It is a current Mormon doctrine that men can be sealed to multiple women in the case of spousal death or civil divorce but how widespread is the belief that women who were died and never married were destined to become polygamous wives?

I heard the idea several times but I don't think it's an official doctrine. Has anyone else heard that belief?

I was taught this in YW in the late 1990s/early 2000s. It was always part of the temple marriage lesson. You know, the one where they tell you it is better to stay single than marry outside the temple because you can still be sealed to a worthy priesthood holder in the afterlife.

Maybe they didn't teach the YM that, but we definitely got that lesson at least twice a year.

What was your reaction to that? I would think the idea of having to become a plural wife if I was an unmarried woman would be horrifying. Or did you not think things out that far? I realize in retrospect just how many times I stopped considering the implications of various things I was taught in church.

I was raised in the church, so I had heard about polygamy from the time I was born. I can't remember when I first heard it, but I always knew about polygamy in heaven, so I was either going to find a righteous priesthood holder to marry and after we died he would have other wives, or I would end up single and be assigned as someone's wife in the afterlife. I remember one of my YW leaders teaching that we needed to cultivate strong relationships with our mothers/grandmothers/sisters because our husbands would be too busy in heaven and we wouldn't be hanging out with them. We would be with our female relatives. For someone with a toxic mother, this caused me more heartache than the idea that my husband would have other wives in heaven

Yes, I was taught that.

My old long dead never-married aunt said she had arranged to become a wife of Ernie Wilkinson (old BYU president) in the afterlife. She had worked for him for years. Apparently they thought it would be a good plan so she wouldn't end up with just anyone as a 2nd or 3rd or 4th wife.

Honestly, you can't make this stuff up.

I have read about women sealing themselves to Young and Smith. I didn't realize it was going on into the latter part of the 20th century.

Do you know if she actually did it? I assume it was after he and his actual wife had died? Did the wife even know about it?

Rumor has it they were all supposed to follow up in the afterlife to arrange this.

To my knowledge, nothing was officially done while any of them were alive. I have not seen or heard of any records showing the work for this was done in the temple. But, with my wacky relatives, I wouldn't put it past them to do it by proxy.

Marriage to Ernie Wilkinson.

Who would she choose if given the obvious option: J. Edgar Hoover?

Carla Kelly's "Borrowed Light," published 2011.

It wasn't bad. She writes well, and she captured 1900 Wyoming and Salt Lake City very well. But it did employ the basic Romance plot points, so...yuch...

Now, my point: there was a spinster aunt in it, a dynamic character who was very active in Relief Society and other philanthropic activities. Intelligent, cultured, quite independent. Good for her.

This character stated she wasn't concerned about matrimony, because when she died, Heavenly Father would find an ideal spouse for her to spend eternity with. So here's celestial polygamy presented in a well-received novel. But this brings up a question: who is/are the deciding party(ies) in these arrangements? Elohim? the man? the woman? how much say does she have in all this? Metaphysical minds want to know!

In the CK, when a man's omnishaphone rings, he knows it's another ghawd, 'cause no woman will have a man's omnishaphone number. "Don't call me; I'll call you..."

Enjoy voting in earthly elections, ladies, because you ain't voting in the Eternities!

Every day will be YOUR lord's day; yeah, breakfast in bed for him, when it's your turn!

Heaven is a man's world!

On the fun side it was often commented in my circles that unmarried women would join Moroni's band. A play on words as Moroni plays a trumpet and of course anyone sealed to him would be in his band.

Historically I am aware of several incidents where women were sealed post mortem to men. Case in point a neighbor had her sister sealed to her husband. The sister died single after a car crash. I believe the church has since stopped that practice abd shelved the problem to the standard it will all work out in the millennium box.

Doctrine wise. I was at a stake conference in the 70s where the general authority calmed the worries of the spinsters and spinsters to be by stating their eternal spouse may have lived thousands of years ago or may not be born until after they die. Since as spirits we knew each other and developed relationships, we just weren't born in the same century. Again it will all work out in the millennium.

Heartless Wrote:
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>
> Historically I am aware of several incidents where
> women were sealed post mortem to men. Case in
> point a neighbor had her sister sealed to her
> husband. The sister died single after a car crash.
> I believe the church has since stopped that
> practice and shelved the problem to the standard
> it will all work out in the millennium box..

