I, as of now would make a fake vaccine, and say it's around 75% accurate. I'm curious if the placebo affect would work here. I would tell the at risk and elderly to stay at home/safe.

I may get called evil for this, but data shows almost everyone from 0-60 doesn't die from this. I have a better chance getting shot in NYC than dying from corona.

Life would go back to 80-90% normal doing this. (IMHO)

Oh, and as always If I'm wrong about anything, please correct me.

What would you guys do?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2020 06:31PM by hujo2.

I wouldn't make a fake vaccine, or fake anything.

Placebo effect doesn't impact germs - they still do their thing. In fact, in the midst of a pandemic, trying out placebos could well be considered malpractice, at best, as well as negligence to a criminal degree.

The best practice from science and medical experts is to impart accurate, complete information to the public and make the best recommendations that top experts agree can be effective in combating disease. The best approach the public can take is to become informed, keep updated, consult with one's primary care physician/s as necessary, choose the best way forward considering all one's unique circumstances, check one's sources for their level of expertise, position and reputation within their profession and implement the most relevant and informed advice for oneself and one's dependents.

I'm a big no on fakery. If you falsely claim that a so-called vaccine is 75% effective this will exert zero placebo effect on a person who is infected by a virus or any other disease-causing organism. The nasty bugs will know it's a placebo because they'll be thriving despite its presence. The individual will not know and will wonder why they fall ill, which will be due to the negligence, dishonesty and quackery of any so-called cures that are not real or effective.

"...data shows almost everyone from 0-60 doesn't die from this."

Even if so, the part that some seem to forget or discount is that an infected person can transmit the virus to others. They, in turn, can indeed become very ill and perhaps die. Also, it is as yet unknown what the long term effects are even if a case is so-called mild and the person seems to recover OK. In particular, there seem to be potential long term significant consequences in various major organs in the body, including the brain.

And apart from all other serious considerations, why take a chance on getting infected with a new ("novel") virus, with unknown short and long term effects on oneself and potentially infecting others who may suffer significantly from contracting it?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2020 07:03PM by Nightingale.

Look at New Zealand

More about real leadership than anything else. Something absent here.

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Look at New Zealand

Exactly. They're dealing with a new cluster as we speak.

If we had to have a lock down, I would have liked it to be a serious one. That means close down all the stores, not just the ma and pop mainstreet stores while letting Big Box make billions off the hysteria (Walmart). I would have closed down the state lines, no exceptions. I would have grounded the airline industry indefinitely until they actually come up with a plan of how they are going to clean up their mess. If there is someone to blame it's the travel tourism industry at the top of the list. They should be held responsible.

The only essential service would be the police.

Hopefully Americans are prepared enough, self reliant enough that they could have withstood these 3 weeks. If we could have followed the quarantine rules the virus would have been eradicated.

You would close down all stores? Grocery and pharmacies?

Close all state lines? Do you realize how many major cities there are near state lines, with lots of essential workers that have to cross. Even US/Canada are letting in medical workers who live across the border.

Airlines? Every government in the world could have stopped all air traffic into/out of their country with the stroke of a pen.

Only police are essential services? Glad you are still in touch with your inner authoritarian, but aren't medical workers essential? Fire departments? Municipal water supplies? Electric utilities? Internet? Radio and tv stations for emergency notifications? Phone services? Trash pickup?

Granted, a serious lockdown followed by rigorous testing and contact tracing could control this. Easier said than done. It helps a lot to be an island.

What would John Donne have to say about that?

True

So...hujo. What you wrote is, well, misanthropic.

What? You have a problem with weakening the fabric of society by exploiting people's trust to lie to them and profit off their trust/gullibility? Hardly anyone would die, maybe 1 in a thousand. A few dozen per thousand with damaged hearts and lungs. Collateral damage.

To make an omelet, ya gotta break a few eggs. Ask Gordon Gekko.

/s

I think the plan needs some tweaking.

I said I'd get hate lol.

It's not hate, hujo. What you wrote is misanthropic.

I would hold a contest with a $10M prize for whoever demonstrates an effective cure for COVID19. All comers welcome. You prove your stuff is safe to try, treat sick patients in a controlled setting, and the successes move on to the next round like America’s Got Talent.

Ten million would be lunch money. There are already billion dollar contracts being let to companies that have promising candidate vaccines, but are still a long way from being proven safe and effective.

