Recovery Board
: RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
As Nietzsche's Zarathustra descended from his ascetic life of solitude in his mountain cave he happened upon a preacher who extolled the virtues of an invisible God. Zarathustra replied, "When Zarathustra heard these words, he saluted the saint and said "What should I have to give you! But let me go quickly that I take nothing from you!" And thus they parted from one another, the old man and Zarathustra, laughing as two boys laugh.
But when Zarathustra was alone, he spoke thus to his heart: "Could it be possible! This old saint has not heard in his forest that God is dead!"
On 9-11 the first thing I said to myself in response was,"Neitzsche was right. God is dead."
I felt all alone in the world.
No more expectations of a Savior coming to save us from ourselves. No more good vs. evil. No more us vs.them. Just us.
All of us in the same boat, needlessly divided by superficial, meaningless tribalism.
It was a lonely, dark, smoldering hole to inhabit. I couldn't remain there long. I had to climb out on my own. I reached for the closest life ring, anything that would float. I reached deep down for anything of substance anything real. I remembered the words of a wise man, "Be the change you want to see in the world." Like it was the first time I'd heard them and decided they were true.
I wanted to see less hate and more love. So I loved.
I wanted to see less war and more peace. So I sought to become a peacemaker.
I wanted to see less tribalism and more unity, so I resigned my membership in any kind of tribe, including the one I inherited from 5 generations before me.
I wanted my kids to be free to determine their own destinies, and realities so I quit pretending fairy tales and bogus myths were real.
But had I been as wise as Zarathustra, I wouldn't have taken away the faith of my loved ones, but given them hope for a better, more healthy, orderly and beautiful future.
This world now, 19yrs later, is not what I dreamed or hoped.
20yrs after mapping the human genome and doing the math, we are still fighting and dying in the streets of the city I call home, over "Black Lives Matter." Vs. "Proud Boys" like a video game you can never actually ein.
Every day the city burns with hate.
Every night it burns in flames.
Civil War is upon us.
Tearing us apart
Right limb from Left.
Over what?
Over 1/10th of 1% of our DNA that makes us diverse.
Which we need to celebrate daily because without it we all die from the first virus that killed one of us would kill all of us.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2020 03:09PM by schrodingerscat.
But when Zarathustra was alone, he spoke thus to his heart: "Could it be possible! This old saint has not heard in his forest that God is dead!"
On 9-11 the first thing I said to myself in response was,"Neitzsche was right. God is dead."
I felt all alone in the world.
No more expectations of a Savior coming to save us from ourselves. No more good vs. evil. No more us vs.them. Just us.
All of us in the same boat, needlessly divided by superficial, meaningless tribalism.
It was a lonely, dark, smoldering hole to inhabit. I couldn't remain there long. I had to climb out on my own. I reached for the closest life ring, anything that would float. I reached deep down for anything of substance anything real. I remembered the words of a wise man, "Be the change you want to see in the world." Like it was the first time I'd heard them and decided they were true.
I wanted to see less hate and more love. So I loved.
I wanted to see less war and more peace. So I sought to become a peacemaker.
I wanted to see less tribalism and more unity, so I resigned my membership in any kind of tribe, including the one I inherited from 5 generations before me.
I wanted my kids to be free to determine their own destinies, and realities so I quit pretending fairy tales and bogus myths were real.
But had I been as wise as Zarathustra, I wouldn't have taken away the faith of my loved ones, but given them hope for a better, more healthy, orderly and beautiful future.
This world now, 19yrs later, is not what I dreamed or hoped.
20yrs after mapping the human genome and doing the math, we are still fighting and dying in the streets of the city I call home, over "Black Lives Matter." Vs. "Proud Boys" like a video game you can never actually ein.
Every day the city burns with hate.
Every night it burns in flames.
Civil War is upon us.
Tearing us apart
Right limb from Left.
Over what?
Over 1/10th of 1% of our DNA that makes us diverse.
Which we need to celebrate daily because without it we all die from the first virus that killed one of us would kill all of us.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2020 03:09PM by schrodingerscat.
What channel were you watching on 9/11?
elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What channel were you watching on 9/11?
I wasnt watching a channel. I was listening to the same channel I always listen to on my way to work, NPR, which I have listened to every morning for 25 years prior to 9-11 and 19yrs since.
-------------------------------------------------------
> What channel were you watching on 9/11?
I wasnt watching a channel. I was listening to the same channel I always listen to on my way to work, NPR, which I have listened to every morning for 25 years prior to 9-11 and 19yrs since.
A make believe character cannot be dead.
Was he/she/it ever alive?
Lethbridge Reprobate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was he/she/it ever alive?
It depends upon you definition of the word god, which Neitzsche never bothers to do.
