years wondering what made her do that. We spent a lot of time discussing her new-found faith. We both took a comparative religions class in high school. She brought in a film or filmstrip called "Meet the Mormons" which outlined the basics. I wanted to howl with derision when told that "the angel took [the golden] plates away." Instead, I sat in the darkened room, marvelling.

When it came time to visit our prospective universities, we took a trip out west together. She visited my school, and in turn, I visited BYU. You can imagine what an eye-opener that was! Together we visited friends from her home ward, and I watched them go out on dates (asking myself, why is that good-looking woman going out with such an obvious dweeb? And a self-important dweeb at that? -- it wasn't until much later that I learned about the value put on RMs by Mormon women.) I toured the academic buildings, concluding that the major in home & family science (sorry, can't remember the exact name) was a course for prospective housewives. (I'm sorry, who does that anymore?) I noted the classes aimed at "return missionaries" (What's that, and why do they need their own religion classes?). I attended a variety show that featured a performance by The Lamanite Generation." (What's a Lamanite?) Curiouser and curiouser.

All over campus I saw and met some thoroughly nice people who were not even remotely like me.

My friend and I visited Temple Square. A senior missionary asked me, didn't I want to be married for eternity? I wasn't sure that I wanted to be married at all. But I kept my council.

My friend and I eventually parted ways for many years, but my curiousity about Mormonism never died. I read what I could about it, which back in those days, if you were outside of the Mormon bubble, wasn't much. Eventually I found my way to this board, around 2007. It took me a good three years to get up to speed. I stuck around because I like the community here very much, and I like to help out by giving a nevermo perspective. I know what it's like to live a good, productive life without Mormonism, and I like to reassure new exmos that they can have a happy and thoroughly normal life outside of the church.

I got back in touch with my high school friend many years later. I was glad to hear that she had left the church. I think like many converts she had gone in naive and trusting, hoping that Mormonism would be her best path in life. She found out otherwise.

So that's my story. :)

Wow! I'm so glad you never joined! Also glad your friend left too. You certainly have reassured me that theres "normal" outside of mormonism. Such an interesting story! When I'm 18, (just 3 years and a week!) I'll post my official exmo bio.

I saw this documentary on netflix the other night and it really bothered me.

The OP might consider watching it.

Audrie and Daisy.

My ultra-TBM wife and I were meeting our bishop for counselling. The subject of that meeting was what to do about our rebellious youths. My wife wanted to clamp down on our teenagers even harder.

The bishop shared some wisdom (from a Stephen Covey book): All youth rebel. Developing your identity is part of becoming an independent person.

The key to parenting is to recognize what is "experimental" and what is truly dangerous. My mother didn't object when I joined the Church. If that was my rebelliousness in my first year of college after giving her no grief whatsoever during school, then she could accept it since I was otherwise responsible (especially considering what my younger sister and brother were already getting into.)

My advice to a youth is to not do anything truly dangerous. How would you advise a friend about to make a decision?

Each of our 3 children rebelled:
How did each rebel? What was the outcome?

Son - drugs - disastrous [36, homeless, child apprehended]
Daughter - academics - full scholarship [33 career, own home, marriage last month]
Daughter - boys - disastrous [30 married to layabout who got her pregnant, both children apprehended]

I haven't read every posting to learn how old you are now, but I will assume you are between 14 to 18 (old enough to seriously rebel, but before a mission). You are old enough now that you are beginning to make decisions that your ~35 year old self will have to live with. Do take that into consideration.

I will close with an anecdote. One Sunday our Gospel Doctrine teacher announced that he had an IQ of 160. He could recite any scripture or the Gettysburg Address from memory with no prompting. Later that afternoon at home my wife says to me, "Brother L. is easily as smart as you. Why does he work as a 7-11 store clerk?"

Brother L. and I were born in the same year. But Brother L's son is 9 years older than my son. While I was studying in university, Brother L. was already married with several children. Think about that when you think you've "got to get laid."

Fortunately, I was never influenced by what is "cool." Of course, that partially explains why I joined the Church.

I am not saying that you must follow the Church's program onto a mission and into oblivion. I encountered countless people who did patently stupid acts because they foolishly abandoned all critical thinking because the Church was involved.

Be faithful or unfaithful. That is for you to decide. BUT YOU MUST BE SMART!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2020 04:18PM by idleswell.

Idleswell, I apologize for my ignorance, but what do you mean by "child apprehended" and "children apprehended"?



idleswell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Each of our 3 children rebelled:
> How did each rebel? What was the outcome?
>
> Son - drugs - disastrous [36, homeless, child
> apprehended]
> Daughter - academics - full scholarship [33
> career, own home, marriage last month]
> Daughter - boys - disastrous [30 married to
> layabout who got her pregnant, both children
> apprehended]
>

Arrested or taken into state custody.

Since it's a child or children who was/were referenced, would it mean "removed from parent's custody"? It's just an odd choice of words.