Below are some actual numbers to demonstrate your point. So far the US government has committed the following conditional sums to companies with what appear to be promising vaccines under development:

J&J: $456 million from the US government

Moderna: $483 million

AstraZenica: $1.2 billion

Novavax: $1.6 billion

GlaxoSmithKline: $2.1 billion

Emergent BioSolutions: $628 million

The total to date is approaching $7 billion. So no, $10 million isn't anywhere close to enough "prize money" to motivate the bio-pharmaceutical giants.



https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/08/02/surprise-heres-how-much-a-coronavirus-vaccine-will.aspx

Regardless of which company gets there first, I think I know who will take the credit.

A Trump health official today claimed that any vaccine developed in the US would only be made available to other countries after domestic needs were met. An interesting situation could develop since some of the companies to which research money has been given are not US companies. GlaxoSmithKline is one such company. Would the US expect first dibs on a vaccine from such a company because of its investment or would the company's first obligation be to its home country? Interesting potential for disagreements.

Isn’t limiting the solution to vaccines part of the problem? How do we know there’s not something better than vaccines?

There is a ton of money going into treatment as well. But treatment does not confer immunity, so it is not an ultimate solution.

Okay but why don’t they have open auditions like America’s Got Talent for these kinds of problems? Instead of paying the mega corporations insider megabucks for crap that doesn’t work.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2020 02:52AM by bradley.

Medical BioScience isn't something you can do in your garage or basement.

I know some guys...

No you don't. Not when it comes to pharmaceutical innovation, which can't be done in Steve Jobs' garage nor even in a well-equipped hospital.

Well, we’ll just see how this all plays out won’t we?

You seriously think people in a garage can create a vaccine that costs billions of dollars and years of tests? That somebody has a clean room in their garage?

Bradley, get a grip.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2020 01:56AM by Lot's Wife.

Maybe it's a big garage?

Maybe it's wired for 220?

And it has a skylight!

Do you have any idea of the FDA regulations around drug development, Bradley?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2020 11:18AM by Devoted Exmo.

Did I say vaccine? How do you know a vaccine is the right solution? I would rather have a treatment that knocks out COVID19 after a few days. A little something that doesn’t use drugs or needles, just hold it next to my skin and let it electronically amplify my vital force. Electronic faith healing has been effective for a wide variety of physical and mental ailments. Anecdotal evidence says three days on Covid. It’s not theoretical, this stuff exists.

If I were in charge of COVID19, I’d pursue that line of treatment. I mean, to answer OP’s question. Of course, doing so would severely impact the profitability of the medical industry. Ironically, Covid seems like it might solve the latter problem by wrecking the existing economy. So maybe it’s better that I’m not in charge of Covid19 after all.

It doesn't matter if it's a vaccine or a treatment. It has to be created under strict FDA guidelines and be proven safe and effective. You can't do either in your garage.

I have mine. Maybe someday you’ll have one too.

"I have a better chance getting shot in NYC than dying from corona."

Go stand in the middle of 5th Avenue.

You won't need a Corona.

Hujo2--you are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG/

Consider yourself corrected.

If I were in charge of the COVID 19 response,
If I were the POTUS,
If I were a Governor,
If I were a bishop or stake president,
If I were a mission president,
If I were The LDS Prophet of God, or a medical doctor, or both,

I would try to save as many lives as possible, and tell everyone to wash their hands, distance 6 feet, wear a mask, avoid groups and crowds, and stay home as much as possible.

Unfortunately lives will always be lost. It is what it is. I'm terribly sorry for everyone who has died and I don't think the should've but with a politically driven pandemic, you have to base things off of science.

Your age is showing.

True that, but to be fair, I know a 74 year old who thinks more or less like that. Bernie Madoff, and Martin Shkreli, who had that totally infuriating smirk when called to account for jacking the price of an HIV drug into the stratosphere. Bernie and Martin ended up in prison. Future outcome still pending for the first person I alluded to. Sociopathic greed tends not to end well, though it often works for a while.

"You're only young once, but you can be immature forever."

> "You're only young once, but you can be immature forever."

Words to live by... And it's not just a dream!

Do you know how I've spent my last three years? I've done my utter best to keep my parents alive, healthy, and provided for, after they were both hit with medical catastrophes. I had to close down my mother's business, make sure all their bills were and are paid, arrange all their medical care, set up legal protections, and on and on.

And despite that, my father still died last year, and my mother risks getting sick every time she travels for cancer treatment. Get back to me when you've had to arrange a funeral that would satisfy both the Mormon and non-Mormon sides of your family, as well as find a gravesite that answered your parents' different demands, while getting them to reconcile the things they each didn't want.

That's what people do who care - never mind the thousand other tasks I don't have time to mention.


And no matter what grievances you have with Mormonism, as far as I can tell, you appear to still have internet, a roof over your head, clean clothes, and more sustenance than well over half the world gets. Correct me if I'm wrong.

So do me a favor and stuff your privilege where the sun doesn't shine.