Heartless, that fascinates me! I'd be interested in any details you can provide. First, 1) when did this occur and 2) you know when it was discontinued 3) was there explicit doctrinal statements or guidance and especially 4) what can you tell me about the temple ceremony. Did a woman stand in for the deceased woman in the sealing room? Did they repeat the LDS marriage covenant, adding "who is dead," like they do with proxy baptism and endowments? It seems to me the husband (still living) participates for and on his own behalf, while a stand-in does for the deceased "bride."

Do I have that right?

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Heartless Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Historically I am aware of several incidents
> where
> > women were sealed post mortem to men. Case in
> > point a neighbor had her sister sealed to her
> > husband. The sister died single after a car
> crash.
> > I believe the church has since stopped that
> > practice and shelved the problem to the
> standard
> > it will all work out in the millennium box..
>
> Heartless, that fascinates me! I'd be interested
> in any details you can provide.

1) when did this occur

The ceremonies would have occured in the 50s or early 60s. I was made aware of it in the late 60s.


2) you know when it was discontinued

No. I assume correlation put an end to it.

3) was there explicit doctrinal statements or guidance

I know it was more common from the 1880s until maybe the 1920s.

Wilford Woodruff had hundreds of deceased brides sealed to him.
The instances I am aware of involved exclusively dead brides.

A couple engaged to be married but she dies shortly before the wedding.

A young woman taken in an accident or by illness and family members petitioning (I assume the first presidency) for her to be sealed to her sisters or friends husband.


4) what can you tell me about the temple ceremony. Did a woman
stand in for the deceased woman in the sealing room?

In cases I am aware of, the wife of the man or in the case of him having no wife the mother of the bride, stood proxy.

> Did they repeat the LDS marriage covenant,adding "who is dead," like they do with proxy baptism and endowments? It seems to me the husband

I can only comment on my own case where the who is dead was used to seal my first wife to me before they'd allow me to be sealed to my then current wife.

Heartless Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
>
> The ceremonies would have occurred in the 50s or
> early 60s. I was made aware of it in the late
> 60s.
>
That's very interesting and useful. I imagine most 21st Century Mormons know nothing of this.

> 2) you know when it was discontinued?
> No. I assume correlation put an end to it.

That would put in the 1970s, if I understand correctly. So there may have been some lingering posthumous sealings in the late 60s, early 70s perhaps?
>
> 3) Wilford Woodruff had hundreds of deceased brides
> sealed to him.
> The instances I am aware of involved exclusively
> dead brides.

That is really morbid! Read the phrase aloud, "Exclusively dead brides." To quote our dear Cl2, "ICH!"
>
>
> 4) ... I can only comment on my own case where the one who is
> dead was used to seal my first wife to me before
> they'd allow me to be sealed to my then current
> wife.

I'm a little confused. If you would explain again, carefully, who was being married to whom and their relationships. What throws me is "...my own case where the one who is dead was used to seal my first wife..."

Do you mean your first wife was deceased and not temple-sealed prior to a second marriage? If you'd be so kind...

Yes. My first wife was non LDS and passed away early in our marriage.

A few years later I remarried to an inactive mormon overseas. We didn't get sealed until about 5 years later. We were on a visit to Utah and she wanted a temple sealing.

The temple president found out I had previously been married and rushed my first wife through as what was then called a family name. Basically assigned her name to my elderly aunt who worked at the temple who did the whole anointing, endowment and sealing in one day. I met her for the endowment session and sealing where my aunt stood proxy for my deceased wife.

The next day I went through the endowment with my living wife followed by the sealing.

I wasn't comfortable having work done for my first wife but caved in to make things as smooth as possible.

I can easily understand how spiritually weird and psychologically taxing that situation was. That also meant that your then-current wife was Wife #2 in the afterlife. Compounding all this, she complied with (or requested?) all this to make her marriage to you right in the ecclesiastical sense.