I understand that when children are taken into custody by a province (in Canada) it is called "apprehension." The term has been used because in Canada one of the demands in the manifestos by Black Lives Matter and the Truth and Reconciliation Commission is a total ban on "apprehension" of children from Families of Colour or Indigenous Peoples.

Btw, the mother of my son's daughter was Indian (a status under Canadian law). They were given 10 minutes after her birth with their child at the hospital before she was apprehended by the Province of Ontario.

What alternative did Family and Child Services have? The father was 27 but was homeless except for the ~12 times he had been in prison; the mother was only 16 and also homeless. Both parents were active drug abusers. They had no place to live and would have rejected any place given to them. How could any newborn baby live as a street person?

My son has court cases this month that could sentence him to over 10 years in prison. His charges are selling impure drugs that resulted in the death of a teenager and human trafficking (forcing another teenage girl into prostitution).

My granddaughter's mother died of a drug overdose ~2 years ago.

Neither parent is ready for custody for their child.

I'm so terribly sorry, Idleswell. Is your granddaughter living with foster parents now? Or with family? Do you get to see her?

My granddaughter lives with my TBM ex-wife. I am unsure if she has her in foster care or has finally subsumed our son's parental rights. All 3 of our grandchildren live with my ex-wife.

I saw the grandchildren last weekend for my midyear visit. I can also see them at Christmas. As a bonus, the province where I live has an LDS temple. When it resumes sessions I may get a grandchild for the day when my ex is sacrificing for the dead.

My son spoke to me after many years of oscillating between silence or vows to kill his father on sight. He says he wants to parent his daughter. He fears that his mother could abuse his daughter. He is not unjustified - especially as the child seeks for her independence.

I have said that I wished my son could assume his role as a father. The transformation(s) that he would have to make would benefit him immensely.

I have on my Facebook page an interview between my son and a reporter from the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC). My son had set a tent on a public sidewalk in downtown Toronto. Apparently if you start squatting on a public place in the City of Toronto they give you 14 days to vacate. The reporter was questioning my son when he had 3 days left before eviction. My son can not comprehend why he can't camp on this street indefinitely.

His mother and I would pray that he would have some experience that might cause him to rethink his life assumptions. But nothing has reached him: not being beaten and robbed by other street criminals multiple times; not having cancer twice; not jail; not registering as a sex offender. So why should having his child apprehended be any different?

His poverty is because people (his parents and then the government) won't give him enough money. He is not poor because he has never been employed other than panning (street begging) or dealing drugs.

When we were still in the same town, members of our ward would ask me, "Why isn't (your son) at home where he can be safe?"

The answer (that I always must keep to myself) is that he lives outside our home for *our* safety.

I would have challenged them to bring a random homeless person home with them. On the drive home, your house guest mentions:

- He doesn't recognize personal property. He is justified in taking whatever he wants from anybody else.

- Drug laws are unconstitutional. He will smoke anything he wishes in your home. He will give any drugs he happens to have with him to your youth older than 10.

- Age of consent laws are bogus. He will have sex with anyone in your home if he wants. He will use force, compulsion, disabling drugs if they resist.

(His criminal record supports all this.)

At what point do you decide that this person is *not* welcome?

When our son was touring out West to BC my mother would not permit her grandson to visit her except in public.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2020 11:26PM by idleswell.

I think you've not only made a good decision, but the only rational decision.

Don't worry, I will. Thank you.

If you are underage, heres what you do. Mirrors my story:

Mormon program--give it lip service, but not a dime. Bear no testimony. Give a barley passing interview--this way they wont give you any callings.

Save your money and begin developing a plan for the day you are over 18 and wish to take the red pill.

Ask some minor questions that are less than faith promoting... just enough to show that you are devout and serious, but have some seeds of doubt. Each time you ask a SMALL question that cant be answered without mental gymnastics, you help to sew a seed in their subconscious and lay the first stones.

I started when I was 14 (14 is the age to question which church to go to is it not?) and laid bits and pieces. By the time I was 19 it was so easy when asked if i was going on a mission "Not until my questions have been answered to my satisfaction."

Decades later, my family are ALL OUT--yay! Red pills for everyone! But, they never want to mention that I was the first to take the plunge into reality.

Consider praying to Real God (if he/she/they) exist and ask for help escaping the CULT. If nothing else, it may help you psychologically endure.

Wishing you the best my friend. If all else fails, tunnel out. Keep digging, it may be long and hard, but the daylight is warm....

Having been one to obey all the commandments, go on a mission, etc., etc., I agree now that getting laid is more important than all that. I was such a fool. Did you see "Little Miss Sunshine?" Take the grandpa's advice to heart:

"Listen to me; don't make the same mistakes I made when I was young. F*** a lotta women Dwayne, not just one woman, a lotta women."

I've got 6 I can lend you. In the spirit of sharing of course.