It also depends upon definition of the word, alive.
I a virus 'alive" ?
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was he/she/it ever alive?
It depends upon you definition of the word god, which Neitzsche never bothers to do.
It also depends upon definition of the word, alive.
I a virus 'alive" ?
He did define God. God is the mission, the vision, of a culture.
The European God died in the late 19th century when people rejected anything but superficial Christianity and had not yet evolved a new purpose, a new animating vision.
The European God died in the late 19th century when people rejected anything but superficial Christianity and had not yet evolved a new purpose, a new animating vision.
Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He did define God. God is the mission, the
> vision, of a culture.
>
> The European God died in the late 19th century
> when people rejected anything but superficial
> Christianity and had not yet evolved a new
> purpose, a new animating vision.
Interesting, never heard that before. Where did you read that, just curious.
"As an atheist, Nietzsche did not believe in God. Thus, he did not believe that God had once existed but was now “dead.”—Pretty obvious.
What Nietzsche was referring to by “God is dead” is the general decline of Christianity that was taking place (and is still taking place, depending on who you ask) in the Western world. He explains “God is dead” later on in The Gay Science: “the belief in the Christian God has become unbelievable.”
https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/what-did-nietzsche-mean-god-dead/
Personally I don't think he was talking about just the Christian God, but all gods. All notions of an invisible metaphysical super human (or woman) in the sky who grants wishes to his/her obedient children and punishes those who disobey Him/her/it.
"God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?
— Nietzsche, The Gay Science, Section 125, tr. Walter Kaufmann
"When one gives up the Christian faith, one pulls the right to Christian morality out from under one's feet. This morality is by no means self-evident ... By breaking one main concept out of Christianity, the faith in God, one breaks the whole: nothing necessary remains in one's hands."
Twilight of the Idols, Expeditions of an Untimely Man, sect. 5
What's ironic is that by ripping the 'right to Christian morality out from under the feet' of Europeans, civilization ended up with a morality based upon the theory of evolution, Eugenics, Fascism and Communism.
-------------------------------------------------------
> He did define God. God is the mission, the
> vision, of a culture.
>
> The European God died in the late 19th century
> when people rejected anything but superficial
> Christianity and had not yet evolved a new
> purpose, a new animating vision.
Interesting, never heard that before. Where did you read that, just curious.
"As an atheist, Nietzsche did not believe in God. Thus, he did not believe that God had once existed but was now “dead.”—Pretty obvious.
What Nietzsche was referring to by “God is dead” is the general decline of Christianity that was taking place (and is still taking place, depending on who you ask) in the Western world. He explains “God is dead” later on in The Gay Science: “the belief in the Christian God has become unbelievable.”
https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/what-did-nietzsche-mean-god-dead/
Personally I don't think he was talking about just the Christian God, but all gods. All notions of an invisible metaphysical super human (or woman) in the sky who grants wishes to his/her obedient children and punishes those who disobey Him/her/it.
"God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?
— Nietzsche, The Gay Science, Section 125, tr. Walter Kaufmann
"When one gives up the Christian faith, one pulls the right to Christian morality out from under one's feet. This morality is by no means self-evident ... By breaking one main concept out of Christianity, the faith in God, one breaks the whole: nothing necessary remains in one's hands."
Twilight of the Idols, Expeditions of an Untimely Man, sect. 5
What's ironic is that by ripping the 'right to Christian morality out from under the feet' of Europeans, civilization ended up with a morality based upon the theory of evolution, Eugenics, Fascism and Communism.
Nietzsche was an atheist in a literal sense. But he thought that societies had cultural visions, cultural missions, that inspired them. He thought "supermen" created those religions, some of which raised the cultural and ethical levels of civilizations and even humanity. In his lexicon, the "superman" was effectively the prophet announcing the advent of a new God.
His view was that Jesus had been such a superman but that the religion was subsequently taken over by the enemies of individual and communal attainment, the shepherds of the sheep mentality; and, in any event, had Christianity had lost its power over Europe by his day. That's what he meant when he said God is dead--both the cultural mission of Europe and the Judeao-Christian deity. He wanted a new superman, a Zarathustra, to launch a new cultural mission, an inevitably atheistic system of thought (religion in his metaphorical usage) that raised people to a higher level.
You are right about Communism and Fascism. Nietzsche was not anti-Semitic (although some of his metaphorical rhetoric against the Judeao-Christian religion assuredly was) and he viewed both Communism and nationalism as movements for sheep. In (I think) Beyond Good and Evil he said that if something better didn't materialize first, herd religions would arise in Russia and Germany.
So he was literally an atheist but thought that "God" was a great metaphor for an uplifting and motivating artistic and cultural vision.