Quite a while ago I came across a quote, attributed to BY, to the effect that "a man with 10 wives is 10 times more likely to make the CK than a man with just one or two." (Brings to mind your tidbit on Wilford Woodruff, no?). I've searched through google and LDS.com for confirmation to no avail, and asked on this board a few times--likewise, nothing. Yet it's an intriguing concept, and seems to fit in with 19th Century Mormonism. I'd love to find out if there's historical substance behind that 3rd- or 4th-hand story.

this was aimed at the 'Sweet Spirits', gals who were deemed less than attractive to a 'worthy PH holder'...

What a stigma to attach to a single gal in her mid-20's +

As I've stated before, I'd rather be with my gay husband, be celibate, and share him with other men than be with a man with many wives.

As a joke, I asked my sister's husband about polygamy. My sister is DEAD SET against it. She still goes to church and I don't know why as she is angrier and angrier at it. But I was teasing him and said, "Well, what about me, not even for me?" He said very seriously NO! Not like I'd ever consider it. Ick.

My great grandmother and her sister were married to my great grandfather.

I don't know what to conclude about this story...

My very first companion, in the SLC Mission Home, and with whom I shared a double bed for a week, died two-and-a-half years after coming home from the mission. He made AP, thanks to my training. (hahahahaha!)

He died in 1970, in an auto accident in St. George. His G/F was driving a VW bug and the car hit a freeway bridge abutment. No seatbelts! Imagínase! He apparently hit the vertical concrete abutment, while her path through the windshield was clear, but undoubtedly, painful sailing...

An RfMer, whose S/N I don't recall, knew the family, and told me/us that she never married and finally was successful in being sealed to her life's love.

That's a lot of a faith on her part! I don't mind that she made that choice but it's crazy that other human beings would think good thoughts about that choice.

seen what guys were available in the singles wards and thought this was the best route!

I think I will pass on this "generous" offer. lol

Back in my TBM days, I told one of our daughters ( she was approaching the danger age of 19 and not engaged yet) that if she didn’t get married in this life, she would probably meet and marry a hunky Stripling Warrior in the next life.
Ugghhh!!

Ewwwwww.

C'mon, Dagny! Why give in to some smarmy RM when you can have a choice Stripling Warrior! You've seen the paintings!!!

I married a smarmy RM. You make it sound like picking out a steak.

I didn't know being a second wife to a Stripling Warrior was an option!

Besides, I thought strippers were nasty back then. :-/

I have always found polygamy disgusting and actually what kept my critical thinking alive as a TBM besides the outright pharisee culture.

Polygamy is sad from all perspectives:

Men - being good to have sex with multiple women? yes what a trial of their faith? Also always having the adulterous fly in the ointment so to speak even if you are happy with monogamy and want to be faithful (you know what the next level is in mormonism)

Women - knowing you are second class until someone better comes along or never being good enough in this life so your only hope is being treated as cattle one day? Yes just continue to have hope

Kids - not getting to see your dad that often unless its for a group photo in the Eternal Church News? or even worse not knowing when he might be your husband or when you will be wedded out to some polygamous old dude, such is the dynamics of mormon posthumous polygamy

One of my LDS friends who has never married thinks she'll find herself a Captain Moroni type to marry on the other side of the Veil. Maybe even the captain himself would be great.

Your friend's hopes mirrors the spinster aunt character I described. Incidentally, that character seemed to be awfully liberated--hip, even--for a turn-of-the-20th-Century unmarried Mormon woman.

I my repeat my question on agency in posthumous arrangements. Sure, it "will all work out in the CK," but was there ever any discussion (understanding there's no specific doctrine) about who gets to decide what? Elohim? the men? The women? Some combination of them all?

As far as I was ever told (the forgetting of mormon doctrine when it is inconvenient is above my pay grade) is that the women and men will get to choose to enter into polygamous relationships after death, meaning a man and wife can choose to not only enter into a polygamous marriage (man + multiple women) but also can switch to another such union (I guess they don't call it divorce there since they avoid that word here)

On a psychological level why every woman wouldn't go to be with Joseph Smith or Brigham Young is beyond me but in that case I guess would have to do with their stamina and their secretary being able to book enough appointments to have sex with each wife. The practical workings is where polygamy falls all apart. It always has. The only other explanation is they have become gods and can have sex anywhere and everywhere at once. Therein lies a huge PR problem of having a Mormon God who is omni-sexual.