ATTENTION-INQUISITIVENESS-SELF ESTEEM
My attention and inquisitiveness range far from the narrow confines of organized religion.
I cannot spend 24/7 wrapped up in a restrictive religion without becoming mentally warped and unable to venture into the wonderful world of open minded imagery surrounding me.
I can understand and accept how some people, being insecure in their own person,can come to rely on the third person source for their self-esteem. For these people it is only from external sourcing that they can gain a modicum of this esteem.
What steps can be taken to resolve this self-esteem issue? In my opinion this issue can only be resolved internally. This is accomplished by the same methodology used by the theological, political, and social societies. The constant repetitive reinsertion of semantically significant data into the permanent storage facility of the brain!
The following is my opinion and although it is open to challenge it is nevertheless still my opinion.
The total mind control which is the ambition of the ecclesiastical hierarchy of many theological organizations borders on, if not paramount to, a cult like method of operation. So self esteem becomes permanently attached to the group. We then see a slave/owner relationship develop in which the member has no say in any life choices.
This mentality can often be seen in the proselyting of evangelical missionaries. Many times radicalism replaces reason and the belief that the more loudly you scream the more right you are totally consumes the prosyliter.
What do you think?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2020 09:30PM by thedesertrat1.

thedesertrat1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ATTENTION-INQUISITIVENESS-SELF ESTEEM
> My attention and inquisitiveness range far from
> the narrow confines of organized religion.

I believe this is an important factor in people looking beyond any "narrow confines" they grew up with and forming their own independent morals and views. In a religion like Mormonism, for example, which tends to hold its children tightly within its somewhat isolated group, a person can be well into young adulthood before taking a breath and looking around and re-evaluating the lessons and lifestyle they were taught by parents and church leaders. This happens in many of the more isolationist-type groups too, of course. Perhaps that helps explain why it may be only during their church mission that young Mormons ask more questions, see different viewpoints and find reasons for any disquiet they may have felt growing up in the church. For some, it is a pleasant release to realize that there's a big wide world out there and they are free to make their own choices. It seems natural to follow one's parents/family growing up - what choices are there really for kids and teens - but at some point as maturity increases hopefully people will formulate an independent set of values, not dependent on their parents' or the faith (or otherwise) in which they were brought up. Then their life's path will more likely be one they have freely chosen. Of course, as we see with ex-Mormons (as well as others who leave behind a more fundamentalist type of upbringing), getting free of certain mindsets and re-learning, in a sense, even the basics of a moderate approach to life, it's not easy or instantaneous to shed the early influences of parents and religious leaders. Definitely it's worth looking beyond that and formulating one's own take on life after many questions, some independent research and a bit of life experience.

> I can understand and accept how some people,
> being insecure in their own person,can come to
> rely on the third person source for their
> self-esteem. For these people it is only from
> external sourcing that they can gain a modicum of
> this esteem.

I don't think it's a self-esteem issue but rather the often profound impact of early teachings as well as inculcation when it comes to fundy religion and other similar influences. You can't help the circumstances into which you were born or to whom, obviously, but a mentally healthy individual gradually matures in due course and differentiates from their familial influences, such as parents obviously, starting to question and evaluate the values and beliefs they've been taught. Some manage to get there sooner than others. A lot depends on one's personality type and perhaps degree of curiosity as well as a myriad of other personal and life factors.


> What steps can be taken to resolve this
> self-esteem issue?

Again, I don't see it necessarily as a self-esteem issue but hopefully, as above, a young person will embark on some independent exploration of the world and come to form their own values and ambitions independent of early influences if such are not in line with their own wishes, talents and goals.


> The total mind control which is the ambition of
> the ecclesiastical hierarchy of many theological
> organizations borders on, if not paramount to, a
> cult like method of operation.

Of course, they wouldn't consider it "mind control" but rather "truth" (a la the JWs, a group I fell into while doing my own exploring as a teen). Beware, I have said ever since then, of any group that seeks to isolate you from your family and the world in general. Of course, it's a gradual process and you may get in deep before realizing all the ramifications. My parents didn't like it, at all, that I was getting friendly with JWs, but they decided the best course was not to push me to avoid them. So, yeah. I ended up baptized and proselytizing in Quebec before I realized I didn't believe in the group's end times beliefs and isolationist philosophy. They went so far as to advise me I shouldn't return home to see my father and help my family after Dad had suffered a serious accident that nearly claimed his life, leaving my mom and young sibs taking unreliable public transit a fair distance daily to visit him in hospital, as well as being stuck in the back of beyond where they lived at the time (with no close bus service and Mom didn't drive), making shopping and getting to school very difficult. Fortunately, I considered it a given that I would obviously help my mom and sibs as well as be there for my dad and I ignored the JW injunctions to carry on knocking on doors to preach to unwilling captive householders in favour of taking the next flight home to be with my family. I am grateful to the universe, or whoever, or whatever, or my parents themselves, for giving me the insight and heart to do the right thing instead of mindlessly following the egregious religious "value" to ignore my family and keep bothering the French-speaking Catholic people in a tiny Quebec village who had zero interest in converting to the WatchTower Society and having watch parties for Armageddon, imminently due according to the JWs (for 100 years now!)

I resisted for many years referring to the JWs or the Mormons or similar offshoot Christian-style belief systems as cults but now I can see why that's how some people refer to them. Many of their techniques are suspect and drive people and families apart rather than bringing them together. I don't believe that is the reason for religion. They would disagree with me on that.


> Many times radicalism replaces reason and the belief
> that the more loudly you scream the more right you
> are totally consumes the prosyliter.

I agree with your point that reason can be overcome once a person crosses the line into unthinking rote belief (which can become radical, as you note).

I think the rational response to life is to always question and think and weigh all available facts before arriving at a conclusion about the important things at least. Also, be ready to take in new information and change your mind if indicated.

I'm glad to read of your "progress" in terms of recovering from the fundamentalist aspects of your former beliefs, desertrat. How's it going?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2020 02:21PM by Nightingale.

When I resigned from the church, I was angry with God. I figured that he could send me to the telestial kingdom or to outer darkness if he wanted to. But I decided that in any event he lacked the power to force me to accept injustices as fairness, no matter what he did. No matter what the results would be, I still would decide what I think is right and wrong and to hell with him if he didn't agree with me.

Then one day several months later, I realized that maybe the church wasn't true. Maybe God wasn't to blame, but the church was to blame. That had not occurred to me before. So I transferred the blame from God to the church. But something was different after that. If I wouldn't be bullied by God himself, I surely wasn't about to be bullied by anyone who fraudulently claims to represent him. So I patched things up with god and moved forward.

I'll always respect my earthly father with a reverence and respect that no one else on earth would ever receive from me. But if he were to ever cross my boundaries badly enough, I would stand my ground and refuse to cooperate. He is a good man and wouldn't do that. We should have the same relationship with our creator and the sense of self and justice to do the same if necessary. There are some things worse than death, the telestial kingdom, or even outer darkness. After I got that, it was infinitely easier to reject the crap that mormonism dishes out and still have a healthy sense of faith in god.