His view was that Jesus had been such a superman but that the religion was subsequently taken over by the enemies of individual and communal attainment, the shepherds of the sheep mentality; and, in any event, had Christianity had lost its power over Europe by his day. That's what he meant when he said God is dead--both the cultural mission of Europe and the Judeao-Christian deity. He wanted a new superman, a Zarathustra, to launch a new cultural mission, an inevitably atheistic system of thought (religion in his metaphorical usage) that raised people to a higher level.
You are right about Communism and Fascism. Nietzsche was not anti-Semitic (although some of his metaphorical rhetoric against the Judeao-Christian religion assuredly was) and he viewed both Communism and nationalism as movements for sheep. In (I think) Beyond Good and Evil he said that if something better didn't materialize first, herd religions would arise in Russia and Germany.
So he was literally an atheist but thought that "God" was a great metaphor for an uplifting and motivating artistic and cultural vision.
...so ghawd as a series of rock stars?
No, no, no.
God is a series of top 10 hits. God's prophets are the Rock Stars.
Hence Zarathustra and the Zebops.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2020 06:31PM by Lot's Wife.
God is a series of top 10 hits. God's prophets are the Rock Stars.
Hence Zarathustra and the Zebops.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2020 06:31PM by Lot's Wife.
+schrodingerscat:
“What's ironic is that by ripping the 'right to Christian morality out from under the feet' of Europeans, civilization ended up with a morality based upon the theory of evolution, Eugenics, Fascism and Communism.”
==There is no morality in the theory of evolution, if that is what you are trying to say.
The theory of evolution is just a description of how nature operates.
I heard some guy based his morality on the theory of gravity. Find a fat guy and start orbiting him. Anyone who doesn’t obey the rule, kill him.
Eugenics is based on artificial selection, a portion of the theory of Evolution:
Kill off the instances that have an undesirable genetic traits. Keep the beautiful and intelligent people.
Or damage the genitals of undesirable people.
But why is this necessary? Who is going to do farming, street sweeping, chimney sweeping?
If we could all look like supermodels or be like Arnold Swazenagers and be geniuses at the same time, that would be great. Perhaps we could achieve that through other means.
What’s so great about christian morality?
Humanism is superior to christian morality. We can give reasonable reasons for what rules are moral and what is not.
~~~~iceman9090
“What's ironic is that by ripping the 'right to Christian morality out from under the feet' of Europeans, civilization ended up with a morality based upon the theory of evolution, Eugenics, Fascism and Communism.”
==There is no morality in the theory of evolution, if that is what you are trying to say.
The theory of evolution is just a description of how nature operates.
I heard some guy based his morality on the theory of gravity. Find a fat guy and start orbiting him. Anyone who doesn’t obey the rule, kill him.
Eugenics is based on artificial selection, a portion of the theory of Evolution:
Kill off the instances that have an undesirable genetic traits. Keep the beautiful and intelligent people.
Or damage the genitals of undesirable people.
But why is this necessary? Who is going to do farming, street sweeping, chimney sweeping?
If we could all look like supermodels or be like Arnold Swazenagers and be geniuses at the same time, that would be great. Perhaps we could achieve that through other means.
What’s so great about christian morality?
Humanism is superior to christian morality. We can give reasonable reasons for what rules are moral and what is not.
~~~~iceman9090
Actually, I'm feeling much better today. Anyone need me to find their car keys?
Send money.
Send money.
I haven't laughed this hard since Dumbkirk.
+schrodingerscat:
You seem to be talking about this stuff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thus_Spoke_Zarathustra
“Thus Spoke Zarathustra: A Book for All and None (German: Also sprach Zarathustra: Ein Buch für Alle und Keinen, also translated as Thus Spake Zarathustra) is a philosophical novel by German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche, composed in four parts written and published between 1883 and 1885.[i] Much of the work deals with ideas such as the "eternal recurrence of the same," the parable on the "death of God," and the "prophecy" of the Übermensch, which were first introduced in The Gay Science.[1] Nietzsche himself considered Zarathustra to be his masterpiece.“
~~~~iceman9090
You seem to be talking about this stuff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thus_Spoke_Zarathustra
“Thus Spoke Zarathustra: A Book for All and None (German: Also sprach Zarathustra: Ein Buch für Alle und Keinen, also translated as Thus Spake Zarathustra) is a philosophical novel by German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche, composed in four parts written and published between 1883 and 1885.[i] Much of the work deals with ideas such as the "eternal recurrence of the same," the parable on the "death of God," and the "prophecy" of the Übermensch, which were first introduced in The Gay Science.[1] Nietzsche himself considered Zarathustra to be his masterpiece.“
~~~~iceman9090