You seem to have people who care. Learn to do the same.

Tyson (who had to severely edit this down)

Thank you Tyson. I completely agree that the privilege is strong in this one.

Thank-you, Tyson.

First:
I would not pump up the panic.
Second:
I would tell people the powers that be are doing everything that they able to do to work us through the crises.
Third:
I would tell the truth as I see it about dealing with the problem.
Last:
I would tell the people to stay calm We will get through this!

But, you know, why stay small. A mere tiny little virus?

Go big!

What I would REALLY like to do is a placebo double-blind study on skydiving. To determine if parachutes are really effective.
A spin-off study could be to determine if gravity exists.

I mean -- no one has ever done it.
Could make a real impact.
Leave your mark on the world.

Were I CoViD-19 boss?

I would do precisely what every other civilized country has done in successfully combatting this virus.

For example:
if the USA could have executed the response South Korea has already, there would be today roughly 1500 deaths, schools would be open, baseball season would be a go and unemployment would be 4%.

Could we still do it? Sure. But USA chooses exceptionality.

Not rocket science, but it is work and requires discipline (i.e. reason above emotion)

ROFLMAO!

Discipline. Hardly an American attribute I suspect.

I live where schools are open and working as usual, stores are open, restaurants, bars, clubs are open, cinemas, gyms, even the zoo ..open. We have football matches with crowds of 20,000 to 30,000...not a single case of the virus resulting from those crowds.
We currently have three active cases in a city of just over 2 million, none in hospital, all in hotel quarantine because they are returned travelers.
My state did virtually the same as New Zealand although stores were never told to close and many stayed open...some chose to close for the duration because of no passing trade and those are now open again.However bars, cafes and restaurants were closed but were allowed to reopen when it was clear we had no community transfer. Many worked from home but are now going back to offices in the CBD.
Our state borders are closed and will remain so for a while yet.

Apart from Victoria and New South Wales most states and territories in Australia are in a similar position so I would do what those states have done and what New Zealand did.
Figures from my state...Covid cases 642...recovered 630...deaths 9....active...3.

New Zealand has a batch of new cases right now, and they've spread faster than anticipated.

I can only speak for others:


If Kathleen were in charge of the Covid-19 she would still be looking for it with no clue as to where she left it making it lost and harmless.

Lot's Wife would be stupifying Covid and causing it so much confusion with the bombardment of fact that Covid's eyes would cross and wouldn't know who to infect next.

Elderolddog would have Covie laughing its ass off with some kind of bat jokes rendering the virus weak and useless for transmission as it wondered who this Saucie is Elderolddog goes on about.

Brother of Jerry, not being up for any nonsense at all would just dice it with a few sharp sentences.

Dave the Atheist would run it out of town on a rail.

And Susan I/S would make a cute outfit for it and sew it's mouth shut at the same time so it couldn't hurt anybody.




Me? Don't know what I'd do. I'm hiding in the corner. Scares the crap out of me.

HAHAHAHHAHA

Just make COVID19 sit through a General Conference. It will kill itself in the first two hours.

Ha ha! That's the best.

Oh D&D! I will admit to thinking about getting this - https://www.giantmicrobes.com/us/products/coronavirus.html

I did get these for my nephew when he turned 16.
https://www.giantmicrobes.com/us/products/taintedlove.html

SUSAN! Your really got those for you nephew? I am even more in awe of you now.

I AM in charge!

I say don't get it.

Get it?

I would have shut down international travel immediately. But you can't shut the stable door after the horse has bolted. They couldn't do this because it goes against the idée fixe that large numbers of people must travel the globe at all time and cross borders.

New Zealand is struggling just now with a new cluster of cases.

I'm going to note that Jordan has a hard time concealing his glee at New Zealand's new COVID problems, which in this thread he has mentioned three separate times. In fact, in this incarnation he is "Waitangi," an allusion to New Zealand history. It's almost as if he is obsessed by Prime Minister Ardern's perplexity.

Which answers the question what ever happened to old Herr Schadenfreude? After the Americans colonized the UK, Australia and New Zealand, he relocated to Schloss Alberta.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2020 03:25AM by Lot's Wife.

LW, you spotting all of Jordan’s aliases reminds me of when my sister-in-law and I used to call and try to fool each other with disguised voices. Fun times. She Always! knew it was me!

Oh, my gosh! I just figured out your identity! You’re my long-lost sister-in-law !

Might as well give up, Jordan.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2020 12:19PM by kathleen.

I would know I am not capable, that someone else would do a better job, and I wouldn't want to do it anyway.

I think someone has already claimed most of that stance but they are taking it.

And this is why we don't let 15-year-olds craft public policy.